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#173525 - 09/17/12 09:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ?
FIVESTRING Offline
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Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 91
Loc: EAST TN
is there a way to make the instrument in RealTracks play the exact melody that you want ? ?
SITUATION: i've a song loaded and am using style: GEORGE ctry bal w george Fiddle (85 RS)
what i'd like to do is have this RealTracks fiddle play a melody(turnaround)that i designate -
not the background fills that it normally plays. i've tried entering the melody with my keyboards
in to the melody track, open the melody track menu > edit melody track > move to soloist track, but
the soloist track does not play back the RealTrack fiddle - it plays violin (41) from the GS wave-
table.

is there a way to have the soloist track play the melody that i enter with the RealTracks fiddle used in the style listed above (George ctry bal . . .) ? ? maybe moving the melody entered, from the melody track to the soloist track isn't the right approach, maybe there's another way - maybe it can't be done at all.

any help app

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#173526 - 09/17/12 09:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: FIVESTRING]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13330
Loc: Australia
Hi Fivestring,

Realtracks are unable to play notes specified by a user. This is because Realtracks are not assembled from single notes. They are actual live recordings. What BIAB does is to slice and splice sections of these recordings to assemble a suitable track based on the entered chord structure.

Regards,
Noel
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#173527 - 09/17/12 11:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: Noel96]
FIVESTRING Offline
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Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 91
Loc: EAST TN
many tks noel - now i can quit beating a dead horse

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#173528 - 09/17/12 12:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: FIVESTRING]
CountryTrash Offline
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Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 375
Loc: Benoni, South Africa
Or the answer software developers normallly give ...."not in the current version!"
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#173529 - 09/17/12 02:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: FIVESTRING]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Realtracks are so misunderstood.

If you could make Realtracks play a specified melody line, then they would no longer BE Realtracks, that is already what we have with any MIDI synthesizer, samples of each note that can be told when to play. But that won't give all the subtle nuances that the Realtracks give because the Realtracks take PHRASES, not single notes of music that has already been recorded and rearrange them to fit your chord changes. Thus Realtracks can only play the phrases that were recorded in the first place.


--Mac
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#173530 - 09/17/12 03:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: Mac]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2175
someone told me they generate multiple tracks using a single Realtrack and then export all of them to their DAW where they splice various bits together to get more control over the final track. I know that wouldn't give the level of control the OP wants but it might help a little. I guess it would also add quite a bit of time to the process!

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#173531 - 09/18/12 03:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6506
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
JJJ you can definitely do it, because I've done it. We have all the tools in RB already. Pitch shift for one. Just expand the audio edit window, get familiar with what a note looks like as a waveform and start slicing it up. When you do that you will get pops and clicks if you don't know all about cross fade looping. But, and it's a very big but, you lose the live phrasing the original player put into that RT. All your doing is taking one note out of a bigger file. Oh wait, that sounds familiar doesn't it? Yeah, I hit a key on my Kurzweil and what do I hear? One note. That's called a synth. Oh wow, <Face palm>...damn that idea sounded so cool.

Just having some fun John. What you're hearing is the quality of the recording like the RT Sax soloist for example. You listen to the sax patch on a basic synth like the Coyote Wavetable and it sounds like crap. The sax's on my Kurz however sound great. A good synth uses high quality one note recordings done in a studio by top players just like the RT's. The very best ones with tons of memory use one recording per note so a sampled piano has 88 separate recordings per velocity layer and the good ones have multiple layers so you do the math. That takes a whole lot of memory. Cheaper synths may only have one or two layers for a given patch and they pitch shift one note to cover 3 or 4 keys so they only need maybe 30 recordings per layer, that requires much less memory which equals a cheaper keyboard or PC to play it. You get what you pay for with different synths.

This is the big deal with the new Supertracks btw. With a good synth, a midi Supertrack can definitely rival an RT in quality.

Bob
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#173532 - 09/18/12 05:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: jazzmammal]
Kevin Woolley Offline
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Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 831
Loc: Pietersburg, South Africa
This is just off the top of my head!! If the timing of the solo is about right - why not use Melodyne or something similar to get the melody you wish for.

Of course it may be more work than it's worth.


Kevin

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#173533 - 09/18/12 10:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: Kevin Woolley]
KeithS Offline
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 896
Loc: Mobile, Alabama
Quote:

- why not use Melodyne or something similar to get the melody you wish for.





Otherwise known as "The Cher Effect for instruments".
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#173534 - 09/18/12 05:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: KeithS]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
I have found that the best way to get exactly the notes you want in BiaB is to Record them using a MIDI Controller keyboard or other MIDI instrument that you can play and then assign that to a high quality MIDI synth of some sort.

When mixed with a few Realtracks and the Realdrums, the result is very striking and can sound realistic. Matter of fact, many listeners don't even realize that there is any MIDI involved.


--Mac
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#173535 - 09/18/12 07:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: jazzmammal]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2175
Quote:

JJJ you can definitely do it, because I've done it. We have all the tools in RB already. Pitch shift for one. Just expand the audio edit window, get familiar with what a note looks like as a waveform and start slicing it up. When you do that you will get pops and clicks if you don't know all about cross fade looping. But, and it's a very big but, you lose the live phrasing the original player put into that RT. All your doing is taking one note out of a bigger file. Oh wait, that sounds familiar doesn't it? Yeah, I hit a key on my Kurzweil and what do I hear? One note. That's called a synth. Oh wow, <Face palm>...damn that idea sounded so cool.

Just having some fun John. What you're hearing is the quality of the recording like the RT Sax soloist for example. You listen to the sax patch on a basic synth like the Coyote Wavetable and it sounds like crap. The sax's on my Kurz however sound great. A good synth uses high quality one note recordings done in a studio by top players just like the RT's. The very best ones with tons of memory use one recording per note so a sampled piano has 88 separate recordings per velocity layer and the good ones have multiple layers so you do the math. That takes a whole lot of memory. Cheaper synths may only have one or two layers for a given patch and they pitch shift one note to cover 3 or 4 keys so they only need maybe 30 recordings per layer, that requires much less memory which equals a cheaper keyboard or PC to play it. You get what you pay for with different synths.

This is the big deal with the new Supertracks btw. With a good synth, a midi Supertrack can definitely rival an RT in quality.

Bob




maybe I just haven't heard the right system but everything I've heard so far that was not RealTrack sounds like the circus just got to town!


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (09/18/12 07:05 PM)

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#173536 - 09/19/12 11:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
flatfoot Offline
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Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 2185
Loc: Sacramento CA
.
>>>...someone told me they generate multiple tracks using a single Realtrack and then export all of them to their DAW where they splice various bits together to get more control over the final track...>>>

It might have been me that said that. Here is an example of a song where I was able to find and edit real tracks to fit the melody I already had. It was largely serendipitous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg6gF9siJeg&feature=plcp

I beleive I used the "GEORGE" fiddle tracks used by the original poster. All the editing was done in Real Band.


Edited by flatfoot (09/19/12 11:19 PM)
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#173537 - 09/20/12 07:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: flatfoot]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5514
Loc: Chicago
Quote:

.
>>>...someone told me they generate multiple tracks using a single Realtrack and then export all of them to their DAW where they splice various bits together to get more control over the final track...>>>





I have done the same thing using a single RT with Melodyne in my DAW. Tedious and timeconsuming, and honestly, no way to make music. Learn to play or find someone who can and you will appreciate the effort and end results so much more.
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#173538 - 09/20/12 07:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5514
Loc: Chicago
Quote:

maybe I just haven't heard the right system but everything I've heard so far that was not RealTrack sounds like the circus just got to town!




A very common complaint with MIDI - 10 years ago! Tell us again what synth are you using?
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#173539 - 09/21/12 06:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: MusicStudent]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5514
Loc: Chicago
Here is the project done here oh so long ago.. unfortunately all the files have been lost,
. but some of the comments may provide insight.


http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...true#Post328145
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#173540 - 09/21/12 11:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: MusicStudent]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2175
Quote:

Quote:

maybe I just haven't heard the right system but everything I've heard so far that was not RealTrack sounds like the circus just got to town!




A very common complaint with MIDI - 10 years ago! Tell us again what synth are you using?




well, honestly, I don't know! I know there is a computer involved and Windows 7 and recently BIAB! And I know whatever sound card I have plays music from games real nice. Beyond that I know nothing and suspect I have the most basic of MIDI capabilities.

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#173541 - 09/22/12 12:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: KeithS]
jcspro40 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 830
Loc: Ohio-USA
Quote:

Quote:

- why not use Melodyne or something similar to get the melody you wish for.





Otherwise known as "The Cher Effect for instruments".





That was not Melodyne, that was Auto-Tune.....
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#173542 - 09/22/12 09:21 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5514
Loc: Chicago
Quote:

well, honestly, I don't know! I know there is a computer involved and Windows 7 and recently BIAB! And I know whatever sound card I have plays music from games real nice. Beyond that I know nothing and suspect I have the most basic of MIDI capabilities.




Free to try for 30 days, then the best $40 BIAB addon you can buy!

http://www.pgmusic.com/coyotefortedxi.htm
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#173543 - 09/22/12 04:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: MusicStudent]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2175
Quote:

Quote:

well, honestly, I don't know! I know there is a computer involved and Windows 7 and recently BIAB! And I know whatever sound card I have plays music from games real nice. Beyond that I know nothing and suspect I have the most basic of MIDI capabilities.




Free to try for 30 days, then the best $40 BIAB addon you can buy!

http://www.pgmusic.com/coyotefortedxi.htm




So, how would I compare this to non-coyote MIDI? Is there a sample song or something that uses only MIDI that I could then convert to this to hear the difference?

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#173544 - 09/22/12 04:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: use RealTracks fiddle to play melody that i designate ? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17327
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Samples to compare may be found here: http://www.pgmusic.com/dare-to-compare.htm
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