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When and why do you leave RealBand to use another sequencer - if you leave it at all.
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Joe I leave it to use the sequencer I've always used and got used to - Cubase or Reaper. Realband is great if that is all you want or have to use, but I find it quicker to work in Cubase as that is where I've always done my composing. Realband is the relatively new kid on the block here compared to Band In A Box. Mostly these days I generate realtracks straight from Band In A Box and transfer these to Cubase where I will cut and paste to achieve what I need. I will do the same with the new Midi Supertracks. Any vocals or instrumental overdubs I usually do in Cubase also. Some of my songs can be found at :- My SoundClick page Kevin 
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There are 2 reasons I never liked Real Band or Power Tracks Pro....lack of VST effect support and the GUI. I have a good amount invested in VST effects and want to use them darn it! LOL
I got into a workflow of writing the song, using BiaB to create the backing tracks I need, rendering them down to .wav files, and then importing them into my DAW where I find it a LOT easier to work with.
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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As I work primarily in MIDI I haven't done more than poke a stick at RB. RB works well as far as it goes, but I think it lacks certain automation and effects capabilities which I am used to. Workflow used to be BIAB 200x ported into Propellerhead Reason 3, then Rewired into Steinberg Nuendo (Cubase's big brother). Now that Reason 6+ has incorporated audio it has become my primary sequencer. Theoretically I can do things in two steps instead of three. There are various limitations which necessitate the use of more than a particular set of software. PG products don't have Rewire and only partially implement VST technology. Reason functions as a Rewire slave only and doesn't use VST at all. My old version of Nuendo won't run on my new DAW (dongle won't fit, and it may not run on a 64-bit system anyway). Now that I have BIAB/RB 2012.5 I can see myself making more use of RB for drums, but I still need Reason for its soft synth and advanced effects capabilities. (That MIDI thing, don't y'know.) I'll try to stick to PG products and Reason for a while, but if I ever truly need Rewire I'll have to include Reaper or another Rewire-equipped sequencer. If you're curious about what Rewire is and why it is important to me, check out this brief article on the Propellerhead website. It has been on the PG Wishlist for some time. I think that once you grok it you'll want it too.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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The key word to this discussion is "composing". Real Band provides me the backup band so I don't have to bring people in. (I don't like having people in my house.) All the plugins I really use are the ones that came with Sonar and Izotope Ozone, and I can use those in Real Band on the master bus. When I DO leave RB I go to Sonar but that is only after the RB stuff is saved to a stereo wav file and I am just tweaking it with Ozone.
I play almost nothing live anymore, and I define "composing" as the creation of the song. Once it is "composed", adding sweetening tracks are not "composing" anymore in my mind. It's already written and I am just filling it out. This is the reason I love RB. I can add live tracks just as easily in RB as Sonar. RB is ready to rehearse at a moment's notice when I am since it lives right in my house. It never shows up late and/or drunk, and I only had to pay it once. Great tool for moving stuff from napkins and envelopes and voice mails I sent myself into viable, tangible music.
I particularly appreciate the drums. I simply don't have hours in a day to be programming drum machines or snipping drum loops from the drum loops discs I have. Sitting there auditioning if "16th fill with snare and high toms" is the right loop of the 5000 to pick from. They are 2 second looks, but that is 10,000 seconds, or 166 hours, to sift through drum wav files. Let Real Drums do it, and I can add stuff by manual tap mode form my Roland drum machine later.
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Quote:
When and why do you leave RealBand to use another sequencer - if you leave it at all.
I don't even though I have Sonar Home Studio and Reaper. There's flaws with Real Band but until you completely understand it to the point you become one of the main guys anwering question here about it you won't know if those things matter to you or not. Automation? It's cool but for what I do I'm not switching. VST support? Contrary to what you read here RB has very good VST support. If there's some VST plugin that won't work inside RB it's usually a freebie somebody downloaded from somewhere that hasn't been updated in like 6 years and it's a conflict with your interface, nothing at all to do with RB. The only VST problem is tempo matching. Say you want to use a delay effect and have the delay match the tempo of the song, RB can't do that. Or, you have a drum plugin like Jamstix and you want it to create the drum part for you, that also requires tempo matching. Other than that, RB handles every VST I have and I have a lot of them.
You asked about any free synths that emulate classic sounds. Those are exactly the ones you may have problems with but then Scott, Rockstar_Not is our go to guy about those. He can tell you which ones are good. I talked about Sampletank in the other thread and their $10 sale. Trust me, those synths will give you all the classic sounds you will ever need until you become a total pro with this stuff. Just listen to some of the Youtube vids about it.
My advice to you is don't even think about other software right now. Use Biab/RB until you could be a beta tester. Only then will be able to judge what's missing that you just have to have.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Jazzmammal Bob you bring up a great point. I see that complaint from 3-4 users about VST support but it's always a general statement. What specifically is this issue of which you speak? What plugin doesn't work with RB, and when was the last time you tried? The last time I had one not work, I was loading it wrong. Once I loaded it properly, it worked just fine.
JCS says this a lot, so JCS please do elaborate about what exactly doesn't work, like which VST plugin. Many inquiring minds here want to know.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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Tempo matching is specifically what I was referring to. This, to me, is a key feature of contemporary music production. I'd also love to try Jamstix but don't have any program that supports its full capabilities.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Don't know what that means in the context that you may mean it. Do you mean that if you record at 120 bpm and want to import a part recorded at 108 bpm you want the software to automatically sense that and do it for you? Does anything do that? I have used the time stretch several times when tracks sent to me did not line up right and needed to be fixed 2 bpm one way or the other, but pretty much isn't 120 bpm 120 bpm with anything getting it's clock from MIDI?
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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another consideration is money. How many music apps can you afford to keep current?
When RB first emerged, I had already invested a lot of time in learning Sonar up to version 6.0. So,
For a while I used it because I already HAD it, and I understood it. But keep in mind that all sequencers share about 90% of the same feature set. I decided it didn't make sense to keep paying for multiple upgrades every year for several programs that are very very similar. RB keeps improving, so with every upgrade I get a more robust DAW, whereas Sonar 6 stays on my computer, but never advances.
Another consideration is "which features do you use most?" Sonar has tons of features I never used, but RBs feature set is 100% usable to me. Other people here use tempo locking, so they aren't ready to abandon their other DAW because that feature is provided. But I don't use tempo locking, so RB is not deficient for my needs
Another consideration is: "which software implements the features i use most in a way that makes sense to me?" I'M a guy who mostly uses software to make covers. There are key steps in my procedure that are VERY difficult to do in Sonar and very EASY to do in RB. For example, the ability to bring a cover song directly into RB, extract the chords and map its tempo to the songs tempo is priceless to me. Likewise, the ability to quickly lay down tracks for instruments I don't even play is priceless. Sonar doesn't have that feature at ANY level of difficulty
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A specific example would be setting a delay repeat to four beats. Reason lets me do this with a switch setting, and it stays constant if I change the tempo. I guess I could do it with a calculator and figure it in msec. I'm just used to not having to do that.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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.
I use BiaB to get the song form down: AABA or AABB or whatever. Add an intro and ending. Use the Harmony tool to create 2 or 3 other parts.
Once I have this basic shape, I port over to RealBand. This is where I add most of the realracks and harmony parts. I go over the harmonies and edit for articulation. Usually I layer the harmonies across a couple different voices and turn the layers way down.
I often add percussion - maybe a few conga licks from a Realdrums, or beef up the downbeats with a MIDI bass drum. You can hear close-miked body percussion in some of my stuff.
If I like a particular lick in any of the reatracks that I like, I might hilight it and copy it a bunch of times, to every eighth measure, or bar 1 of each verse, or something. Usually on a separate track with nothing else in it.
I will often double the vocals and add chorus or reverb to the second iteration. Repeat as necessary.
Here I add any acoustic instruments recorded in my home studio.
I am likely to go back to BiaB one or more times to generate an extra Reatrack part, then import it to an empty track in RB.
...and lots of other stuff. I dont use any other DAW. There is nothing that I want that RealBand doesnt have, and no other DAW has Realtracks. For me, BiaB and Realband are two parts of a single system. Considered this way, no other DAW comes close.
If you want to hear some results, I just posted some stuff to the user showcase.
Last edited by flatfoot; 12/27/12 02:55 PM.
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Quote:
JCS please do elaborate about what exactly doesn't work, like which VST plugin. Many inquiring minds here want to know.
First off, like mentioned above, no tempo matching
With the Plug & Mix, Some Soundtoys, Sonnox, Nectar, DDMF effects, and the Breverb, Wizoo, SIR, and Room844 reverb's, I get random crash's & lock ups, settings not holding, adjustments to settings extremely jumpy or sluggish, and a host of other things. ALL of this happened in RealBand/PT Pro since at least 2007.
All of this happened in Win XP Pro x32 & Win7 x32 & x64, on 3 different systems, 2 different sound cards, and maybe 5? different video cards, AGP, PCI, PCIx, and built in. They ranged from 128mb to 1gb of memory on the video cards, and up to 6gb in RAM. Hard drives were IDE & SATA.
A lot of folks have no problems, but I do. I DON'T have ANY problems with DXi effects from Cakewalk, and as a matter of fact they are a LOT faster in RB/PT Pro than any of my VST's are in my other DAWs.
I tried every fix either suggested on here, thru support, etc and tho it DID help at times, VST effects have never ran smoothly FOR ME in RB/PT Pro
Bottom line is I now have a workflow that fits me, and I can switch between the program reasonably fast. I will try it again, like I always do, when the new version show up on my door step, but really I am not holding my breath for it to be any different.
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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That leads to another really good question. Isn't reverb reverb and EQ EQ? When I boost 1.6k by 3db, does it matter which EQ plug in I use? Isn't 3db the same in every EQ? Is .03ms reverb different in different plugins? Why do you need up to 8 different plug in packages?
This is a wider encompassing question that is just surfacing as I see post after post talking about these magic plugins that somehow fix bad things. If it's just a matter of what one user is used to, I understand, but to go on and on about this reverb and that reverb... it's all still reverb.
I mean, "faster"? Where'm I going that I care about "faster"? And what does "faster" mean? Loads faster? Faster for YOU to use it? Faster how?
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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OK, so I guess it is my turn. I worked with RB back on day 1, when it first came out. I recall the orgins of the program to meet the simple needs of multitrack recording which BIAB was not designed to do. At the time I was already working in Protools and perfectly content. In those days there were no Real Tracks so it was a simple matter of rendering the BIAB midi track to a wave and importing into ProTools.
Then with the introduction of Win7 all hell broke loose. ProTools and the MBox were not made to be compatable with Win7. For months we screamed over in the digi forum, but then Avid purchased the company and turned a deft ear to our complaints. "So I didn't leave ProTools, Protools left me"! My tag line to this day.
But now there was RealBand. So I give it a good try. Unfortuantely, at the time it simply could not compete with the functions, features, capabiltiies and workflow of ProTools. Remember RealBand was and still is a free addon to BIAB and Protools cost more than I have spent on software to this day. So it was an unfair comparison.
So I kept looking and found the same place where many of my friends from the old Digiforum days had gone - Reaper. In a single word Reaper is - incredible! Thats all I'll say about that because this is not about that. But it does explain why I have never really come back to RealBand. I have tried to return with each upgrade over the years and it just seems RB and me do not think the same way. There are the most simple things which I can not seem to figure out how to do in RB.
So there is no bad feelings at all. I wish RB and its users the best. BIAB works with Reaper as near to being s seamless VSTi, short of being a VSTi. So my love affair with BIAB continues - I don't forsee that ever changing. But Reaper has stolen me away from RB and there is no going back.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Dan, the million dollar question though is (not really a question) that you actually PLAY tracks in. You do tracks layer after layer. For those of us without the skills, Reaper, Protools, Logic, Sonar... they just sit there waiting for manual input that won't be forthcoming. So that leads me to what IS a question. Where do you get your drums? Where do you get your bass? Your piano? Drums alone, to sit at a drum machine and program, would take me a week per song. Are you recording a real drummer with 8 mics to get your drums?
I guess what I am not following is the generic term "work flow". Where does your work flow begin, with nothing down or after something has generated tracks?
If it is the latter, then the reason I rarely leave RB is that once those tracks are there, I am pretty much done. I add VERY little to the program generated stuff, so little that it would take me longer to boot up another program, than just do the track into RB.
Then again, I do this in my spare time in my spare room, and you do it for a living.
This is a GREAT thread!!
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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Quote:
That leads to another really good question. Isn't reverb reverb and EQ EQ? When I boost 1.6k by 3db, does it matter which EQ plug in I use? Isn't 3db the same in every EQ? Is .03ms reverb different in different plugins? Why do you need up to 8 different plug in packages?
You're assuming EQ is EQ and reverb is reverb?? I thought you knew better than that. Anything you insert into the signal path colors the sound. Do you think the spring reverb in your basic old school Fender Reverb amp is the same reverb in a hardware Lexicon unit that costs thousands? You are kidding, right? Why do think this Eventide unit is $1,995? Just because it's pretty?
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Eventide-Rev...amp;cagpspn=pla
Why is this AL AUdio 16 channel console 10K when you can buy a pretty good Mackie or Yamaha for $900? It's the EQ.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/411331-REG/TL_Audio_23_71006_M_4_Tube_Console.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACKIE-1604-VLZ3...T-/170892263106
That Mackie looks pretty good to me in my bedroom but for a full blown recording studio? No way.
All these different reverb and EQ plugins are specifically designed to emulate the real ones that are parked in pro studios all over the world and some do a very good job of it. That's why T-Racks, Ozone and others cost what they do. I've seen pictures of studio racks consisting of reverbs, EQ's, compressor/limiters that cost tens of thousands of dollars. They're not spending that kind of cash for giggles. The engineer thinks they help the sound. Otherwise they would just use my Behringer mixer that cost me $129 5 years ago. It's got EQ and a DSP chip in it with about 50 different reverbs. Gee, wouldn't that work for Travis's next album?
Didn't you say you were going to take some recording courses?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Then again, I do this in my spare time in my spare room, and you do it for a living.
You have me mixed up with someone else...
Other than that, your are correct, I do record. I play and I sing. Friends come in and we lay down tracks. That is fundementally what a DAW allows one to do. Real Band is a different animal indeed.
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Probably have you and Jazzmammal mixed up. I don't keep things like that straight very well anymore.
Over to Bob's comment, I understand that quality is different from piece to piece, but the question I asked revolved around the need for 74 different reverb plugins. If someone has the plugin that emulates the million dollar one, then why also have the one that emulates the 75 dollar one? And when it comes down to it, is .03ms not .03ms? My Alesis outboard units have 99 settings in them. It may not sound like the really expensive one, but I am also not a pro studio, and preset 03 sounds fine for me. Sometimes I use preset 11 as well. I also question how something like an echo of exactly the same length in elapsed time can have such differences that even the most esoteric of audiophiles can tell what kind of reverb created it, particularly when that time is so miniscule like .03ms, less than the time it takes to even think about batting an eye.
Much like my guitar snob friend who swore the solo he heard just HAD to be a Les Paul, and it was my Ibanez Gio through a Line 6 with grunge and echoplex. And the other one who won't even play anything but his prize SG. (PS: He can't play AT ALL. He poses really well though. He chose SG as his fave because of Angus Young. I mean, if you are going to do something that "hero worship-y", Angus Young???) If someone can tell the difference between this reverb and that one, they have my admiration.
Of all the plugins I have, I would estimate I have used maybe 5% of the possibilities. I use 2 reverb settings of the many available, and when they are right to my ears I stop playing. I simply don't need a second job playing with plugins.
People who buy the $1500 reverb unit quite possibly do it because they can. Besides which, if everything is in the box now, that's moot.
And recording classes are out. They are not offered at night and I can't afford them anyway.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
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A lot of that is true Eddie but it's also true that each one of these things are cumulative in a mix and can be the reason why your or any of our mixes don't quite measure up to what we want to hear compared to our favorite commercial stuff. Just give a very critical listen to the vocal reverb on a top commercial recording and then compare that to your Midiverb on one of your vocal tracks. Ignore the quality of the singing, just listen to the reverb tails. Huge difference. A pro reverb is clean, pristine, fades out beautifully while any $99 home reverb is noisy, grainy and a bit sloppy in comparison. Money can buy happiness sometimes. Along with the knowledge how to use that equipment. If you were to somehow find out what that studio used don't be surprised if it's that Avalon something or other that only cost four G's. If a $6-700 plugin can get close to that, awesome.
The thing with all the freebies is most are one trick pony's so yeah, you might need 20 of them to equal the presets in one good commercial one. Having all those freebies doesn't make much sense to me, I'll just buy one good one but remember to a lot of people messing around with all the free stuff is a hobby for them too. Most can afford to get what they want but they get off on finding freebies and seeing what they can do without spending anything so good for them.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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