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#187736 - 01/04/13 08:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: CountryTrash]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4530
Loc: Florida
Hey you kids! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!!
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https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

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#187737 - 01/04/13 05:47 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: 90 dB]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 987
Loc: NYC
Quote:


Probably the biggest deterrent to new users of ANY age is the lack of a SYSTEMATIC FREE video tutorial that covers BIAB and how to use it. You get video tutorials included in the “Everything Pak”, but they’re woefully inadequate.





Bob - have you gotten past the learning curve and can pretty much do anything you want with BB/RB - or are there still areas you don't use because of either confusion, buginess, or integration problems with other products ?

And...will you ever forgive PG for making you spend so much time learning to integrate and troubleshoot problems ?

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#187738 - 01/04/13 06:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Marketing.

Pg music, has a staid marketing program.

A new, cool, easy to use version, wrapped up neatly, pointed right at high school musicians (there are some left), to practice the horn, or other band instrument, with computer aided tutorials.

This would mean the kids would get a way to go from scales to real songs. Even if it mean getting the copywrite to certain songs for EDUCATIONAL purposes.

The same sort of box, with a more of a rapper type appeal, or wrapper around it, and done right through other media sources, or internet. That would fly I think.

Another market, but the opposite, is the returning retired guy with his horn in the closet. Show how to put together a system to practice, and get the fake books and charts. And awaaaay we go!

Ok.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#187739 - 01/05/13 06:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: John Conley]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13422
<< my comments are product-neutral

Hi Scott,

I do not consider your criticisms about our products to be valid, until you have at least used them.

From your messages, the last experience you had with our products was PowerTracks Pro, a long time ago. You've never ran RealBand, or BIAB in the last 10 years or so. As you've stated, you have no interest in auto-accompaniment.

For example, about 5 years ago, we came up with RealTracks. These are not accessible from PowerTracks Pro, but are accessible from Band-in-a-Box and RealBand. If you are looking for improvements in our products, you should try RealTracks.

At least your "product neutral" criticisms of our company should be accompanied by a disclaimer that you don't have, use or want to use our products.
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Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#187740 - 01/05/13 11:33 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7255
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Peter, fair enough. I do not own current versions of any PG products. Relevancy to the thread is not limited to product ownership, IMO. It would be a boring world if market research was done only by listening to and paying attention to current customers. I think all persons who have responded in this thread would be interested to hear your opinion on the answer to the question posed.

I'm fully aware of how real tracks work. A big reason I stay tuned here is to see of some of these longtime feature requests will get resolved. The tempo integration with vst/vsti is a huge deal to me.

But I doubt that is the reason for the poll results. What is your educated guess/opinion/substantiated reason for the results?

There have been some interesting opinions shared.

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#187741 - 01/06/13 12:11 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7255
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
For the record, I DO want to the products when it's clear that the very items which caused me to look elsewhere are cleared up. I don't have tonown the software to see thatntey are not yet resolved.

Also let the record show that I made a sustained attempt to get PG products added to the list of DAW software in Wikipedia, probably 3 years after I quit using PG products. This is actually a matter of somewhat public record in the edit history and related discussions for that particular page. I added the websitte, prduct pages, etc. And they were removed after a day or two by an overzealous overseer of that family of pages. The ensuing protest that I made was rejecfed out of hand due to the overseer's opinion that PG products had no evidence of 'notoriety' in publications and so forth. I attempted to mount a campaign here on the forums to right that wrong. A few folks got upset but I don't know that anyone other than myself tried to do anything about it. I eventually gave up.

So, I do take exception with your comment that I have no desire to use the products. Simply not true. I could reallyngive RB a workout in the upcoming FAWM but I am laying out my play money right now for a New Epiphone Firehawk Custom.

I would be glad to carry on this conversation with you in private but I have no way to contact you. I can be emailed from my website.

I woulsd also honor a request from you if you simply want me to go away. I would miss the online friendships that I have here.

Scott

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#187742 - 01/06/13 04:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13422

>>> What is your educated guess/opinion/substantiated reason for the results?

We're #10 ...

http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/press/music_software_popularity_2012Q1.htm
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PG Music Inc.

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#187743 - 01/06/13 09:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 987
Loc: NYC
Quote:


We're #10 ... based on recent search engine activity





I would be very interested in the relative difference in sales numbers - not in absolute dollars and sense, but in relative overall number of DAW software units sold. (well yes in dollars and sense too, but wouldn't want to ask for any 'private', or 'inappropriate' information)

The answer to this, I think, would lead the conversation to a more meaningfully place and extend my hunch and the question I was getting at with the initial post.

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#187744 - 01/06/13 11:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

- not in absolute dollars and sense,




I love inadvertent typos like this that somehow still make sense.


I also would think that what you are asking is indeed private and inappropriate information.

Such is also nonconclusive, really, since the comparison given is mostly multitrack DAW softwares vs Band in a Box's Autoaccompaniment.

The first question I would have would be to ask how the given placement was derived and what was the methodology behind the count. If it is data taken from some sort of online polling, it is only worth the bits it took to publish.

As an engineer, I would say that nothing statistically valid could possibly be derived.

Lots of modern statistial abusers will argue that point. Am thinking of a research prof whom I saw asking the CEO offering the study grant what result they wanted to get...

--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
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#187745 - 01/06/13 11:20 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I would be very interested in the relative difference in sales numbers - not in absolute dollars and sense, but in relative overall number of DAW software units sold. (well yes in dollars and sense too, but wouldn't want to ask for any 'private', or 'inappropriate' information)




if you're a statistics guy, you probably know that for any population, there is practically no attribute that is present in 100% of the population.

For example, if you sorted all users of PGMusic products by the attribute of forum membership, you'd get a subset of the whole. Most likely a small subset, along the lines of "tip of the iceberg"

With that thought in mind, check out the list of registered forum users:
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showmembers.php?Cat=0&page=1

And consider the fact that many customers of other DAWS also have BIAB... so it isn't even an "either or" ratio. The numbers Peter quoted show absolute numbers for each product... but if you counted ONLY people who use another DAW and don't also use BIAB, the numbers would show a truer picture of BIABs market share.

Also, if you go to the forum and take note of all the non-English speaking forums... we're talking a significant global presence in all the economically desirable markets of the world. That's a lotta people!!

edit: I see that Mac pretty much negated my statistics approach.. but its STILL a lotta people!


Edited by Pat Marr (01/06/13 11:24 AM)

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#187746 - 01/06/13 11:36 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Mac]
rockstar_not Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7255
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Quote:

Quote:

- not in absolute dollars and sense,




I love inadvertent typos like this that somehow still make sense.


I also would think that what you are asking is indeed private and inappropriate information.

Such is also nonconclusive, really, since the comparison given is mostly multitrack DAW softwares vs Band in a Box's Autoaccompaniment.

The first question I would have would be to ask how the given placement was derived and what was the methodology behind the count. If it is data taken from some sort of online polling, it is only worth the bits it took to publish.

As an engineer, I would say that nothing statistically valid could possibly be derived.

Lots of modern statistial abusers will argue that point. Am thinking of a research prof whom I saw asking the CEO offering the study grant what result they wanted to get...

--Mac




I agree with Mac that this informal poll likely is only valid under conditions for which would make it not reliable as market research evidence.

It's only persons who choose to reply.

It contains responses (at least one) from people that are not active users of the product.

etc. ad infinitum.

-Scott

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#187747 - 01/06/13 11:55 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I agree with Mac that this informal poll likely is only valid under conditions for which would make it not reliable as market research evidence.

It's only persons who choose to reply.

It contains responses (at least one) from people that are not active users of the product.

etc. ad infinitum.

-Scott



the way I read it, it wasn't a poll at all... it was based on total internet activity on the 4 major search engines. That's a fairly unbiased sample, and also a very large number... which is significant unless it can be shown that there is some assignable factor in place skewing the randomness of these samples

Even in the case of you, whose internet activity would indeed skew the data, the presence of outliers cannot significantly change the center of the bell shaped curve.

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#187748 - 01/06/13 11:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Pat Marr]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16806
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, what poll?

Internat traffic might register higher on software with more problems, complaints and controversy, not more overall use. But, who is to know?
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BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR, Samplitude or Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#187749 - 01/06/13 12:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Matt Finley]
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5472
Loc: Chicago
Old guys Google a lot!

However, could it be BIAB is riding the BabyBoomer Wave. That could indeed be a good thing for them! Plus all those young guys will be old some day and perphaps turn their attention from the bars to the home studios.

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#187750 - 01/06/13 01:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: MusicStudent]
Don Gaynor Online   content
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7670
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

- Benjamin Disraeli

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PG Music News
RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
Updated: Help file.

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is Here!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is here! PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 includes many new features and enhancements:

Windows Audio (WASAPI) driver support. This allows for low latency audio recording/playback without requiring ASIO. Note that this supports 1 stereo input plus 1 stereo output at a time. For multiple inputs/outputs, you should continue to use either MME or ASIO.

ABC Notation format support. You can save a track of notation in a popular ASCII text format to import into other programs, or you can paste this format into a user forum as a way of sending the track (usually the melody and chord symbols) to other users without having to attach a file.

The built-in Audio Chord Wizard detection in the Chords window automatically detects the chords of the song, based on the audio data from all non-muted audio tracks. This works similar to the standalone Audio Chord Wizard, except that it uses the current bar lines of the existing song.

Notation Enhancements:
-X/8 time signature support. This is a special method of displaying 6/8, 9/8, or 12/8 time signatures in the Notation window.
-The Duplicate previous chord in notation right-click menu lets you quickly duplicate the previous chord (group of notes on same peg) without having to reenter it.
-Delete highlighted notes in notation right-click menu lets you delete all highlighted notes.
-Delete all notes on this peg in notation right-click menu lets you delete all notes on the nearest peg that was clicked on.
-You can now enter Section Numbers. Previously, you could enter letters (A-Z) only, but now you can also enter numbers (1-9).

...a full list of the new features in PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is available at http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.features.htm

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

#TBT - The Beginning of Xtra Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box®

We released the much-loved Xtra Styles PAKs in August 2016! This release included 164 RealStyles for Jazz, Country, Rock-Pop, and Singer/Songwriter and worked with any Band-in-a-Box® 2016 or higher UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK, or Audiophile Edition!

Xtra Styles PAKs were such a hit... we couldn't stop making them! Since their introduction, we've released 3 more PAKs with a total of over 600 Xtra Styles in all!

Want to hear what other program users are doing with their Xtra Styles? Visit our Xtra STyles Contests forum to hear all the songs submitted during previous song contest we've had: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=102&page=1

Learn more about Xtra Styles PAKs and listen to their demos at http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win.

Band-in-a-Box® Customer Feedback - Feel The Love!

Check out some great feedback we've received on our Facebook account from program users:

"I have been using Band-in-a-Box for years. It is the anchor of my music gigs as well as my fun in my studio. I have used other software but Band-in-a-Box is my main go to."
-Jack T.

"Love Band-in-a-Box. As someone who played professionally for 20 years and retired from live performing years ago, I still love music. Band-in-a-Box allows me to create fun arrangements which I can sing over or play over. There are THOUSANDS of different variations plus you can enter any chords you like and create any chart. It's also great for creating background tracks for videos and audio content for websites, training etc. And like everything else in the world . . . it may not be right for everyone. For those who love music and don't have the time to shed five or six instruments it's way cool."
-Vinnie R.

"This program has completely changed my playing for the good. I can experiment with playing chords and leads over various scenarios that I can quickly create and change. Love this program. I use it nearly every day."
-Dave R.

"I bought my first version in 1994 and have progressed to 2018 version. I use it to create backing tracks for live music performance. I currently have over 2,000 songs performance ready. If you can and type, and use mouse it will work for you."
-Roger M.

"The premiere reason for me for buying this program; it has given me the freedom to fully complete the foundation for my songs without the confinement of limited minded musicians. After the song concept is complete, it can then be presented those musicians to play as a cover song. Also writing a song with a band gives them partial ownership of your idea... not cool... especially since they may have fought your idea every step of the way.. Every member of an organized band should own a copy of this program to compose or to even give legitimate composition alternatives to the original songwriter."
-Paul V.

Thanks everyone!

Support for ABC Notation Format in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

ABC notation is the simple text-based notation system used by musicians worldwide to store chords, melody, and lyrics of songs. Now with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows you can open and save songs in ABC notation format!

To save the song in ABC notation format, press the [Save As] toolbar button and choose Save as ABC notation file from the menu. Once opened, select a track that you want to save and choose your other criteria - The [Copy to clipboard] button will copy the file to the clipboard (that you can then paste it into other programs). The [Save as File] button will let you type a name and select the destination in your hard drive.

Band-in-a-Box® Song Title Browser Requests Forum

Have you stumped the Song Title Browser feature in the Band-in-a-Box® StylePicker?

If you tried to search for a popular song and this feature didn't offer you any listings, we'd love it if you'd let us know in our Wishlist forum here.

Posting your requests to this forum really does work - we used it to increase the database with the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 release!

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