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#187736 - 01/04/13 08:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: CountryTrash]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4473
Loc: Florida
Hey you kids! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!!
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#187737 - 01/04/13 05:47 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: 90 dB]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 981
Loc: NYC
Quote:


Probably the biggest deterrent to new users of ANY age is the lack of a SYSTEMATIC FREE video tutorial that covers BIAB and how to use it. You get video tutorials included in the “Everything Pak”, but they’re woefully inadequate.





Bob - have you gotten past the learning curve and can pretty much do anything you want with BB/RB - or are there still areas you don't use because of either confusion, buginess, or integration problems with other products ?

And...will you ever forgive PG for making you spend so much time learning to integrate and troubleshoot problems ?

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#187738 - 01/04/13 06:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Marketing.

Pg music, has a staid marketing program.

A new, cool, easy to use version, wrapped up neatly, pointed right at high school musicians (there are some left), to practice the horn, or other band instrument, with computer aided tutorials.

This would mean the kids would get a way to go from scales to real songs. Even if it mean getting the copywrite to certain songs for EDUCATIONAL purposes.

The same sort of box, with a more of a rapper type appeal, or wrapper around it, and done right through other media sources, or internet. That would fly I think.

Another market, but the opposite, is the returning retired guy with his horn in the closet. Show how to put together a system to practice, and get the fake books and charts. And awaaaay we go!

Ok.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#187739 - 01/05/13 06:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: John Conley]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13403
<< my comments are product-neutral

Hi Scott,

I do not consider your criticisms about our products to be valid, until you have at least used them.

From your messages, the last experience you had with our products was PowerTracks Pro, a long time ago. You've never ran RealBand, or BIAB in the last 10 years or so. As you've stated, you have no interest in auto-accompaniment.

For example, about 5 years ago, we came up with RealTracks. These are not accessible from PowerTracks Pro, but are accessible from Band-in-a-Box and RealBand. If you are looking for improvements in our products, you should try RealTracks.

At least your "product neutral" criticisms of our company should be accompanied by a disclaimer that you don't have, use or want to use our products.
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Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#187740 - 01/05/13 11:33 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7206
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Peter, fair enough. I do not own current versions of any PG products. Relevancy to the thread is not limited to product ownership, IMO. It would be a boring world if market research was done only by listening to and paying attention to current customers. I think all persons who have responded in this thread would be interested to hear your opinion on the answer to the question posed.

I'm fully aware of how real tracks work. A big reason I stay tuned here is to see of some of these longtime feature requests will get resolved. The tempo integration with vst/vsti is a huge deal to me.

But I doubt that is the reason for the poll results. What is your educated guess/opinion/substantiated reason for the results?

There have been some interesting opinions shared.

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#187741 - 01/06/13 12:11 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7206
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
For the record, I DO want to the products when it's clear that the very items which caused me to look elsewhere are cleared up. I don't have tonown the software to see thatntey are not yet resolved.

Also let the record show that I made a sustained attempt to get PG products added to the list of DAW software in Wikipedia, probably 3 years after I quit using PG products. This is actually a matter of somewhat public record in the edit history and related discussions for that particular page. I added the websitte, prduct pages, etc. And they were removed after a day or two by an overzealous overseer of that family of pages. The ensuing protest that I made was rejecfed out of hand due to the overseer's opinion that PG products had no evidence of 'notoriety' in publications and so forth. I attempted to mount a campaign here on the forums to right that wrong. A few folks got upset but I don't know that anyone other than myself tried to do anything about it. I eventually gave up.

So, I do take exception with your comment that I have no desire to use the products. Simply not true. I could reallyngive RB a workout in the upcoming FAWM but I am laying out my play money right now for a New Epiphone Firehawk Custom.

I would be glad to carry on this conversation with you in private but I have no way to contact you. I can be emailed from my website.

I woulsd also honor a request from you if you simply want me to go away. I would miss the online friendships that I have here.

Scott

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#187742 - 01/06/13 04:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13403

>>> What is your educated guess/opinion/substantiated reason for the results?

We're #10 ...

http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/press/music_software_popularity_2012Q1.htm
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Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#187743 - 01/06/13 09:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 981
Loc: NYC
Quote:


We're #10 ... based on recent search engine activity





I would be very interested in the relative difference in sales numbers - not in absolute dollars and sense, but in relative overall number of DAW software units sold. (well yes in dollars and sense too, but wouldn't want to ask for any 'private', or 'inappropriate' information)

The answer to this, I think, would lead the conversation to a more meaningfully place and extend my hunch and the question I was getting at with the initial post.

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#187744 - 01/06/13 11:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

- not in absolute dollars and sense,




I love inadvertent typos like this that somehow still make sense.


I also would think that what you are asking is indeed private and inappropriate information.

Such is also nonconclusive, really, since the comparison given is mostly multitrack DAW softwares vs Band in a Box's Autoaccompaniment.

The first question I would have would be to ask how the given placement was derived and what was the methodology behind the count. If it is data taken from some sort of online polling, it is only worth the bits it took to publish.

As an engineer, I would say that nothing statistically valid could possibly be derived.

Lots of modern statistial abusers will argue that point. Am thinking of a research prof whom I saw asking the CEO offering the study grant what result they wanted to get...

--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

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#187745 - 01/06/13 11:20 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7436
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I would be very interested in the relative difference in sales numbers - not in absolute dollars and sense, but in relative overall number of DAW software units sold. (well yes in dollars and sense too, but wouldn't want to ask for any 'private', or 'inappropriate' information)




if you're a statistics guy, you probably know that for any population, there is practically no attribute that is present in 100% of the population.

For example, if you sorted all users of PGMusic products by the attribute of forum membership, you'd get a subset of the whole. Most likely a small subset, along the lines of "tip of the iceberg"

With that thought in mind, check out the list of registered forum users:
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showmembers.php?Cat=0&page=1

And consider the fact that many customers of other DAWS also have BIAB... so it isn't even an "either or" ratio. The numbers Peter quoted show absolute numbers for each product... but if you counted ONLY people who use another DAW and don't also use BIAB, the numbers would show a truer picture of BIABs market share.

Also, if you go to the forum and take note of all the non-English speaking forums... we're talking a significant global presence in all the economically desirable markets of the world. That's a lotta people!!

edit: I see that Mac pretty much negated my statistics approach.. but its STILL a lotta people!


Edited by Pat Marr (01/06/13 11:24 AM)

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#187746 - 01/06/13 11:36 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Mac]
rockstar_not Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7206
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Quote:

Quote:

- not in absolute dollars and sense,




I love inadvertent typos like this that somehow still make sense.


I also would think that what you are asking is indeed private and inappropriate information.

Such is also nonconclusive, really, since the comparison given is mostly multitrack DAW softwares vs Band in a Box's Autoaccompaniment.

The first question I would have would be to ask how the given placement was derived and what was the methodology behind the count. If it is data taken from some sort of online polling, it is only worth the bits it took to publish.

As an engineer, I would say that nothing statistically valid could possibly be derived.

Lots of modern statistial abusers will argue that point. Am thinking of a research prof whom I saw asking the CEO offering the study grant what result they wanted to get...

--Mac




I agree with Mac that this informal poll likely is only valid under conditions for which would make it not reliable as market research evidence.

It's only persons who choose to reply.

It contains responses (at least one) from people that are not active users of the product.

etc. ad infinitum.

-Scott

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#187747 - 01/06/13 11:55 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7436
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I agree with Mac that this informal poll likely is only valid under conditions for which would make it not reliable as market research evidence.

It's only persons who choose to reply.

It contains responses (at least one) from people that are not active users of the product.

etc. ad infinitum.

-Scott



the way I read it, it wasn't a poll at all... it was based on total internet activity on the 4 major search engines. That's a fairly unbiased sample, and also a very large number... which is significant unless it can be shown that there is some assignable factor in place skewing the randomness of these samples

Even in the case of you, whose internet activity would indeed skew the data, the presence of outliers cannot significantly change the center of the bell shaped curve.

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#187748 - 01/06/13 11:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Pat Marr]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16227
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, what poll?

Internat traffic might register higher on software with more problems, complaints and controversy, not more overall use. But, who is to know?
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#187749 - 01/06/13 12:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Matt Finley]
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5381
Loc: Chicago
Old guys Google a lot!

However, could it be BIAB is riding the BabyBoomer Wave. That could indeed be a good thing for them! Plus all those young guys will be old some day and perphaps turn their attention from the bars to the home studios.

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#187750 - 01/06/13 01:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: MusicStudent]
Don Gaynor Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7580
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

- Benjamin Disraeli

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PG Music News
RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_3

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 505 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can update their version with the latest patch - Build 505.

This patch can be downloaded here.

Summary of changes for Build 505:

Added: You can now put Section Numbers in your song. Previously you could only use letters A-Z, but now you can use 1-9 as well.
Added:You can now filter styles in the StylePicker for styles that contain Video RealTracks.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error "Procedure entry point MFTEnumEx could not be found in the Dynamic Link Library Mfplat.DLL" while starting up if using Windows Vista.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error message "dwmapi.dll cannot be found" while starting up if using Windows XP.
Fixed: The Transcribe feature in the Audio Edit window was not always working.
Fixed: The Windows Audio Devices dialog might show garbage text for names of devices if not running Band-in-a-Box in English.
Fixed: There was no Quality selector in the Render to Audio File dialog if rendering MP3 on Windows 7 or earlier.
Fixed: There were visual artifacts in the leadsheet & notation windows when moving the cursor.
Fixed: Using the Transpose or stretching features in the Audio Edit window might cause an access violation if the audio track is mono.
Improved: Band-in-a-Box will start up faster.
Improved: Importing ABC Notation files has been improved.
Updated: Help file and manuals.
Updated: RealTracks Artist bio's.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#505

New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows... Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.
TIP: If you load one of the video RealTracks bands, you will have video RealTracks on 5 tracks, and you can make a video of 1-5 musicians!

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows packages during our December special.
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Holiday Special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: Video link - "Video RealTracks Sets 1-6 for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows"

Video - 202 NEW RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows we also released 202 NEW RealTracks (in Sets 278-300)! Listen to all the individual demos here: www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.202newrealtracks.htm, or watch our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 202 New RealTracks Overview Video: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qDFYZMjrzAI

Get all 202 new RealTracks when you purchase any Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade, on sale until December 31st!

NEW! Xtra Styles PAK 4 - Available for both Windows and Mac!

We've just released Xtra Styles PAK 4 with over 150 new RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and 'Folk and Beyond' styles! These new RealStyles will work with the RealTracks included in any Band-in-a-Box® version 2017 or higher UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition.

To add to the excitement of this release, we're putting all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

Listen to all the demos of these new Xtra Styles here, or check out this video: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=Zl_wr47d2V0

Video - The Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts over 50 new features and enhancements... including the Build-in Audio Chord Wizard!

The Audio Chord Wizard has been redesigned with Band-in-a-Box® 2018, and is now built in to the program! Previously, the Audio Chord Wizard was a separate app that was not tightly integrated into Band-in-a-Box®. This app is still available from the [Audio Chord Wizard] toolbar button, but now the improved built-in Audio Chord Wizard can be accessed from the Audio Edit Window!

Watch our latest video to learn more: Video link - Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 2 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can download a small (free) patch update for their purchase!

Summary of patch update:
Access violation if clicking on Guitar Window or Big Piano when there isn't any notation window currently open.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_2

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