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#187731 - 01/03/13 11:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: jazzmammal]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
emoticon

emoticon

two emoticon

row of emoticons.


There.

I do hope that clears things up.


--Mac
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#187732 - 01/03/13 02:23 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Mac]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6478
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
There ya go.

I'm having a slow morning after being buried yesterday and just finished reading a Dubstep thread over on the Keyboard Corner forum. Absolutely hilarious. Some guys are waxing poetic about all the different styles, how people can't tell one type from another, lots of video examples, naming all kinds of artists none of us have ever heard of. As to why the kids like it so much one guy said this:

4) It bums old people out. One more reason kids like it.

Love it.

Bob
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Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#187733 - 01/03/13 02:49 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: jazzmammal]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
If you think that bumming the old guy out is desirable to 'em, try my delicious little method.

I will act so insanely interested in their music that it bums THEM out.

This method works even better if there is a keyboard, guitar or some instrument handy and you start playing along with their iPad as well.

Try to solo all over the thing and remember to act like its the greatest set of changes since Giant Steps.


--Mac
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#187734 - 01/03/13 03:13 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Mac]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6464
Loc: South Louisiana
Giant Steps?

Now that shook my memory bank!

Thanks for the wake up,
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#187735 - 01/03/13 03:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Danny C.]
CountryTrash Offline
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Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 375
Loc: Benoni, South Africa
I see the 50-59's are increasing!!!

Mac, we "old toppies" over here are also showing the young ones over here our versatility as well, even just the fact that we make the effort to actually spend the time, doing the research, pursuing until we beat the tool and the turn out recordings they thought should only be possibly in BIG studios.
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#187736 - 01/04/13 08:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: CountryTrash]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4613
Loc: Florida
Hey you kids! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!!
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#187737 - 01/04/13 05:47 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: 90 dB]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1000
Loc: NYC
Quote:


Probably the biggest deterrent to new users of ANY age is the lack of a SYSTEMATIC FREE video tutorial that covers BIAB and how to use it. You get video tutorials included in the “Everything Pak”, but they’re woefully inadequate.





Bob - have you gotten past the learning curve and can pretty much do anything you want with BB/RB - or are there still areas you don't use because of either confusion, buginess, or integration problems with other products ?

And...will you ever forgive PG for making you spend so much time learning to integrate and troubleshoot problems ?

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#187738 - 01/04/13 06:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Marketing.

Pg music, has a staid marketing program.

A new, cool, easy to use version, wrapped up neatly, pointed right at high school musicians (there are some left), to practice the horn, or other band instrument, with computer aided tutorials.

This would mean the kids would get a way to go from scales to real songs. Even if it mean getting the copywrite to certain songs for EDUCATIONAL purposes.

The same sort of box, with a more of a rapper type appeal, or wrapper around it, and done right through other media sources, or internet. That would fly I think.

Another market, but the opposite, is the returning retired guy with his horn in the closet. Show how to put together a system to practice, and get the fake books and charts. And awaaaay we go!

Ok.
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#187739 - 01/05/13 06:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: John Conley]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13440
<< my comments are product-neutral

Hi Scott,

I do not consider your criticisms about our products to be valid, until you have at least used them.

From your messages, the last experience you had with our products was PowerTracks Pro, a long time ago. You've never ran RealBand, or BIAB in the last 10 years or so. As you've stated, you have no interest in auto-accompaniment.

For example, about 5 years ago, we came up with RealTracks. These are not accessible from PowerTracks Pro, but are accessible from Band-in-a-Box and RealBand. If you are looking for improvements in our products, you should try RealTracks.

At least your "product neutral" criticisms of our company should be accompanied by a disclaimer that you don't have, use or want to use our products.
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#187740 - 01/05/13 11:33 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7351
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Peter, fair enough. I do not own current versions of any PG products. Relevancy to the thread is not limited to product ownership, IMO. It would be a boring world if market research was done only by listening to and paying attention to current customers. I think all persons who have responded in this thread would be interested to hear your opinion on the answer to the question posed.

I'm fully aware of how real tracks work. A big reason I stay tuned here is to see of some of these longtime feature requests will get resolved. The tempo integration with vst/vsti is a huge deal to me.

But I doubt that is the reason for the poll results. What is your educated guess/opinion/substantiated reason for the results?

There have been some interesting opinions shared.

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#187741 - 01/06/13 12:11 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7351
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
For the record, I DO want to the products when it's clear that the very items which caused me to look elsewhere are cleared up. I don't have tonown the software to see thatntey are not yet resolved.

Also let the record show that I made a sustained attempt to get PG products added to the list of DAW software in Wikipedia, probably 3 years after I quit using PG products. This is actually a matter of somewhat public record in the edit history and related discussions for that particular page. I added the websitte, prduct pages, etc. And they were removed after a day or two by an overzealous overseer of that family of pages. The ensuing protest that I made was rejecfed out of hand due to the overseer's opinion that PG products had no evidence of 'notoriety' in publications and so forth. I attempted to mount a campaign here on the forums to right that wrong. A few folks got upset but I don't know that anyone other than myself tried to do anything about it. I eventually gave up.

So, I do take exception with your comment that I have no desire to use the products. Simply not true. I could reallyngive RB a workout in the upcoming FAWM but I am laying out my play money right now for a New Epiphone Firehawk Custom.

I would be glad to carry on this conversation with you in private but I have no way to contact you. I can be emailed from my website.

I woulsd also honor a request from you if you simply want me to go away. I would miss the online friendships that I have here.

Scott

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#187742 - 01/06/13 04:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13440

>>> What is your educated guess/opinion/substantiated reason for the results?

We're #10 ...

http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/press/music_software_popularity_2012Q1.htm
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#187743 - 01/06/13 09:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: PeterGannon]
Joe V Offline
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Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1000
Loc: NYC
Quote:


We're #10 ... based on recent search engine activity





I would be very interested in the relative difference in sales numbers - not in absolute dollars and sense, but in relative overall number of DAW software units sold. (well yes in dollars and sense too, but wouldn't want to ask for any 'private', or 'inappropriate' information)

The answer to this, I think, would lead the conversation to a more meaningfully place and extend my hunch and the question I was getting at with the initial post.

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#187744 - 01/06/13 11:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

- not in absolute dollars and sense,




I love inadvertent typos like this that somehow still make sense.


I also would think that what you are asking is indeed private and inappropriate information.

Such is also nonconclusive, really, since the comparison given is mostly multitrack DAW softwares vs Band in a Box's Autoaccompaniment.

The first question I would have would be to ask how the given placement was derived and what was the methodology behind the count. If it is data taken from some sort of online polling, it is only worth the bits it took to publish.

As an engineer, I would say that nothing statistically valid could possibly be derived.

Lots of modern statistial abusers will argue that point. Am thinking of a research prof whom I saw asking the CEO offering the study grant what result they wanted to get...

--Mac
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#187745 - 01/06/13 11:20 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Joe V]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7498
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I would be very interested in the relative difference in sales numbers - not in absolute dollars and sense, but in relative overall number of DAW software units sold. (well yes in dollars and sense too, but wouldn't want to ask for any 'private', or 'inappropriate' information)




if you're a statistics guy, you probably know that for any population, there is practically no attribute that is present in 100% of the population.

For example, if you sorted all users of PGMusic products by the attribute of forum membership, you'd get a subset of the whole. Most likely a small subset, along the lines of "tip of the iceberg"

With that thought in mind, check out the list of registered forum users:
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showmembers.php?Cat=0&page=1

And consider the fact that many customers of other DAWS also have BIAB... so it isn't even an "either or" ratio. The numbers Peter quoted show absolute numbers for each product... but if you counted ONLY people who use another DAW and don't also use BIAB, the numbers would show a truer picture of BIABs market share.

Also, if you go to the forum and take note of all the non-English speaking forums... we're talking a significant global presence in all the economically desirable markets of the world. That's a lotta people!!

edit: I see that Mac pretty much negated my statistics approach.. but its STILL a lotta people!


Edited by Pat Marr (01/06/13 11:24 AM)

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#187746 - 01/06/13 11:36 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Mac]
rockstar_not Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7351
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Quote:

Quote:

- not in absolute dollars and sense,




I love inadvertent typos like this that somehow still make sense.


I also would think that what you are asking is indeed private and inappropriate information.

Such is also nonconclusive, really, since the comparison given is mostly multitrack DAW softwares vs Band in a Box's Autoaccompaniment.

The first question I would have would be to ask how the given placement was derived and what was the methodology behind the count. If it is data taken from some sort of online polling, it is only worth the bits it took to publish.

As an engineer, I would say that nothing statistically valid could possibly be derived.

Lots of modern statistial abusers will argue that point. Am thinking of a research prof whom I saw asking the CEO offering the study grant what result they wanted to get...

--Mac




I agree with Mac that this informal poll likely is only valid under conditions for which would make it not reliable as market research evidence.

It's only persons who choose to reply.

It contains responses (at least one) from people that are not active users of the product.

etc. ad infinitum.

-Scott

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#187747 - 01/06/13 11:55 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: rockstar_not]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7498
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I agree with Mac that this informal poll likely is only valid under conditions for which would make it not reliable as market research evidence.

It's only persons who choose to reply.

It contains responses (at least one) from people that are not active users of the product.

etc. ad infinitum.

-Scott



the way I read it, it wasn't a poll at all... it was based on total internet activity on the 4 major search engines. That's a fairly unbiased sample, and also a very large number... which is significant unless it can be shown that there is some assignable factor in place skewing the randomness of these samples

Even in the case of you, whose internet activity would indeed skew the data, the presence of outliers cannot significantly change the center of the bell shaped curve.

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#187748 - 01/06/13 11:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Pat Marr]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17214
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, what poll?

Internat traffic might register higher on software with more problems, complaints and controversy, not more overall use. But, who is to know?
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#187749 - 01/06/13 12:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: Matt Finley]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5483
Loc: Chicago
Old guys Google a lot!

However, could it be BIAB is riding the BabyBoomer Wave. That could indeed be a good thing for them! Plus all those young guys will be old some day and perphaps turn their attention from the bars to the home studios.

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#187750 - 01/06/13 01:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why not more 'regulars' that are in their teens, 20's, and 30's that actively participate in PG forums ? - or are there ? [Re: MusicStudent]
Don Gaynor Online   content
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7782
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

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