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"MUSICIAN", "BAND", "DJ", "KARAOKE", "SINGER"... those words are too specific for me.
I like the word "ENTERTAINER". It covers anything you can do to entertain an audience for pay.
let me flesh this out rather than letting it rot on the compost pile of excess verbage...
I'm close to retirement, but my employer figured out a way to screw me out of the pension that was supposed to be deferred earned income... and the market has decimated the 401k that was supposed to replace the pension. We all know about social security's problems.
I want music to be my vehicle for making up the difference between bills and retirement income.
I believe in the adage "different strokes for different folks." A salesman has to sell what the customer wants. There are venues that want full bands, while others want singles acts, DJs, Karaoke, open mic, comedy club etc.
The gear required to be a band, solo act, DJ, karaoke act is 90% the same. If I carve out only one niche, then the most I can get is a fraction of the action. But if I am prepared to offer multiple entertainment services, I think I can stay busy enough to turn down the least desirable gigs and still have a comfortable retirement.
In summary, I am NOT interested in playing for free or for tips. I am specifically interested in generating income.
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Pat, Thanks for the kind words. I would like to address this statement: Quote:
I understand that purists like you will tend to look down on people like me who pursue music as a business rather than as an art.
There’s nothing wrong with approaching music as a business and making decisions to improve your chances of being successful. Learning the skills required to do all the things you’ve mentioned takes not only musical talent but technical expertise and drive. I admire and respect that. It’s an absolute necessity for musicians who are trying to make a living with music by playing local venues.
I hope you’re successful at doing just that.
As far as being a “purist”, I’ve never really thought of myself as that but I definitely lean in that direction. Even though I listen to and like a wide variety of music, I’m still drawn to actual instruments in the traditional sense.
Wood and strings, … brass and wind. Electricity for amplification and lighting. LOL.
Synthesized and quantized music, … not so much. But that’s just my personal preferences and even I make exceptions and listen to it occasionally.
I am encouraged by the depth of talent that I’ve seen on the acoustic scene from young people like Sierra Hull, Sarah Jarosz, Chris Thile, etc. It confirms to me that what I light heartedly call “real music” is alive and well in the hands of a few young musicians.
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Pat,
I wish you luck with your music business. You are in an area with a lot of possible venues, so you should do well.
Having said that, I must disagree with this statement: "The gear required to be a band, solo act, DJ, karaoke act is 90% the same."
A single act can usually get away with a very small PA, maybe even a single powered speaker and a small mixer, a mic and a stand, or one of the Bose systems. A DJ, on the other hand, is going to need a lot more thump, which would include two larger mains and a pair of subs, and the amps to drive them. Powered speakers or power amps? Bi-amped? Going to need a Driverack? Rack for rackmount gear? Big difference in cost and size. Another consideration is the venues you expect to play. Small, large, indoors or outdoors? These each have their own challenges audio-wise. A system that is adequate in a restaurant may be totally worthless on an outdoor stage.
If you plan to cover so many bases (single, DJ, Karaoke) you are probably going to need two systems - one small and one killer thumper. You aren't going to carry a pair of subs in your car along with mains, amp rack, guitars, etc.. Now you're into a trailer, and all the associated costs that go with it.
I'm not trying to throw cold water on your plans. Just saying that you might want to start small and go from there. You might find that you can get all the restaurant work you can handle as a single, and drive to gigs in your car.
You say that you want to do this as a business - then you might want to keep detailed records of your expenditures: equipment, gas, vehicle maintenance, etc. so you can figure out your ROI. It also helps to keep a "book" containing every contact you make, manager's name and number, every gig you play, and to keep track of future bookings.
I know that advice is cheap, and I don't want to meddle, but having done this for a long time, there are mistakes I've made that I would hope you could avoid.
Regards,
Bob
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There are always disagreements when it comes to the artists verses the business side of things. Was George Benson not an artist? A lot of pros say no but he laughed all the way to the bank. How about Kenny G? Whatever your view you must admit that both were musicians. You may not like their approach to music but they were musicians. I ran a weekend warrior wedding band for years. Our approach was always business. No pay no play. We were so busy that we had to turn down gigs. Why, because we played what they wanted to hear. If we played what we want to play we would have no far less gigs, if any. So did we sell out? PS – that is why today I refuse to gig, even though I have opportunities to do so. I want to play what I want to play now and with BiaB I can! Retirement does have some rewards 
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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Thinking back, I'm pretty sure that every musical group I've ever performed with consisted of a buncha clowns.
Yours Truly Inclusive.
--Mac
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Quote:
Thinking back, I'm pretty sure that every musical group I've ever performed with consisted of a buncha clowns.
Yours Truly Inclusive.
--Mac
 So true here also
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Quote:
Quote:
Thinking back, I'm pretty sure that every musical group I've ever performed with consisted of a buncha clowns.
Yours Truly Inclusive.
--Mac
So true here also
I still resemble that remark!
PS: Know who was a clown? That Charlie Brown!
Later,
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Quite a few acts mix real stringed instruments, guitars, bass, also sometimes real horns, with keyboards today and more often than in the past, those keyboards are... MIDI keyboards.
Just sayin'...
--Mac
I fully agree, but 90% of the time a person is PLAYING those keyboards, and the midi is triggering the sounds that the musician is inputting in real time.
And when it is being used to generate a backing track is a FULL band setting there are enough live musicians to cover it. By default the live musicians make the midi "breath" some, due to the human element that is playing over top of the midi. It is not the same in a solo or duo setting IMHO.
My comment was about using midi backing tracks to perform over, just letting them play while folks strum or sing over the top of them. In that situation midi is not something that will make me want to sit thru 4 hours of a show.
Your demo of Peg for the SD2 is one of the RARE exceptions to the stiff sounding Midi that folks are use to, but truth be told I have never heard a solo-duo OMB that had that level of quality all night...and even with the great sounds of the SD2, it still sound's "synthetic"....but WAY more bearable than most out there.
At the end of the day it boils down to how you want to spend your money, listening to an artist/duo + midi, listening to an artist/duo + Real Tracks, or listening to an artist/duo + studio musicians from their release playing in the background....we will take the last 2 any day. Of course there is also the choice of listening to an artist/duo raw with NO backing tracks at all, which is totally acceptable!
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totally depends on your definition of success. if Alice Cooper's goal was to make some music, play a bunch of large venues, sell lots of records, become wealthy and literally become a pop icon, then I'd have to say that was a total success! and while I am not a Lady Gaga fan, I have watched her perform and what she does is pretty amazing. try wearing an exotic outfit and dancing vigorously around the stage while also belting out a tune to an audience of 30,000 some time! no offense but I don't see how it is useful to denigrate entertainers like Gaga or Alice Cooper. if you don't like their stuff don't buy it.  JMO...
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...I fully agree, but 90% of the time a person is PLAYING those keyboards, and the midi is triggering the sounds that the musician is inputting in real time...
I can easily Record to MIDI data the live performance and have a permanent record of that which will play back *identical* to the live performance.
Is the problem then one of whether or not there is a human being present and playing in realtime?
If that performance were to be played over the radio or as an underscore for a motion picture, would you really be able to tell?
Quote:
And when it is being used to generate a backing track is a FULL band setting there are enough live musicians to cover it. By default the live musicians make the midi "breath" some, due to the human element that is playing over top of the midi. It is not the same in a solo or duo setting IMHO.
Pianos, Clavinets, Rhodes pianos, Wurlitzer Electric Pianos, Vibes, Marimbas, Xylophones, Harpsichords, Organs, in other words using keyboard to emulate existing keyboards or mallet instruments, which is done ALL the time in commercial recordings and has been done for quite some time, there are virtually no differences that can be heard provided the player of same knows how to play them.
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My comment was about using midi backing tracks to perform over, just letting them play while folks strum or sing over the top of them. In that situation midi is not something that will make me want to sit thru 4 hours of a show.
I don't view that as a fault of MIDI itself. That's just a poor performer in poor performance in my view.
Quote:
Your demo of Peg for the SD2 is one of the RARE exceptions to the stiff sounding Midi that folks are use to, but truth be told I have never heard a solo-duo OMB that had that level of quality all night...and even with the great sounds of the SD2, it still sound's "synthetic"....but WAY more bearable than most out there.
Thanks. I strive to get that in ALL of my MIDI stuff. So do many other MIDIOTS. From that one example you surely can see that realism, give or take, the excitement of music, dynamics, phrasing, timing, etc. is not a fault of the medium itself. The real reason people are prejudiced against MIDI is because they likely only have the reference of free downloaded MIDI files made by people of all stripes. Those people are not working in Hollywood, they are not selling underscores or jingles or industrial musics or commercials or hit songs, where MIDI is used quite a bit and for good reason. And, in the right hands, it sounds what you designate as "real".
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At the end of the day it boils down to how you want to spend your money, listening to an artist/duo + midi, listening to an artist/duo + Real Tracks, or listening to an artist/duo + studio musicians from their release playing in the background....we will take the last 2 any day. Of course there is also the choice of listening to an artist/duo raw with NO backing tracks at all, which is totally acceptable!
I look for Strong Performance. The tools don't matter. If they can turn in Strong Performance beating on trashcans, fine with me.
But another performance might be rather poor using those same trashcans.
I don't blame the trashcans for that.
Your problem is not with MIDI itself. Your problem has to do with poor performance on MIDI stuff.
I hear plenty of poor performances with the ubiquitous flattop acoustic guitar.
I don't blame the guitars for that.
--Mac
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You're listening to the wrong acts JCS and it's like Mac said, you can't judge midi from listening to some schlep playing a pos freebie downloaded midi file through a $50 synth.
I drove to Vegas last year on business and at night checked out a few places. A lot of the lounge acts on the Strip are using tracks and that was the reason for the big musicians union strike about 25 years ago. The big casinos started phasing out the pit orchestras in favor of a few players running the midi tracks. Needless to say the union lost and the reason was those tracks are absolutely first class, the orchestra was not part of the show they're in the pit so it might as well be recorded, and the audience could care less, they're watching the stage. The performers are basically singing to a music video. Nobody's actually playing anything live in a music video either.
I deliberatly wanted to get off the Strip and check out some other places so I went to a big beautiful Marriott hotel resort casino about 10 miles west. The really sad thing there was they had a single guitarist playing in the big open air bar that is sitting right in the middle of everything. This guy was terrible plus there was no stage, no lights and no sound system. It literally was exactly the same as countless little bars around here with a stumming guitarist setting up with a little PA doing a single. This guy was using some kind of simple midi file player and the midis were crap, the sound was crap and his voice was barely acceptable. Somebody there actually had to book this guy, what were they thinking? Years ago you had to submit a nice promo package to your agent, they might actually fly in to see you live and then you might get a gig in Vegas. I still can't get over the fact I would see something like that in a Vegas casino. Someone mentioned to me that once you get off the Strip Vegas truly sucks. From watching that guy for 5 minutes I can believe it.
Bob
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Mario,
IMHO the toughest gigs in the marketplace are weddings. Like you we did them back then when I worked with a full band but now my business cards state the following: Music for "Almost" any occassion . . . I do not play weddings.
Later,
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We all sucked at one time. As we age we will all suck again. Are you going to give up playing? I doubt it. Be gentle to the folks that are just trying to have fun or trying to do their best to make an extra buck for there family.
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Quote:
Pat,
I wish you luck with your music business. You are in an area with a lot of possible venues, so you should do well.
Having said that, I must disagree with this statement: "The gear required to be a band, solo act, DJ, karaoke act is 90% the same."
A single act can usually get away with a very small PA, maybe even a single powered speaker and a small mixer, a mic and a stand, or one of the Bose systems. A DJ, on the other hand, is going to need a lot more thump, which would include two larger mains and a pair of subs, and the amps to drive them. Powered speakers or power amps? Bi-amped? Going to need a Driverack? Rack for rackmount gear? Big difference in cost and size. Another consideration is the venues you expect to play. Small, large, indoors or outdoors? These each have their own challenges audio-wise. A system that is adequate in a restaurant may be totally worthless on an outdoor stage.
This is good advice... part of the reason I want to spread out is because I have so much gear that it exceeds what I would need for any one type of venue. I bought my PA from a DJ who was moving. It has thump if I need it.
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If you plan to cover so many bases (single, DJ, Karaoke) you are probably going to need two systems - one small and one killer thumper. You aren't going to carry a pair of subs in your car along with mains, amp rack, guitars, etc.. Now you're into a trailer, and all the associated costs that go with it.
I have a truck with an enclosed/lockable bed for hauling gear. The people I am hooked up with for providing a full band do have a trailer with everything imaginable in it. If there was ever an outdoor gig, it would most likely be with the whole band.
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I'm not trying to throw cold water on your plans. Just saying that you might want to start small and go from there. You might find that you can get all the restaurant work you can handle as a single, and drive to gigs in your car.
I agree completely!. One thing at a time, see how it goes. If I can keep it simple and make some money, that would definitely be the way to go. But if I find myself losing out to DJs, I am not above fighting fire with fire. Gotta adapt!
Quote:
You say that you want to do this as a business - then you might want to keep detailed records of your expenditures: equipment, gas, vehicle maintenance, etc. so you can figure out your ROI. It also helps to keep a "book" containing every contact you make, manager's name and number, every gig you play, and to keep track of future bookings.
I know that advice is cheap, and I don't want to meddle, but having done this for a long time, there are mistakes I've made that I would hope you could avoid.
excellent words of wisdom! Thanks!
Regarding ROI... most of the investment has already been made. What remains to be seen is the return part.
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"If that performance were to be played over the radio or as an underscore for a motion picture, would you really be able to tell?"
But I am not talking about a recording that you hear on the radio, in a movie, or as "muzak" in the mall, I am talking about paying to see a live act that uses midi as their band. Studio editing is a everyday thing, tune the vocal, cut & paste the 3rd chorus to the first because it's better, lock the drummer to the grid, etc...all part of today's studio experience.
So spending a few days making a midi track sound great is in the job description by default really.
"Your problem is not with MIDI itself. Your problem has to do with poor performance on MIDI stuff. "
100% correct, and that is all that matters when someone is asking I pay a cover charge + 2 drink min for the pleasure of listening to them. I would rather hear a bad solo act giving it 100% for 4 hours than a great duo with crappy backing tracks, at least the one that stinks is making an effort, where the ones using the bad midi don't care enough to do it right, or they might not even know the difference....
But if a Real Track style fits the tune, the only way it can sound bad is if they either....
1. Stretch it beyond where it should be, or...
2. Don't enter the correct chords.
Bottom line, I just don't spend my $$ where it stinks is all!
And sorry for the derail Joe V, this is FAR from your OP. I will bow out now....
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I've paid to see many great live acts where MIDI keyboards, even MIDI pickups on guitars were part of the act. They sounded great. Earth, Wind and Fire is one such example, the "new" outfit that's been going around. While I think that the old lineup did the singing a bit more to my liking, the use of the wireless guitar jack and a guitar tech hidden away sending MIDI amp/cab/effects at just the right moments let the guitarist be free to just play and dance. The keyboards? M-Audio 88 key pro controllers, could not see any of the great MIDI patches heard on the stage at all, presumably again there was at least one keyboard technician backstage, maybe not. BUT -- covering all their great old songs and having the exact right sounding keyboard patch when needed sounded great. To my ears, anyway.
Local bars, 'nuther story anyway. That scene needs to die the death it is creating for itself and that's not a fault of MIDI at all. I've seen a few rather poor performances going on in the local venues with not a single MIDI anything involved. And, yes, I've witnessed the mess when there's the one performer with the usual guitar and the MIDI files likely downloaded for free from the Internet and played back on everything from pocket sized mp3 players to laptops loaded with sequences. Believe me, the MIDI files are only one part of their problem. The fact that they can't hear how bad they sound should speak volumes for how little they know about the craft, but typically their playing and singing abilities say it all, whether they used MIDI or not wouldn't help.
Maybe you should find out how much money they're not making.
--Mac
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Back on topic, more or less, there's a venue near me where there is a stage. It is a restaurant. So I inquired of the young lady who manages the place.
She told me that an act has to be able to guarantee her that it will bring at least 40 people, customers, with it before she will book.
I told her that my band is what attracts customers to her venue, that she had it the other way around.
Of course, she sat there telling about the last two bands bringing in their 40 people each, turns out one band consists of four young lawyers and they brought their wives and employees to what turned out to be one of their TWO gigs per year.
I tried to remain polite, left the promo package and smiled, told her that if she ever wanted real entertainment to feel free to call.
Performing in local venues, the paradigm has changed. Not so much about the actual performance quality itself anymore.
Today, such is someone's hobby.
There are other venues to pursue.
--Mac
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Quote:
I hear plenty of poor performances with the ubiquitous flattop acoustic guitar.
I don't blame the guitars for that.
Mac, I have to say you offer lots of great advice and insights on these forums. And this is one of those points. I had not really thought of it this way and probably should give midi more consideration than I have! Thanks!
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Mac, maybe 2 years ago at the jazz gig we used to have at the beach we were talking to another club owner who was there about a possible booking. All he asked for was our website with links to our social media pages like Facebook, Soundcloud, Twitter and the like. Of course we're a bunch of old farts and don't have any of that. Since he was there listening to us already wasn't that enough? No. We offered to get him a CD for his manager to hear and he just laughed, it was obvious we just dropped our pants. It was like what's a CD? What he does is simply check out how many "friends" the band has. He expects to see several hundred knowing that any given night maybe 10-20% will show up. He did say he really liked us though. Right.
Bob
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Bob, Quote:
maybe 2 years ago at the jazz gig we used to have at the beach we were talking to another club owner who was there about a possible booking. All he asked for was our website with links to our social media pages like Facebook, Soundcloud, Twitter and the like. Of course we're a bunch of old farts and don't have any of that. Since he was there listening to us already wasn't that enough? No. We offered to get him a CD for his manager to hear and he just laughed, it was obvious we just dropped our pants. It was like what's a CD? What he does is simply check out how many "friends" the band has. He expects to see several hundred knowing that any given night maybe 10-20% will show up. He did say he really liked us though. Right.
Bob
Based on that comment and a few hundred other comments on this forum over the past 2 or 3 years, it sounds like the status or level of respect that was previously accorded to “musicians” has dropped a few hundred notches’.
If we just take into account the conversations we’ve had on the “Off Topic” forum about what constitutes a “musician” and the willingness of so many forum members to call people “musicians” when they can’t even play an instrument, is it any wonder that the general public devalues people that actually have the ability to play “live” music without electronic aids?
I took a lot of flak on here for suggesting that only people who can play traditionally recognized instruments that don’t require electricity deserve to be called “musicians”. (Aka wood and strings, … brass and wind). I was out voted.
Since the musicians on this forum have willingly devalued actual “musicians”, why should we be so surprised that the general public has done the same?
Just some food for thought.
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The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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