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#192019 - 01/26/13 12:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Total Noob question: is it possible...
LtKojak Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Milano, Italy
... to generate MIDI data from the playing of a RealTrack?

Specifically the drum track.

Yes? No? Maybe? It depends...?

I'm all ears!
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#192020 - 01/26/13 01:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: LtKojak]
av84fun Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 388
Quote:

... to generate MIDI data from the playing of a RealTrack?

Specifically the drum track.

Yes? No? Maybe? It depends...?

I'm all ears!




You forgot one choice..."I don't know."...which is my answer. (-:

But I'm curious as to why you would want to and that answer might help others to help you.

Best,

Jim

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#192021 - 01/26/13 01:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: av84fun]
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
LtKojak,

This will probably interest you.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...true#Post372978
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#192022 - 01/26/13 04:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: LtKojak]
flatfoot Offline
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Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 2180
Loc: Sacramento CA
These videos explain how to copy Real Tracks in a way that will yield MIDI data. Never mind that they seem to be talking about Ukulele. It works with any Real Track that has Realchart notation. It will not work with drums, because as far as I know none of the real drums tracks has notation.

http://screencast.com/t/8zrPgQIDln

http://screencast.com/t/8bM45o68dr

http://screencast.com/t/rF8aaAXU

The videos are found on this support page:

http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm


Edited by flatfoot (01/26/13 04:15 PM)
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#192023 - 01/26/13 05:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: flatfoot]
LtKojak Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Milano, Italy
It's a shame it doesn't work with drums.

Oh, well... would've been too easy, isn't it?

You need to make MIDI Super Tracks with Drums too.

Are you listening, Peter?
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Milano, Italy
https://soundcloud.com/theodore-kojak/tracks
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#192024 - 01/26/13 08:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: LtKojak]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Don't know if there are any Drum Supertracks in our future, but we already have Live MIDI Drums in many of the MIDI styles. These were made using a live drummer playing a MIDI drumkit and, of course, recorded as MIDI and then placed into the Style.

On top of that, to get MIDI drums, typically all you have to do is load a MIDI style and go to the RealDrums control panel and turn off the "substitute realdrums" command at the top. The Green Drums will turn to Yellow, indicating that a MIDI part is playing on the Drums track now.


--Mac
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#192025 - 01/29/13 12:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: Mac]
LtKojak Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Milano, Italy
Quote:

Don't know if there are any Drum Supertracks in our future, but we already have Live MIDI Drums in many of the MIDI styles. These were made using a live drummer playing a MIDI drumkit and, of course, recorded as MIDI and then placed into the Style.

On top of that, to get MIDI drums, typically all you have to do is load a MIDI style and go to the RealDrums control panel and turn off the "substitute realdrums" command at the top. The Green Drums will turn to Yellow, indicating that a MIDI part is playing on the Drums track now.


--Mac




OK, so HOW can I distinguish between a Real Track style and a MIDI one?

Is it written somewhere and I my old, tired eyes didn't notice it?


Edited by LtKojak (01/29/13 12:11 PM)
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#192026 - 01/29/13 12:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: LtKojak]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
In the Stylepicker, Realtracks styles are identified by an underscore (_stylename) in front of their name.

This underscore will also show up in the Style slot on the main page view of BB,


--Mac
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#192027 - 01/29/13 12:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: LtKojak]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6480
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Quote:

You need to make MIDI Super Tracks with Drums too.

Are you listening, Peter?




No, Peter does not need to make any midi drum Super Tracks. Why you ask? Because the whole reason for Real Drums is it's a real player playing a real drum kit. A real player playing a midi drum kit is not even close to a RD track because you're hearing whatever midi drums your synth has. Look at what you're using as a synth now and hear what a midi drum track sounds like. A drum Super Track will sound exactly the same, true a Super Track may have better patterns or something but the actual sound quality itself? Whatever your synth's midi drum kit sounds like. Unless you're using one of the top line drum sound modules like EZDrums or Jamstix, midi drums all sound like crap. Some of the Sampletank midi kits sound pretty good but midi drums are nothing like hearing a real drummer playing on a real drum kit.

Bob
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#192028 - 01/29/13 03:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: jazzmammal]
LtKojak Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Milano, Italy
Quote:

Quote:

You need to make MIDI Super Tracks with Drums too.

Are you listening, Peter?




Quote:

No, Peter does not need to make any midi drum Super Tracks




And who are YOU to say what Peter may or may not to do? What are you his agent or something?

And why the attitude?

Quote:

Why you ask?




Because I'd like to know. What is wrong with that, huh?

Quote:

Because the whole reason for Real Drums is it's a real player playing a real drum kit. A real player playing a midi drum kit is not even close to a RD track because you're hearing whatever midi drums your synth has. Look at what you're using as a synth now and hear what a midi drum track sounds like. A drum Super Track will sound exactly the same, true a Super Track may have better patterns or something but the actual sound quality itself?




So you don't approve PG Music make Super Midi tracks, I suppose? You must be very angry, as Peter did not ask for your permission to proceed, isn' it?

You should know that feature alone made me upgrade from v. 12.5 to v. 13.

Quote:

Whatever your synth's midi drum kit sounds like. Unless you're using one of the top line drum sound modules like EZDrums or Jamstix, midi drums all sound like crap.




You don't know who I am, or what I use, or what my needs are.

If you're not capable to make a midi drum track sound good, it doesn't mean others can't do it, Bob.

This lame post is based on the wrong assumption that everybody is like you and have the same needs.

Got news for you, Bob. I'm NOT like you at all!
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#192029 - 01/29/13 03:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: jazzmammal]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10904
Loc: Hamlin NY
Quote:

but midi drums are nothing like hearing a real drummer playing on a real drum kit.

Bob




I will respectfully disagree with you here Bob. If you google midi groove clips you will find a number of excellent midi drum grooves that are played unquantized by real drummers on a midi drum set. Groove Monkee http://www.groovemonkee.com/en/ comes to mind to name one. These are not loops but actual midi recordings done live, much like RTs. Of course with Midi it is much easier to manipulate the drum parts not to mention that you can also put each drum on it’s own track and, depending on your sound source, it’s own midi channel.

I will agree that you do need a good sound source, not just for drums but for all instruments. GM doesn’t cut it.
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#192030 - 01/29/13 06:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: Mac]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

Don't know if there are any Drum Supertracks in our future, but we already have Live MIDI Drums in many of the MIDI styles. These were made using a live drummer playing a MIDI drumkit and, of course, recorded as MIDI and then placed into the Style.

--Mac




Read that again.

Now read this, taken from the BiaB FAQs:

Quote:


105. In the StyleMaker, what is the difference between a drum grid pattern and a live drum pattern?

There are two types of drum patterns - (1) patterns that you input into the drum grid editor, and (2) "live" drum patterns that are imported from MIDI files, usually after having been recorded using an external synth/drum machine.

Many of the newer Band-in-a-Box styles use live drum patterns, which are identified in the main StyleMaker window with a red outline around the pattern. To edit an existing live drum pattern, select the pattern and click on the Notation button to open the StyleMaker Pattern Editor. You will notice that each different MIDI note is for a different drum sound. Live drum patterns cannot be edited using the drum grid editor.

To record a new live drum pattern, you must first record the drums outside the StyleMaker. You can use either Band-in-a-Box or a MIDI sequencer such as PowerTracks Pro Audio. Save the recording as a MIDI file, then use the Pattern | Import Pattern from MIDI file command to import it into the StyleMaker.

Note that by default all drum patterns are 4 beat (1 bar) patterns but you can specify any live drum pattern to be an 8 beat (2 bar) pattern by checking the "2 bar pattern OK" box in the Pattern Options dialog.





Invoking a Style that uses MIDI Live Drums, we can utilize MIDI synths that tout great drum samples in them, some rivaling the sound of RealDtums.

Exporting the Live MIDI drum track to a fullblown sequencer, such as RealBand or Powertracks, we can even separate the drum intruments to different tracks and record a different sound to audio from each one. This can be really good to do for certain Rock, Latin and other genres where you wish to be able to both control the drumkit by the individual instrument, as well as the ability to apply audio effects to just one drum instrument, for example, the Kick.

--Mac
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#192031 - 01/29/13 07:21 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: Mac]
cubanpete Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 1186
Loc: Florida, USA
I agree with Mario as far as the good existing grooves in midi format out there. I have a few of those and using the right drum synth (i.e. EZDrummer for instance)makes the heck of a difference, they sound very natural and convincing, as they should, since they are recorded by actual drummers.
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#192032 - 01/29/13 08:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: cubanpete]
cubanpete Offline
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Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 1186
Loc: Florida, USA
Correction...EZDrummer is not a synth, I should have said "a VST" instrument. Do not want somebody confused.
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#192033 - 01/29/13 09:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: cubanpete]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
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Ivan?.? Was he just here?
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#192034 - 01/30/13 12:46 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: John Conley]
boydbob Offline
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Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 90
I am one of those people with MANY top-of-the-line sound modules, and generally I prefer the sound of those MIDI modules over Real Tracks, Not to mention being able to easily edit MIDI tracks. I frequently slice & dice real tracks in my Sequencer, but that's another story.

Real Tracks are great for quickly putting together a professional sounding performance, but when I'm polishing that "Fabulous New Song" I go with MIDI as much as I can.
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#192035 - 01/30/13 11:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: boydbob]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6480
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Pepe, sorry I didn't mean to set you off buddy. Yes, lots of midi drum tracks can sound very good I have Jamstix, Sampletank and other synths all with good midi drum kits. What I use them for is to create certain fills and song specific punches to blend in with a Real Drum track. I know all about working with midi drums but even excellent midi drums still can't hold a candle to a good Real Drum track in my opinion and the opinion of probably 95% of the posters on this forum.

A lot of this depends on what kind of music you're into. Some styles lend themselves to midi drums and they sound very good but other styles don't regardless of what midi synth you use. The styles most popular here include jazz, classic rock, country and latin. I can listen to a song in any of those styles and can tell in about two seconds if it's using midi drums or Real Drums. You may not have been posting here Pepe when the Real Drums first came out about 5 years ago. The difference is huge and every one of us posting right now in this thread said the same thing at the time. The first set of RD's created an absolute sensation around here.

All I meant to say was after all that and how excited we all were to have RD's and all the comments about how the RD's alone (this was before Real Tracks) made all the midi instruments sound so much better, creating midi drum Super Tracks seems like we'd be going backwards not forwards because you can get all the killer midi drum loops you want from all over the place including like Mac said, inside Biab itself. That capability is already there and we were already doing everything we could to make the midi drums sound better until the RD's came out and changed everything.

There are a few here and maybe you're one of them, who prefer working with midi because of the precise editing ability and that's perfectly ok, I like that too but the reason I said Peter doesn't need to bother with midi drums is because I know the history here and I doubt very much if new midi drums would get many people excited about it.

Also, I just personally hate when someone uses that phrase, "are you listening, Peter?" You're assuming everybody thinks that, that this has been a problem for years and Peter has just been ignoring you. That's pretty presumptuous on your part, don't you think? Just simply say your request and your thoughts about it, leave out that "are you listening" part.

Bob
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#192036 - 01/30/13 11:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: jazzmammal]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Thinks about SuperMIDI drum SOLOS, though...
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#192037 - 01/30/13 12:03 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: boydbob]
LtKojak Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Milano, Italy
Quote:

I am one of those people with MANY top-of-the-line sound modules, and generally I prefer the sound of those MIDI modules over Real Tracks, Not to mention being able to easily edit MIDI tracks. I frequently slice & dice real tracks in my Sequencer, but that's another story.

Real Tracks are great for quickly putting together a professional sounding performance, but when I'm polishing that "Fabulous New Song" I go with MIDI as much as I can.




That's my process EXACTLY, to the last comma.

Boyd, you're a man after my own heart.

Thank you for the answer. After hearing Bob's words, I thought that I'd become a freak of nature. Now I don't feel so alone anymore.

Thank you again!

Yours very truly,


Edited by LtKojak (01/30/13 02:28 PM)

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#192038 - 01/30/13 02:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Total Noob question: is it possible... [Re: jazzmammal]
LtKojak Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Milano, Italy
Quote:

I just personally hate when someone uses that phrase, "are you listening, Peter?"




Looks like the "tongue in cheek" sense given by the EMOTICON I put at the end of the phrase just flew over your head.

Quote:

You're assuming everybody thinks that, that this has been a problem for years and Peter has just been ignoring you. That's pretty presumptuous on your part, don't you think? Just simply say your request and your thoughts about it, leave out that "are you listening" part.




And now you're lecturing me by assuming I'm assuming what you think I'm assuming?

Am I the only one that sees the irony here...?

I'm sure you mean well...
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