|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367 |
In the posts of several forum members, you mention that you have Helicon vocal processors. To drive my VoiceLive Touch, when using RB, I typically take a piano track and duplicate it. I then mute the sound, strip the controllers and send that to my VoiceLive Touch via a midi out from my MOTU midi interface.
Now that I'm getting into BIAB, thanks to Mr Warren's ReDirect, I'm wondering how to drive the Touch from BIAB. Unlike RB, you only have limited number of tracks in BIAB: Bass, Piano, Melody, Thru, Strings, Guitar and Solo. To drive the Touch, I'd need one of these that has chords or melody right? But then if that track is being used, I'd lose that track from my mixif I direct it to the vocal processor.
So how is it that you folks are driving your vocal processors in BIAB? Is there a way to duplicate a track in BIAB and, using the ReDirect, send that to the vocal processor?
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
BB has a command in the PREFS to "Send Chords" - that was placed there precisely for the reason of sending MIDI to harmonizer machines.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367 |
Great thanks Mac...going to check it out right now!
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826 |
You have a couple of options.
First, as Mac indicated, BiaB can send chords to a vocal processor. However, that only works if the 'Use DXi/VST' option is not checked. Under that scenario all your midi would need to go to your device chain. No redirector required.
Second, you can use my VSTi on a track and send the midi from that track to your processor. A melody track might be good here if you want note based control. If you want chord based control you'd need a track that plays chords exclusively. A piano track for example.
You are partially correct about whether you could also hear this track having my VSTi installed. You couldn't hear anything if you have no hardware synth in the chain. However, if you do have a hardware synth in the chain there should be no reason you can't hear it as well.
Finally, you could duplicate a track if you have one available. If not you'd be out of luck.
Hope this helps a bit.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Jeff,
if you get that to work, please contact me. I still have had no luck with the TCHelicon receiving chords in a way that changes the chord shown in the Voiceworks' viewer.
The MIDI activity light flashes, and the MIDI monitor tells me that the notes are being sent, but the chords don't change in the voiceworks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Pat, the chord data is probably being sent on a different channel than the Voiceworks is set to receive it on. That can be changed via the Voiceworks or inside BB, but I think it is likely easier and better to do it on the Voiceworks after you find out which channel is being sent from BB. Prefs Channels may help.
The MIDI indicator will blink if there is any MIDI data detected on any one of the 16 MIDI channels, but obviously cannot differentiate which of the channels the data is on, being only one blinking LED.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
Pat, the chord data is probably being sent on a different channel than the Voiceworks is set to receive it on. That can be changed via the Voiceworks or inside BB, but I think it is likely easier and better to do it on the Voiceworks after you find out which channel is being sent from BB. Prefs Channels may help.
The MIDI indicator will blink if there is any MIDI data detected on any one of the 16 MIDI channels, but obviously cannot differentiate which of the channels the data is on, being only one blinking LED.
--Mac
I have changed the Voiceworks' receiving channel to all 16 possibilities, double checked to make sure the redirect program was set to the same channel etc etc, over and over.
The MIDI monitor that comes with BIAB shows a clear record that the MIDI data is going to the right channel. Furthermore, the patch change commands are getting through and correctly changing patches (which wouldn't happen if I didn't have the receiving channel set correctly.)
I'm starting to think it has something to do with multiple ports. Next time I have free time, I'll remove all but one port from the chain and see if that makes a difference.
(I haven't tried the most recent version yet... maybe that will get me up and running)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
(I haven't tried the most recent version yet... maybe that will get me up and running)
Oh my. Pat, Pat, Pat, that's working against yourself.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367 |
I was able to get this to work last night, let me spend a few more hours with it again today to verify. Keep in mind, that I am using a an 8 port midi interface to do this so YMMV.
1. My Midi is setup as follows: Port 1 used for the audi interface exclusively. Port 2 used for the DX7 II with E! Port 3 used for the Fantom XR. Port 4 used for the Motf XS Port 8 used for the VoiceLive Touch. Be sure that all of your gear is turned on before starting BIAB.
2. In the BIAB Perfences, I set the "Output Channels" to "Output Chords" and set the midi channel to 1, the same as the VoiceLive Touch is set to receive on.
3. I've checked the "Use DXi/XST", in the "Midi/Audio Drivers" pull-down as well as the ""Route Midi trough to Midi Driver"
4. then in the VSTi button pull-down, using Paul's ReDirector, I've set the "Default Synth" to my Motif rack with "Forced Chaneel set to None". i.e all midi is going to the Motif. NOTE: here's for me is the break-through: Rather than selecting the the Yamaha Motif from the ReDirector pull-down , I select the port that the Motif is on. In other words, I select Port 4 and not the Yamaha Motif.
5. So far then, I have all the midi tracks going to the Motif through Port 4
6. Next, I click on the "Thru" button in the VSTi pull-down and using the ReDirector assign that to Port 8 (the VoiceLive Touch). This send the chord data selected in #1 above to the VoiceLive Touch. This is verified by seeing the midi light flash on the VoiceLive Touch when playing a song. The odd thing though is that it doesn't flash on every Touch preset...just some of them.
So still have some work to do on this: 1. why doesn't the Touch show midi on every preset, even though I can see midi data going by using the midi data indicator in BIAB; 2. why can't I see midi data indication on the Redirector even though the Port shows activity.
I'll work on it more later today...but that's where I stand now..........
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826 |
Ok, I think I've figured this out and it's a brain twister of the first magnitude.
First, if you DO NOT have the 'Use DXi/VST Synth' box checked your chord data will be sent to the selected midi port (in Midi Opt) on the channel you indicate in 'Prefs|OutputCh'. No mystery here and there's no need for my midi redirector. All you need do is make sure your VoiceWorks is receiving on the channel you set in OutputCh.
If you DO have the 'Use DXi/VST Synth' box checked things are a lot more complicated . The bad news is you will need one empty track. The good news is it can be your Thru track if no others are available and assuming you don't want to use it for a controller.
First make sure the midi output port is set to 'No Midi/Sound Output' so no ports are held open. Make sure you have an appropriate default synth selected (at this point don't use my redirector in the default slot).
Next, you must decide which empty track you are going to use and check the 'Prefs|Channels' dialog to see which channel it uses. As an example I have the Thru track set to channel 5. Now go to 'Prefs|OutpuCh' and set the chord output to channel 5.
Now, in the Synth Dialog, add my redirector to the Thru track and set the midi port to the one your hardware is connected to. The Status LED should light up. Now set the 'Forced Midi Channel' to 9. Now your chord data should go to the Thru track on ch 5 where it will be forced to Ch 9 and go to your VoiceWorks via the redirector. It does with mine and I was able to verify this with midi yoke/midi ox monitoring BiaB output.
If you want to use a blank track other than the Thru track use the same procedure but set OutputCh to the channel of the alternate track.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826 |
I just finished testing this final scenario. Supposing you want to send most of your midi data to a hardware synth and just one or two tracks to a software synth. And you want you chord output to go to your VoiceWorks.
First set the Midi Output port to NONE in midi Opt and make sure 'Use DXi.VST' is checked. Then put my redirector on the default synth slot. Set the output port to the one your hardware is connected to. You will need a hardware synth in the chain along with your Voiceworks if you want to hear the midi output.
Next, put a soft synth on the tracks you want to use.
Finally, make sure OutputCh is set to 9 (or whatever channel your VoiceWorks receives on). You will also need to make sure none of your other channels is set to the same number.
Now click play and you should be set. Note however that I had a lot of latency using this setup as the hardware synths are much faster than the software synths. I wouldn't reccomend this unless your entire system is super fast.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367 |
Yes, I can verify that Paul's method above also works on my system using multiple hard synths and select VSTi's at the same time in the same song. I am now showing midi data being received on all presets in the VoiceLive Touch. A point that I first missed was setting the output channel in both Opt/Preferences/Channels as well as setting the same channel in Opt/Preferences/Output Channel.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367 |
Do have another question. When setting up the Ouput Channel to use chords, is it better to set the chord types up to Triads&7th's or Complex Chords?
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Triads/7ths for most work. Save the complex chords for the jazz, like think Manhattan Transfer.
Of course, I encourage experimentation here, might sound good to have complex harmonies in a rock song...
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367 |
If you are using complex chords, assuming that these would be chords with extensions beyond the first octave, would you then also have to adjust the midi note number limits in the Output channel screen? What note range would you recommend to be used in that case?
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Jeff, I think that may depend upon the particular machine.
What I would do in that situation is experiment. Shouldn't take too long to figure out what sounds best in a particular situation.
And the machine itself may have some built in "intelligent" algorithms regarding that note choice as well.
For example, there may be other control parameters besides just the chord type that the machine incorporates, such as "one up and one down" harmony, or "two down" etc. -- and that would limit the number of voices available right there.
The way to understand and be able to use ANY piece of equipment, hardware or software, is to spend some time experimenting, going through the "shakedown" runs and finding out not only what can or cannot be done, but getting that all-important "feel" for the machine. To me, that is part of the fun of these things.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Paul,
apparently my problems are not related to your plug at all. I can't get it to change chords even from RB where it has always worked in the past. Time to start swapping cables and maybe try the other voiceworks in hopes of isolating the core problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 362
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 362 |
Have used the T C Helicon Voice Works for years and have taken up the "misunderstandings" between BB and VW, allthough both campanies claim they follow international MIDI protocols. In many instances (but not all the time) a Cmaj7 becomes an Em7, or an C6 becomes an Am7. Sofar this bug has not been taken out.
Any other users with the same problem?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Hi tonnie,
Misidentified chords like the ones you cite are often a case of how a particular algorithm is invoked.
Some programs look at the lowest note of the chord and call that the Root. This is actually a correct way to do it as the Music Theory supports that.
However, an inversion of the basic triad will have either the 3rd or the 5th on the bottom of the note stack.
Therefore your example of a Cmaj7 being misidentified as an Em7 likely means that the inversion of the Cmaj7 sent to the thing has the E note on the bottom. At least it doesn't identify it as an Em#5.
As far as the harmony goes, your two given examples would still at least contain the right harmony notes to fit the actual chords, though. Singers singing the Em7 would be singing the Cmaj9 without the root. May or may not be what you desire to hear, though, that added 9th...
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,367 |
Mac, I do have another question then based on your comments to Tonnie. If you select "Output Chords" in the OutPut Channel pull-down in BIAB; doesn't BIAB always output those chords in root position? I guess my understanding was that even if an inversion is played, the output from BIAB would be in root position. Is this not the case?
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,620
Posts735,182
Members38,517
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean