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Joined: Oct 2007
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"Prodigy" wasn't my point Mac. It's whether or not kids are welcomed into the fold and allowed to play a song or two even if they're NOT prodigies.
You don't have to be a child prodigy to make a mark on a musical genre.
It's easy to welcome a prodigy into the fold, but does a particular genre welcome the "wannabes" who are willing to work?
And being welcomed into the fold DOES NOT mean "watch and learn"
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Don't forget that "jazz bands" are a staple of a lot of middle schools and high schools throughout the country. There are a lot of youths being exposed to a lot of the jazz standards. What this means for the genre, I am not sure, but I have really enjoyed the last few high school jazz band concerts that I have attended.
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I will put another plug in for one of the best documentaries I've watched in years: http://chopsfilm.com/author/chopsfilm/I had it on Netflix a few months back - I don't know if it's still on Netflix or not. Well worth your two hours. -Scott
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Bob, (aka jazzmammal), Since you posted that great clip of “Catwalk”, this one’s for you. Here’s what happens if you take an aging bluegrass “child prodigy” and team them up with a great jazz bass and a great jazz guitar player: Mark O'Connor, John Patitucci and Julian Lage: Live on Soundcheck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK9Vzdjtxtg&list=PL614C5812372A83A9&index=152
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Or if you're really lucky, this might happen. (Actually it did happen just a few miles down the road. I've had the privilege of playing on that stage twice, ... but it never sounded like this). Hot Swing Trio (2004) Mark O'Connor - Violin Frank Vignola - Guitar Jon Burr - Bass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4kvzWLSDT4&list=PL614C5812372A83A9
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Journeyman
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I'd agree with that. Even in free form jazz there has to be lyricism which is why it quickly became apparent who were the real artists in that genre and who were the shuckers and jivers.
Jazz was never a natural home for strict atonality. The best modern jazz seems to be more pan-tonal in nature and is influenced in no small measure by the theories of George Russell and the example of Ornette Coleman.
What these guys did was free the jazz soloist from the tyranny of having to outline the chords, creating space for developing a line based on melodic and rhythmic motifs.
But it came at a price as not everyone was confident or talented enough to know what to put in the place of a regular harmonic structure.
The only problem was that too many cottoned onto the solutions Coltrane was finding with modes, sheets of sound, long solos that were more about texture than linear development. The rest as they say is history!
As to what the definition of modern means in jazz today means is different for each audience. In the USA there's a definite tendency to see smooth jazz and fusion as the leading genres. In Europe there's more of a 'jazz as art music' thing happening with a lot more borrowing from classical folk and the avant garde. The kind of music you see on the ECM label for example.
Alan
Last edited by alan S.; 05/23/13 05:45 AM.
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This is awesome Bob and absolutely I would call this fusion jazz. The best description I can think of about this is it's just plain fun. Then there's In The Cluster Blues, what can I say Mark O'Conner is one bad dude. I've copied both of these vids into my YT download folder. Great stuff. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I'm glad you liked it Bob. I've seen Mark perform live umpteen times, but the best for me was when I actually got to meet him. I had just gotten my custom Martin guitar a month or two before and Mark was doing a meet and greet at the Merle Watson Festival. I handed him my guitar and told him it was brand new and asked if he would break it in for me and show me how it was supposed to be played.
He spent the next 15 or so minutes burning the strings off of it and then smiled and handed it back to me and simply said "Nice guitar".
I did get him to autograph my case and it's sitting next to my desk as I type.
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Mark knows and can play darn near every Bebop tune ever written.
Again, it is a rite of passage.
--Mac
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IMO....
My music of preference is likely far more narrow than most here.
I'm no aficionado but I'll give a bump.
I've heard some jazz over the years that I find quite appealing and not as 'chaotic' sounding as others.
My dislike of jazz rears it's head when the notes/scales/key changes gets into an aimless frenzy of improvisation.
Increase the tempo 120mph and I lose more interest
It can sound like rapid, self indulgent noodling rather than a lyrical sounding song with a coherent melodic theme that gets revisited at certain points in the song.
So...maybe I just prefer the lighter (dare I say 'smooth') jazz renditions by default.
Should be interesting to here other responses.
That's my take on your query.
Carry on....
EDIT: my comments are not a reflection of the level of musicianship of jazz musicians....a 'level' that I will never achieve in this lifetime. Aha, I've got a name for what you are describing. I call it the "Sprint Scale Exercise School of Music Style" and no doubt about it, it takes incredible skill to be able to play these notes so damn fast, but it is not very Lyrical. My wife calls it JimJam and she does not care for it much. Neither do I, but I sure would love to have the chops to play that fast : ) [i][/i]
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There is no more wrong with jazz than there is with any genre. Some good, some mediocre, some bad. What is good or bad is decided by the listener because that is his/her world. It all boils down to taste. When you mention sales statistics is just goes to show that people are not buying music to listen to, but as background noise or group experience, or just to dance to. Like the tv in some homes, it's always on but nobody watches.
You don't need to be a musician to be able to listen to music, but you need to be able to listen. Hey Man, Well said! Thanks,
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I will put another plug in for one of the best documentaries I've watched in years: http://chopsfilm.com/author/chopsfilm/I had it on Netflix a few months back - I don't know if it's still on Netflix or not. Well worth your two hours. -Scott It's still available on Netflix Instant View (streaming). Thanks for posting it.
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Hi Alec, Let me begin by stating my thoughts are in response to your beginning thread only. I find there are so many sub genres within Jazz. https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/jazz-insights-media/id405935692This site has a lot of insightful knowledge about the genre and its origins. This is for those who wish to get a good overview of Jazz in short, easily explained lessons and examples. I agree with your point on the solo. It should be the interpretation of the soloist as they navigate the chordal sequence. It is the job of the soloist to look outside the box of what has already been established by the melodist. To your last point on CD sales, we have to consider the internet has expanded the exposure to music as well as artists not normally found in a typical record store. I would not put much stock on retail sales, including downloads, to determine the pulse of interest. I believe the jazz artists never did give it much consideration either as their goals were much different than to score a top 10 hit. However unlike the popular music genres classical, blues, & jazz have a far more loyal following. The disposable nature of pop music and its fans blow through artists faster than a tornado. Hence the reason for the larger record sales. I think of it this way. Who will be buying Justin Bieber music 10 years from now? Who can tell me the million record seller of ten years ago and what music they are making today? Yet, people are still downloading music from artists of these more obscure genres you mentioned that have been dead for decades! So, it is a matter of perspective. Cheers!
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