Page 4 of 4 < 1 2 3 4
You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#206621 - 06/16/13 09:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: Lawrie]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7548
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: Lawrie


Hi Pat,
I would argue that while this would seem to be correct, it is because of an artificial, imposed preference.

It is my OPINION that the recording companies have, to a very large extent, dictated the tastes of the buying public by simply not making available anything other than what they want to sell. E.G. where do commercial radio get their source material..?




good point.
I agree completely. Thanks for making that distinction, it makes the discussion more accurate.

Top
#206639 - 06/17/13 03:07 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: Pat Marr]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2224
there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a formulaic approach to writing songs to target them at the marketplace if that is what you want to do. calling those songs "dumbed down" is elitist and unnecessary (sorry Bob!)

likewise there is nothing wrong with being a virtuoso creating music so complex that only you "get" it! calling those songs "dumbed up" ("smarted up"?) would be equally wrong.

we should all create whatever we want without feeling all superior or being made to feel inferior.

so, back to the original question, for me the act of creating music and performing it is mostly an emotional pursuit. if you can connect with folks (or just yourself if that is your goal) and make them smile or cry or feel something then IMHO you have succeeded whether you did it with 3 simple chords or you wore out the neck of your guitar with your amazing jazz hands!

Top
#206640 - 06/17/13 03:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: Pat Marr]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2224
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
Originally Posted By: Lawrie


Hi Pat,
I would argue that while this would seem to be correct, it is because of an artificial, imposed preference.

It is my OPINION that the recording companies have, to a very large extent, dictated the tastes of the buying public by simply not making available anything other than what they want to sell. E.G. where do commercial radio get their source material..?




good point.
I agree completely. Thanks for making that distinction, it makes the discussion more accurate.



I think it is far more likely that what they have always been doing is producing records, watching what the public responds to and then producing more of that until something new comes along. In that scenario is IS the public who is deciding what we get to listen to!


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (06/17/13 03:12 AM)

Top
#206641 - 06/17/13 06:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Lawrie Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 1439
Loc: NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn


I think it is far more likely that what they have always been doing is producing records, watching what the public responds to and then producing more of that until something new comes along. In that scenario is IS the public who is deciding what we get to listen to!

Hey John,
I'm not sure if you have a point or not...

On the one hand, in the very early days of commercial recording I would think the recording companies probably concentrated on those performers that were drawing crowds.

BUT, when the "talent scouts" started looking for groups that were cheap to record then they most certainly started dictating taste...

As a f'rinstance, I play in several groups. One is a pretty good Big Band. Many of our audiences include kids who rarely, if ever, get exposed to the music we play. They get blown away by our sound, which is in many cases completely foreign to them.

Big Bands cost to record and to hire - a quartet is wa-ay cheaper than a 17+ piece big band...

Which leads me to my pet peeve: A rhythm section does not a band make - for ME, ya gotta have a front line too wink
_________________________
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya laugh --=--
You're only paranoid if you're wrong!

Top
#206642 - 06/17/13 07:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: Lawrie]
GDaddy Offline
Expert

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
or perhaps..the ever-present solo pianist...especially if he's Bill Evans! i.e. "April in Paris"...a few posts back....
_________________________
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.


Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3

Top
#206646 - 06/17/13 10:07 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7548
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a formulaic approach to writing songs to target them at the marketplace if that is what you want to do. calling those songs "dumbed down" is elitist and unnecessary (sorry Bob!)

likewise there is nothing wrong with being a virtuoso creating music so complex that only you "get" it! calling those songs "dumbed up" ("smarted up"?) would be equally wrong.

we should all create whatever we want without feeling all superior or being made to feel inferior.

so, back to the original question, for me the act of creating music and performing it is mostly an emotional pursuit. if you can connect with folks (or just yourself if that is your goal) and make them smile or cry or feel something then IMHO you have succeeded whether you did it with 3 simple chords or you wore out the neck of your guitar with your amazing jazz hands!


I should probably stop "talking for others", explaining what they meant... but in this case I will at least say what *I* thought the person meant.

When people talk about "dumbed down" music, they aren't necessarily talking about ALL commercial music, because nearly everything we all like is exactly that.

*I* think the term is used to describe what happens when the music becomes a MUCH lower priority than the money.

I can't verify it, but I've heard of a famous experiment in which a chimpanzee was left in a room with art supplies. He found them amusing and would entertain himself for hours making intricate marks on the paper. So they decided to see what would happen if they positively reinforced his efforts with food. Once he realized there was a link between the scribbles and the food, he'd spend barely enough time to make a scribble before presenting it for food.

IMO, the same thing happens with people. You get different results when art is your passion and when money is your passion. But some people who are good businessmen are also good musicians, so its not true across the board.

Top
#206647 - 06/17/13 10:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: Pat Marr]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7548
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
regarding the studios dictating what the public hears:

There are LOTS of bands whose music could appeal to a large enough audience to make money if their work was internationally distributed and promoted by the fat cats.

I've often suspected that the ones who DO get promoted are those who are willing to sign a really disadvantageous contract. Then the company milks them for the length of the contract, and dumps them if they try to negotiate a better contract

Hopefully the internet is making it possible for artists to promote themselves.


Edited by Pat Marr (06/17/13 10:16 AM)

Top
#206650 - 06/17/13 10:31 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: Pat Marr]
floyd jane Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 6157
Loc: Florida
"Commercial" is not a dirty word.

Commercial does not equal BAD. I'm not saying that there is not bad commercial music - of course there is, there is plenty of it. But to dismiss it all is certainly narrow-minded by definition.

There is QUALITY commercial music. And to produce it requires a set of skills that not every musician has.

So, one might actually say that musicians/songwriters who do not produce "commercial" music are actually "lacking some skills".
_________________________
125+ BIAB Songs

Top
#206652 - 06/17/13 10:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: floyd jane]
90 dB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4720
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
"Commercial" is not a dirty word.

Commercial does not equal BAD. I'm not saying that there is not bad commercial music - of course there is, there is plenty of it. But to dismiss it all is certainly narrow-minded by definition.

There is QUALITY commercial music. And to produce it requires a set of skills that not every musician has.

So, one might actually say that musicians/songwriters who do not produce "commercial" music are actually "lacking some skills".








Duck and cover! Duck and cover!!!!!! shocked shocked shocked
_________________________
Dyslectics Untie!


https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/90-db



Top
#206658 - 06/17/13 12:10 PM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: 90 dB]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7548
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
So, one might actually say that musicians/songwriters who do not produce "commercial" music are actually "lacking some skills".


Duck and cover! Duck and cover!!!!!! shocked shocked shocked


<ScoobyDoo>
   RUH-ROH...ROOKOUT BEROW!
</ScoobyDoo>


Edited by Pat Marr (06/17/13 12:10 PM)

Top
#206670 - 06/17/13 03:06 PM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: Lawrie]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2224
Originally Posted By: Lawrie
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn


I think it is far more likely that what they have always been doing is producing records, watching what the public responds to and then producing more of that until something new comes along. In that scenario is IS the public who is deciding what we get to listen to!

Hey John,
I'm not sure if you have a point or not...

On the one hand, in the very early days of commercial recording I would think the recording companies probably concentrated on those performers that were drawing crowds.

BUT, when the "talent scouts" started looking for groups that were cheap to record then they most certainly started dictating taste...

As a f'rinstance, I play in several groups. One is a pretty good Big Band. Many of our audiences include kids who rarely, if ever, get exposed to the music we play. They get blown away by our sound, which is in many cases completely foreign to them.

Big Bands cost to record and to hire - a quartet is wa-ay cheaper than a 17+ piece big band...

Which leads me to my pet peeve: A rhythm section does not a band make - for ME, ya gotta have a front line too wink


Of course I had a point! laugh Let's see if I can state it real simple for ya...

1) Record companies produce music.
2) People buy the music (or don't)
3) Record companies rinse & repeat based on #2

There is of course no doubt that record companies (like all big business) wanna make the most money possible so they will milk an artist or genre as long as we buy it. But as soon as we stop buying it they move on to the next one. But they do not have a crystal ball or inherent knowledge of what will sell in advance. Nor do they have special mind powers to control what we buy! It is all about watching the trends and filling those needs. Of course it certainly helps them when much of the consuming public are lazy and willing to buy whatever is on the end cap! smile

And with all due respect I personally don't believe the lack of popularity of Big Band music is the fault of the record companies! I think tastes have changed over the years.

Top
#206672 - 06/17/13 03:12 PM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: floyd jane]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2224
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
"Commercial" is not a dirty word.

Commercial does not equal BAD. I'm not saying that there is not bad commercial music - of course there is, there is plenty of it. But to dismiss it all is certainly narrow-minded by definition.

There is QUALITY commercial music. And to produce it requires a set of skills that not every musician has.

So, one might actually say that musicians/songwriters who do not produce "commercial" music are actually "lacking some skills".


I agree 100% Floyd! It has always bugged me when friends say this artist of that artist "sold out" for commercial success as if there was some imaginary land of righteous music production and to try another genre or target the pop charts was somehow less noble! I always call bulls%#t. So Clapton tried some reggae/pop and produced a nice little hit song. And Fleetwood Mac changed their lineup, abandoned their roots and produced a couple of chart-busting albums. Good for them I say!


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (06/17/13 06:24 PM)

Top
#206676 - 06/17/13 04:20 PM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: ROG]
pghboemike Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 2458
my favorite version of this song
_________________________
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit 16GB RAM casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
casio wk-7500
biab & realband 2017 everything pk both with Current builds

Top
#206707 - 06/18/13 12:15 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Lawrie Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 1439
Loc: NSW, Australia
Hi John,
I guess I'm falling into the same trap as most others do in trying to oversimplify things - there is no one simple explanation for the situation.

Nevertheless:
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn

And with all due respect I personally don't believe the lack of popularity of Big Band music is the fault of the record companies! I think tastes have changed over the years.

tastes HAVE changed - and I happen to believe more than a little of the change has been driven by the big labels. YMMV wink

I do think it's telling that younger people who hear us for the first time generally enjoy the genre and start coming back for more.
_________________________
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya laugh --=--
You're only paranoid if you're wrong!

Top
#206715 - 06/18/13 02:10 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: Pat Marr]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2224
Hi Lawrie,

Yeah, me too! smile I'm always hoping for one single theory of music and music business to unite them all!!

It is really nice to hear that young folks come to hear you and enjoy the music. Of course, if they are anything like the young folks in the USA, regardless of the genre, they don't seem to be willing to actually pay for any of it these days! laugh

Top
#206721 - 06/18/13 03:20 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Lawrie Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 1439
Loc: NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
<snip>
Of course, if they are anything like the young folks in the USA, regardless of the genre, they don't seem to be willing to actually pay for any of it these days! laugh


Ain't that the truth! cry wink
_________________________
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya laugh --=--
You're only paranoid if you're wrong!

Top
#206748 - 06/18/13 10:19 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn

It is really nice to hear that young folks come to hear you and enjoy the music. Of course, if they are anything like the young folks in the USA, regardless of the genre, they don't seem to be willing to actually pay for any of it these days! laugh


I was in a bigband, local, we played an outdoor parks concert near the beach, there was this large crowd of young people dressed like punk rockers there, by the end of our set they were partying to the music something wild.

Looked out there during one of the encore numbers and saw this large group of kids who were pogo dancing and some were even slam dancing to -- "In the Mood"

Stick together guys, we can all sneak out the back way...


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

Top
#206750 - 06/18/13 10:52 AM [Off-Topic] Re: discussion: from YOUR point of view, is music an intellectual or emotional pursuit? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7548
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Hi Lawrie,

Yeah, me too! smile I'm always hoping for one single theory of music and music business to unite them all!!

the closest thing I've found to a "unified theory" of music is Peter Gannon's tag line...

Quote:
It is really nice to hear that young folks come to hear you and enjoy the music. Of course, if they are anything like the young folks in the USA, regardless of the genre, they don't seem to be willing to actually pay for any of it these days! laugh


<broken record>

which is part of thereason why I'm specifically gearing up to play music for baby boomers. It isn't just recorded music the young 'uns won't pay for. They are conspicuously absent from most of the live music venues I've attended recently. My son says its because people his age would rather stay home and stream netflix.

Boomers, on the other hand, not only pay for their recorded music, they also go out to hear it. (at least, that's been my observation)

</broken record>

Top
Page 4 of 4 < 1 2 3 4


PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box®: Part of The Ultimate Desktop Guitar Practice Rig!

Check out the latest Sweetwater article from Mitch Gallagher: "The Ultimate Desktop Guitar Practice Rig" - he's included Band-in-a-Box!

"The king of backing track creation, in my opinion, is Band-in-a-Box (BIAB). It can do everything from country to jazz to metal, with a huge array of instruments and options. There is a great selection of songs and BIAB tracks available for free on the web, so you don’t even have to make your own."
-Mitch Gallagher
www.sweetwater.com

#TBT - The First Audiophile Edition

A blast from the past... the introduction of the Audiophile Edition with Band-in-a-Box 2008.5!

The first Audiophile purchase included the WAV files for all the RealTracks & RealDrums that were available at that time: RealTracks Sets 1-9 and RealDrums Sets 1-20. It shipped pre-installed on a 250GB USB hard drive - take a look...

Wondering what else was introduced with Band-in-a-Box 2008.5? Click here to see the "Band-in-a-Box 2008.5 New Features List."

RealBand 2018 Interactive Online Upgrade Manual Available!

The newest addition to our Online Manuals support page is the RealBand 2018 New Features Guide!

Just like the other Online Manuals now available on our Support page, this Upgrade Manual can be easily navigated by chapter, or using the main Table of Contents window!

New Interactive Online Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Manual for Mac!

We've added an Online Manuals option to our Support page, where you can access an interactive online Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac User's Guide!

The Online Manual can be easily navigated by chapter, or using the main Table of Contents window! Also available on our Online Manuals page is the PDF files for Band-in-a-Box® 2017-2018 Full manuals & Upgrade manuals.

User Feedback - Run as Administrator

Our Forum is a great resource for all your Band-in-a-Box questions (and a GREAT place to connect with other program users!)

Among the many forums available, we have a User-to-User Tips & Tricks forum - perfect for sharing your own technical tips and tricks for any PG Music product!

Like the recent post by jford: You Should Run BIAB and RealBand As Administrator!

Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest - Over 25 Entries!

We recently launched an Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest with 4 prizes of $150!

So far, there are more than 25 entries! Have a listen to these entries and submit your own song here.

Contest Rules:
-You must own Band-in-a-Box® 2018 along with one or more of the Xtra Styles PAK 5 packages (Country, Jazz, Rock-Pop, MIDI)
-The song you submit must be your own original composition. This could be simply typing in chords to your song and pressing play, but you may also add additional instruments, solo, and/or melody.
-Public domain songs will be accepted.
-Multiple entries are permitted.
-Submit your song to the "Xtra Styles 5 Contest" forum, before the deadline. (This contest runs until September 30th)

For complete information on this contest, click here.

New Online Band-in-a-Box and RealBand Manuals

Do you hate digging around for manuals as much as I do? Now you can access the most recent Band-in-a-Box® and RealBand manuals with just a few clicks on the new Online Manuals section of our website.

The PDF manuals for version 2017 and 2018 are available now. Plus, we're adding online versions of these manuals too! The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Windows User's Guide is complete, and the Mac User's Guide will be coming very soon. We're even adding a search feature to make it even easier for you to find features that you are looking for - stay tuned!

Forum Stats
27965 Members
57 Forums
53942 Topics
445514 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
visioncl, Graybones, kikesh, RedVampirePrince, rockmarcus28

27965 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Alyssa - PG Music 482
David Snyder 147
Al-David 142
MarioD 122
Deryk - PG Music 115
Matt Finley 101
Jim Fogle 97
Janice & Bud 97
VideoTrack 96
Tangmo 89
Today's Birthdays
Helmut Neidig, Pekstrom