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I do not know!
I thought (inferred) his Fake Books used "PG factory" styles?
He might desire/recommend BETTER Norton styles but I didn't think they were the default requirement.
Good question need to find out before I buy any of his Fake Disks
PS out of curiosity - how does that song SOUND with PG style I mentioned
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 07/01/13 03:44 PM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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I will try it now.... Very nice, works well - I also subbed in a Real Bass and guitar comping part - REAL nice  Re the other, I might even ask Bob while I have his attention if one also needs to buy his styles to get a 100% match. Thanks Larry Dennis
Last edited by joden; 07/01/13 04:03 PM.
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Well it looks like it may be a PG Music issue. The style supposed to load is #J~WLTZ1.STY but after a search of the BB directory (factory default installation) there does not appear to be any styles that start with the prefix #
And the Norton website says no user styles are used, only factory ones. So it cannot be a missing "user" style. That stylename is definitely a Norton style. May be a typo, might be something else, but Bob Notes Norton is a great guy who frequents this forum from time to time, for years, and I'm sure he'll get you straightened out. --Mac
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Thanks Mac, yeah the support has been good. Just for the record, at his end the BN song loads as a 3/4. But then in his first reply he referenced that # style as a possible reason. But as I have learnt here, I find those are proprietary styles of his. Now, no probs at all with that, but as I just wrote him, I expect that if the website says the disk was set up using only factory styles, and that they all faithfully follow the book (and I 100% believe that btw), then I sorta kinda expect a 3/4 tune will load as a 3/4 tune, the actual style itself is not really an issue. That's all. But you are correct he does seem a straight up guy Dennis
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The problem was a Norton Jazz style was chosen and since Dennis didn't have that style it reverted to zzjazz, which is a 4/4 style. The solution would be either to choose a jazz waltz from his own collection or purchase a Norton Style. I never said I only use PG styles, in fact, quoting from my web site "I also suggested a style for each song from all the styles that were available for Band-in-a-Box when I compiled this disk. It is not necessary to have the book or my styles to enjoy this disk, but your fun will definitely be enhanced if you do." Let me make this clear, you do not have to purchase Norton Music styles to use my fake disks. You don't have to have all the PG styles either. If you don't have the style assigned to the song, simply substitute one of your own. When I do my fake disks some Norton Styles and some PG Music styles are used - I try to get whatever is best for the song. Here is the long answer from one of my info pages:When I wrote my first fake disk, I used only the built-in styles that came with Band-in-a-Box Pro. I immediately got requests from many customers to choose the best style from all the styles available for Band-in-a-Box.
I asked them, "What if you don't have that particular style?"
They answered, "We will just substitute one of our own. We have nothing to lose and something to gain if you tell us which style you like best."
So in an effort to please my customers, starting with Fake Disk #2, I suggested a style for each song from all the available Norton, and PG Music Style Disks available at that time.
Here is how I did it.
When I compiled my fake disks, I asked experienced, professional musicians to assign the styles to the songs. I asked them choose (suggest) the best style for the song from all the PG and Norton music styles available. I also asked them not to play favorites to either my styles or PG Music's.
When they were done, Leilani and I sat down, listened to all the songs, triple checked for any errors, made adjustments to chords that we thought didn't sound right due to the limitations of Band-in-a-Box, and in rare cases overruled the style choice of the person who assigned the styles for the disk.
Some songs have been done in so many ways over the years, that many different styles fit equally well. In those cases, only one style had to be picked. You might find others that work better for your taste in music.
Since the styles were chosen from the available styles at the time we compiled the disk, a more appropriate style may have been written since then -- also, you may not agree with our choice. In either case, you can simply change the style.
If you don't have the style chosen for any particular song, click the 'song...' button to open the song picker window. In the column titled "Style" you should see the style chosen for that song. If the style name started with the # sign, it's a Norton Music style.
1) If you don't have that style, you can go to http://www.nortonmusic.com/styledemo.html and find out what disk it is on. In many cases you can also listen to a low-fidelity demo of the style so you can hear if you have a similar style in your collection of styles.
2) If you like you can either purchase the fake disk that style is located on, or purchase a single style or multiples of single styles of your choice.I guess there is no one best way to compile a fake book for everybody, but this way seems to be the way to get the most accurate rendition of the song possible at the time the book was compiled. Some of the songs are so true to the original, and jump through so many hoops to get that way, than Leilani (who does most of the work on the fake disks) has been called "The Band-in-a-Box Goddess". If you don't believe me, check out the demo on this page http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake32.html and see what I mean. It's in BiaB's SGU format and contains no copyrighted melody or lyrics. It sometimes takes Leilani one full day to make a song like the one in the link above, but in the end it's worth it. You can also make your own fake disk. Anybody with a few thousand hours to spare can. What we offer is a time and work saver and nothing more. Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 07/02/13 12:05 PM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Thanks Bob, but I think the problem is that that song actually referenced one of your styles (most likely an unintentional one that slipped through the "proofing" stage), which is why it is not loading a BIAB factory jazz waltz. In any case as I wrote you earlier, by using a "suggested" style from the styles available with BIAB at the time of compiling the book, is ipso facto the same thing (ergo it means you only used factory styles) yes? Look it is not a major issue...as I said it was the first book I bought, and I had onyl got to the letter B before a glitch. Now, at home this is a minor annoyance only as one can scan styles to pick one to replace, but if I am at a gig with your Fakebook disks loaded, and I get a request for some obscure tune from one of the books, I sort of expect it will at least load with the correct time signature. The actual style is not as important as I have all the parts apart from bass and drums muted out anyway, the time sig is critical for me. Please don't misunderstand, I am not "bagging" the disks at all, I think they are a brilliant concept and well done, but before I go further I just need to reconcile that I am probably going to HAVE to go through each and every entry to ensure they load with the correct song data. The other alternative (which is not unappealing  )is to also buy your styles disks...I am also considering that solution as well As you may recall from my emails, I have 15 fakebooks all of which you seem to have a Fakebook disk for so it is a major investment, and I want to be sure before I proceed down that path. Dennis
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Bob/Notes, about this:
"The problem was a Norton Jazz style was chosen and since Dennis didn't have that style it reverted to zzjazz, which is a 4/4 style."
I had thought about that case when I first read this thread, but from a long time ago (decades) I thought that BIAB would substitute a waltz style if the song were in 3/4 and the requested style was not present. Perhaps that's wrong?
Joden, add my name to the testimonials for the good quality of Bob's work.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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...but from a long time ago (decades) I thought that BIAB would substitute a waltz style if the song were in 3/4 and the requested style was not present. Perhaps that's wrong? That is wrong Matt. It's in the Preferences window where you can pick any style you want to use as a default if the style embedded in the song does not exist on your system. And unfortunately you can only pick one and the program doesn't care what the song's time sig is. It's just one of those things that falls into the category of hey, nothing's perfect. Joden and others, Notes could decide to only use PG's styles but then there's still tons of folks out there who didn't buy the full MegaPak or are still running an older version and don't have all the styles so the same problem can still crop up. You want him to only use the ancient 25 year old styles that everybody will have? Trust me I fully understand why we all like to be lazy sometimes but it's still up to you to be properly prepared for a gig. All it takes is a minute or less to check any one song so even if you have 500 potential songs you can still easily start at the top, do 10-20 a day and have them all done in a few weeks. Or, brew a big pot of coffee and blow them all out in a weekend. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Yes, when my customers asked me to pick the best style, they meant out of PG and my own styles. When the people called (that was before Internet) I asked a lot of questions, including using other people's styles other than mine and the most common answer was just use mine and PGs.
Some of the callers let me know that they didn't have all the PG styles either - and they would pick one of their own that was close if they didn't have it.
There is no right way to do this that would satisfy every customer. So from all the calls I got in the early days, I chose to use whatever style works best with the song from all the PG and Norton styles to date. That's what my customers seemed to want.
In other words, the music rules, everything else is secondary.
Look at it the other way. If there is a perfect match that is a Norton style, and I chose an excellent PG style that happened to be a mediocre choice for that particular song, is that a better way to do it?
Since there are more PG styles than Norton styles, the odds are in favor of picking a PG style. But in many cases, a Norton style does a better job for that particular song.
This is perhaps because I try very hard not to duplicate any PG styles. If they end up not significantly different or IMHO an improvement over the PG style, I see no reason to fix what isn't broken.
My aim is not to compete with PG Music, but to add value to BiaB. Don't buy my stuff instead PG goods, buy them to add to PG's products.
Most of my customers who buy once, come back for more, so I guess I'm doing something right.
I'm a dedicated PG Music fan, and have been since I discovered BiaB on my Atari, when BiaB/PC (we called it IBM back then) was still a DOS program. I've watch it grow and grow since then, and believe that I'm doing something that does not compete with BiaB, but instead makes it more valuable.
Unfortunately, unless you have all the PG styles and the Norton styles, the fake disks are not 100% plug and play. But then I think most of us like to mess around with BiaB anyway, it's one of the things that make it different from the music-minus-one files.
So if you want to do "Misty" as a jazz waltz with a swing B section, in BiaB you can do that (I was in a band that did that a long time ago, and it was fun).
OK I'm rambling and waxing nostalgic now, so I'll stop.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I might add that, with many of the Realtracks Styles, we can indeed use a 4/4 style in a 3/4 song and it will play as 3/4 and often sounds great.
Experiment.
--Mac
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Bob/jazzmammal, you are right. Thanks.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I chose to use whatever style works best...... from all the PG and Norton styles to date.......
That (in bold) was the part I missed in reading the website - where the actual text is: I also suggested a style for each song from all the styles that were available for Band-in-a-Box when I compiled this disk. It is not necessary to have the book or my styles to enjoy this disk, but your fun will definitely be enhanced if you do.page link: http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake24.htmlOkay so now it is 100% confirmed they DO use some proprietary styles in the fakebooks, that explains why this song did not load. It also confirms there could be quite a few more, so I need to be prepared for it. Oh and @ Bob, I get what you are saying, and for 500 songs , yeah mebbe do-able, but I am talking about 15 fakebooks, which is a LOT more than 500 songs Dennis
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Hi Dennis,
Are you going to take all 15 fake books to the gig? If so good luck.
FWIW- This is what I would do. In fact this what we did in our wedding band. First know your audience. Are you going to play bar gigs? Weddings? Both? Chirstmas parties or retirement parties?
Once you define your audiences pick out around 100 or so songs that they would like then pick your BiaB styles for those songs and learn the songs. When a request comes in that you don’t have state that you will learn that one for the next gig. Then do it. You will build up a working repertoire this way.
Like I said that is how we did it, except we did not use BiaB. We used humans so a couple of appropriate fake books did the job for us.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi Mario,  nope I don't use paper anymore They are all PDF'd on my iPad. I have been playing live gigs for about 27 years now so I guess I have a reasonable idea of how it all works but I am always open to new ideas  My "working" rep is about 975 songs and counting. I rarely play the same set twice. Keeps my personal interest level set at high, and forces me to keep on my toes as far as songs go. IE no complacency can set in, and each time I do a tune it still feels new - sorta kinda  Dennis
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"Notes"
My apologies, I may have added to the confusion with my post, and my inference of "PG only styles." It wasn't intended to put a bad light on your products. Obviously, caused by my not reading ALL your web site text. [But it is a little like reading the contraindications on all my meds and I take almost as many meds as you have styles! (that was a good natured rib - before hate posts start)]
But you have cleared it up here, and in your email to me earlier today.
And as you can tell from my earlier order today: after all these years with BIAB, also since DOS days, I FINALLY bought a few of your Fake Disks AND a fairly good covering of your Power User Style disks - playing with them now.
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Dennis,
The question I would ask you is, do you actually plan to buy ALL 15 matching Norton Fake Book Disks? If so, bless your heart for adding to the economy!
In any case, I do wish you well and good luck!
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 07/02/13 07:07 PM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Hi Dennis,
Great name BTW. It’s my middle name!
Anyway when I wrote my previous message I didn’t know if you did or didn’t play any gigs yet. It sounds like you are another old pro at it! So I hope you didn’t take any offense in it!
You have about 3x the amount of songs in your rep as in ours. But we did jam a lot on stage in just about any genre there is. That is the only part of playing out that I miss. That is why I am having so much fun with BiaB. I can play what I want when I want to play it.
Have fun at your gigs.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Dennis,
The question I would ask you is, do you actually plan to buy ALL 15 matching Norton Fake Book Disks? If so, bless your heart for adding to the economy!
In any case, I do wish you well and good luck!
Larry
Yes I was considering it Larry - but I have now found a couple of tags missing in some tunes as well, no biggie, but just another thing I would need to edit. Bottom line is though, ALL the chords are entered which takes 90% of the work away I just think it would be nice to have all my books matched up to BIAB. And the cost is tax deductable after all Jury is still out though, as I don't play ALL the tunes in the books. But I will probs still look at the "box" set Dennis
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Hi Dennis,
Great name BTW. It’s my middle name!
Anyway when I wrote my previous message I didn’t know if you did or didn’t play any gigs yet. It sounds like you are another old pro at it! So I hope you didn’t take any offense in it!
You have about 3x the amount of songs in your rep as in ours. But we did jam a lot on stage in just about any genre there is. That is the only part of playing out that I miss. That is why I am having so much fun with BiaB. I can play what I want when I want to play it.
Have fun at your gigs.
I knew I liked you for a reason Mario Nah m8, no offence at all. Yes, it is the one thing I miss - playing with people and not just a PC...you want change, just yell out (or in some cases look). We didn't need to pre-plan anything. Just everyone knew the head and the changes and we just ran with it. Pop and rock songs, jazz or country didn't matter. All were treated the same. BIAB is brilliant (and the Norton disks are tempting) and I LOVE playing along with the Real Styles and Drums, but it "aint quite the same" I think you get what I am sayin' Dennis
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I've gone paperless on the gig myself - my laptop holds more charts than my ring binder notebook ever did. Still, I think it's very brave to go on the gig with BiaB and a bunch of fake books. But then the idea of being able to cover thousands of requests is very enticing. If I were to do that I'd be sure to have all the PG and all the Norton Styles - it's expensive but the old saying is "you have to spend money to make money". If I was to take the time to scan each chart, I'd also take the time to listen to each song. But that's me. I'm not as brave as others But, there is more than one right way to do almost everything.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
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Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,587
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Jan 19th, 2020
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