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#349645 - 05/13/16 10:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar [Re: VideoTrack]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2142
BIG +1 !!!!

This seems like such an obvious and relatively easy one to tackle!

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#349653 - 05/13/16 11:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar [Re: VideoTrack]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17214
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Sure, I'll +1 this again.

I like the suggestions by VideoTrack for the additions to the Count-in dialog. And I agree, I don't want to make it so complicated that this becomes hard for PG Music to implement. Having said that, I think it needs to offer something like these checkbox options:

__ Count-in will be played
__ Specify numbers of measures for count-in (pulldown)
__ First bar has emphasis on every second beat only (multiple bars only)
__ Count-in uses beat pattern in this number of measures (pulldown)
__ Play count-in when spacebar pressed in measure one

Something along these lines, not that I've provided a complete list. Note: the forum software doesn't seem to allow me to indent. The second checkbox would be indented and grayed out if the first is unchecked etc.
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#349919 - 05/15/16 06:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
VideoTrack Online   content
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
))))) BIG +1 !!!! This seems like such an obvious and relatively easy one to tackle!

Yes, I thought it would be relatively straightforward, but apparently it must have them stumped.

Sigh. Well, we can only wish.

I've been a musician for a very, very long time, but I still can't get used to hearing a 4 beat count-in for a song that starts as a Jazz Waltz. Seems odd to still be doing this in 2016, doesn't it?



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#349939 - 05/15/16 10:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar [Re: VideoTrack]
Cerio Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
+1, of course

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#351440 - 05/26/16 03:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (FIXED in Mac version) [Re: Cerio]
zedd Offline
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Registered: 05/11/16
Posts: 483
Loc: Vancouver, BC
EDIT >> Please disregard this post. I tested the wrong thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I just tested this with 2 different Waltzes in BIAB 2016 (build 127) and it appears to be fixed. Proper 3/4 count-in.

Trevor, can you confirm that this is still broken in the Windows version, or has it been fixed?


Edited by zedd (05/27/16 05:12 AM)
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#351514 - 05/27/16 02:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (FIXED in Mac version) [Re: zedd]
VideoTrack Online   content
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: zedd
I just tested this with 2 different Waltzes in BIAB 2016 (build 127) and it appears to be fixed. Proper 3/4 count-in.

Trevor, can you confirm that this is still broken in the Windows version, or has it been fixed?

Hi Zedd
Thanks for the request
The problem is that if a song has a mixture of 4/4 and 3/4 time signatures and starts in 3/4, a style with a 4/4 time signature must be chosen.

The first bar is set to play 3 beats. But the count in is in 4/4.

You can download this sample SGU I just created that demonstrates the problem.

The Count-in that is set from Preferences is Global, not local to a song.

Try this on your system. Download the song and play it. It starts with the first 4 bars as a 3/4 and on the second 4 bars it changes to 4/4. Listen to the count-in, then start playing. Whoa!

BiaB checks the style to determine the count-in to use. All BiaB has to do is check how many beats are in the first bar, and use that as the count-in. Easy? Well, that's what I thought. Apparently this must be quite difficult. 3+ years, stacks of support, not one disapproval, and we're still waiting...

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#351531 - 05/27/16 05:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (FIXED in Mac version) [Re: VideoTrack]
zedd Offline
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Registered: 05/11/16
Posts: 483
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
The problem is that if a song has a mixture of 4/4 and 3/4 time signatures and starts in 3/4, a style with a 4/4 time signature must be chosen.

The first bar is set to play 3 beats. But the count in is in 4/4.

I'm so sorry to have troubled you with this. I wanted to +1 this thread, but thought I ought to try it out first to hear what's going on... but I forgot about testing something that had both 3/4 and 4/4 (which was the whole point).

Indeed it's not working, and could easily throw you off if recording or playing along. I wonder why this hasn't been addressed after all this time? It seems as though it should be such a simple thing to remedy.

+1 for fixing this.

Apologies again for my oversight. I read all the posts in this thread, and then proceeded to test the wrong thing like a nitwit.
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#351539 - 05/27/16 07:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (FIXED in Mac version) [Re: zedd]
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: zedd

I'm so sorry to have troubled you with this. I wanted to +1 this thread, but thought I ought to try it out first to hear what's going on... but I forgot about testing something that had both 3/4 and 4/4 (which was the whole point).

Indeed it's not working, and could easily throw you off if recording or playing along. I wonder why this hasn't been addressed after all this time? It seems as though it should be such a simple thing to remedy.

Hey Zedd, no need to apologize at all.

Your post gave me a chance to create a sample of the issue that PG Music staff can now listen to and hear for themselves how problematic it is <hint>.
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#351609 - 05/27/16 04:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (FIXED in Mac version) [Re: VideoTrack]
VideoTrack Online   content
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I'm still leaning to the idea also of making the count-in selectable on a song by song basis, rather than global (it's currently either Off always or On always). Some songs don't need a count-in.
Something like this would resolve:


Attachments
2016-05-28_08-54-10.jpg


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#353032 - 06/07/16 12:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (FIXED in Mac version) [Re: VideoTrack]
zedd Offline
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Registered: 05/11/16
Posts: 483
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Something like this would resolve:

That is a very sensible solution Trevor. That ought to be fairly easy to implement, and seems like an essential addition.
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#353052 - 06/07/16 05:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (2600+ views) [Re: zedd]
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: zedd

That is a very sensible solution Trevor. That ought to be fairly easy to implement, and seems like an essential addition.

Thanks to you for also lending your support Zedd. Yes, this can't be an impossible challenge, and it is only asking for what a real musician would expect in "real-world" conditions.

So, I'm going out on a limb here. Someone has to. Let's imagine you were in a band, and the band leader supplied a 4 beat count-in but expected you all to start playing 3 beats in the bar. No? I guess you can't imagine that. I certainly can't.

What would someone from PG Music play if they were in that band?

I'm going to keep pushing this, because what happens currently is just fundamentally wrong. This is not about improvement. It is about program "problem resolution" (note: I restrained myself from saying the "B" word, even if that's what it is.)

Imagine if Roland or Yamaha did this with their Arranger Keyboards. Imagine if a 3/4 song on their system started with a 4/4 count-in. No? You can't imagine that? Well, neither can I. If Roland or Yamaha did that you'd probably take it straight back to the shop. But that's exactly what BiaB currently delivers. Is that really musically OK? Think about it.

I have only ever tried to provide support, suggestions for improvement, and positive ideas to PG and his staff, and to offer ideas to better the product. My suggestions are supported not by 'just talk' but by demonstrated "real world examples". I can only hope that someone from PGM is listening. This is too important an issue to walk away from.

If you agree with rectification of product issues, then don't be afraid to lend your support, OK?

We all will benefit (PGM too...).

Trevor
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#353094 - 06/07/16 10:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (2600+ views) [Re: VideoTrack]
Cerio Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
+1000 again.

Fixing obvious problems like this (please note that I also haven't pronounced the forbidden "B" word, in order to avoid offending a couple of pgm fanboys here) should be the first priority for PG Music.


Edited by Cerio (06/07/16 02:23 PM)

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#356532 - 07/07/16 01:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (2600+ views) [Re: VideoTrack]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13440
Good points.
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#358057 - 07/21/16 09:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar [Re: VideoTrack]
Islansoul Offline
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Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 752
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
I do it the other way. If the song starts in 3/4, I use a 3/4 style, then I select the measure where 4/4 starts and highlight the range of bars and use the set time signature for a range of measures. Then, I chose 4/4 and I'm good to go. I did this with a song where it had one bar in 2/4 and it worked. It took a little effort to for BIAB to figure out to make that one measure 2/4 but it worked.
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#358129 - 07/21/16 05:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar [Re: Islansoul]
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Islansoul
I do it the other way. If the song starts in 3/4, I use a 3/4 style, then I select the measure where 4/4 starts and highlight the range of bars and use the set time signature for a range of measures. Then, I chose 4/4 and I'm good to go. I did this with a song where it had one bar in 2/4 and it worked. It took a little effort to for BIAB to figure out to make that one measure 2/4 but it worked.


Re:
Quote:
"then I select the measure where 4/4 starts and highlight the range of bars and use the set time signature for a range of measures. Then, I chose 4/4 and I'm good to go"


So I interpret that you are saying that by choosing 4/4 you make a 3/4 style play 4 beats to the bar?

How do you do that? What steps do you use? In my version of BiaB (2016), if you tell a 3/4 style to play 4 beats it plays 3 beats. You can only lose one, not add one.

OK, reading and analyzing further, I'm presuming that you use 2 bars of 2/4 to make something that 'sounds' like one bar of 4/4. If that's the case, then how does the score look? It won't read correctly like one bar of 4/4.

And in any case, I think you've respectfully missed the complete point of these posts. To recap, change your song that has the 3/4 style to start (the first bar) with 2 beats (or 4 beats), then listen to the count-in. I suspect that you'll get 3 beats.

BiaB always plays the count-in based on the selected style, not the number of beats in the first bar. It's a long-term major design issue. I'm really hopeful that it's being resolved. (3,100+ views to date...)

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#373333 - 11/06/16 11:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (2600+ views) [Re: PeterGannon]
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
Good points.

Bump for 2017...
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#373349 - 11/06/16 12:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (2600+ views) [Re: VideoTrack]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3722
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
+1 again.

Still on the "get around to it" and "to do" list for 2017.
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#373391 - 11/06/16 06:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar (2600+ views) [Re: Jim Fogle]
SFG Offline
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Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 57
+1

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#430569 - 09/21/17 12:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar [Re: VideoTrack]
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8054
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
This overdue request needs resurrecting, just in case the 2018 team aren't sure what needs to be included grin
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#431223 - 09/26/17 12:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Count-In based on actual time-signature of first bar [Re: VideoTrack]
Trygve Larsen Offline
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Registered: 10/08/15
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Loc: Philippines
+1
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