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I am wondering if anyone has any good rules of thumb, or tips, about how to set the levels when mixing two tracks - a backing track such as from a BIAB (bass and drum) file or Aebersold file, and a solo track, such as from a digital piano.
Obviously, the ear must be the final judge, and the goal must be to be able to hear all the parts. But beyond that, is there a good rule of thumb to get in the right ballpark, such as prenormalize both tracks and merge them? Or look at the vumeters while mixing and make sure the two tracks are roughly equal? Or set them equal and then knock the backing track down so many dB?
The reason I ask is that I have been setting the two tracks roughly equal, but I am getting some feedback to the effect that the backing track level may be too high. I'm not sure what to make of this. When I listen to excellent pianists on Youtube who record with backing tracks, it seems to me that the tracks are usually set about equal. Maybe it is a very subjective thing. I'm wondering if some people just expect to hear the bass as a thump down there someplace that just marks time, whereas I like to hear the root motion of the chords, so I set it higher.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ed
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There are no fixed rules. Just comes down to a decision on what the listener should be hearing.
Sounds like you are the arranger and producer as well as recording engineer. Therefore, you get to decide how the levels are set based on what you want the listener to hear.
Otherwise, I have always been told - the producer has the final word, but that's you!
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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I would not normalize either track before mixing. If you max out one track, then you have no headroom for further processing. Once you get a final mix, then you may adjust the final stereo track if it isn't hot enough (that's mastering).
One tip I use to mix is to listen at a very low volume. If I can hear all the instruments, it will be good when louder. I also listen from down the hall. I also test the mix on lots of players, from good stereo systems to boomboxes to headphones to earbuds to cars etc.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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For me, I often don't like the spread of a stereo piano track.
Most times a digital piano comes as a set panning of the L/R. So much low register on the left, and so much of the upper on the right.
One trick I learned long ago was to take those two channels (L/R) and split them to two separate mono tracks.
Then you can control not only how far 'left' the low register is and how far 'right' the upper is, but also the volume of each (and the timbre of each as well).
If you could get the desired 'thump' more centered in the mix, maybe the rest of the track wouldn't have to be so loud..
This trick can help to define a piano, especially when other tracks are involved.
Think about it from a listener standpoint; they are not sitting at the piano and hearing the L/R sound; they are in the audience and the piano may be off to the right and sound pretty much like one mono instrument..
IMHO most piano samples are done as if it was a Solo piano performance, which is often not the needed scenario.
Last edited by rharv; 08/11/13 11:31 AM.
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I'm with rharv on this one. I always prefer the piano as a mono instrument - it sounds more natural and gives it more definition.
Also, I think Dan is right when he says that there are no fixed rules. If it sounds right to you, have the confidence to go with it.
The only other thing is that some pianos sound good on their own, but are often too dark to cut through a mix. Brightening the piano track can improve it's clarity without increasing the volume.
ROG.
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I also agree with Rharv about the piano being a mono instrument and Dan about there are no fixed rules.
In your bass, drums and piano example I would think about how they would be on stage and arrange my pans as such. I would put the drums dead center, the piano on the left and the bass on the right. I would not hard pan either but more like a little left and a little right. This is just how I would do it and others may have other suggestions.
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Ed,
I'll add this to the most excellent advice you've already received...
For more control, try mixing the bass and drums as two separate tracks so you're mixing three instead of two (or four if you split the piano tracks).
In addition to mixing while listening at relatively low volume, listening in mono can be helpful in setting and checking levels. Also listen just outside your studio doorway. And be sure to listen on both speakers and headphones.
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I would not normalize either track before mixing. If you max out one track, then you have no headroom for further processing. Once you get a final mix, then you may adjust the final stereo track if it isn't hot enough.
One tip I use to mix is to listen at a very low volume. If I can hear all the instruments, it will be good when louder. I also test the mix on lots of players, from good stereo systems to boomboxes to headphones to earbuds to cars etc. IMO.... The above is what I would recommend. The only time I've actually need to use normalizing is when I went all digital back in 2000 or so. I had (24) R/R tapes full of finished originals spanning almost 20 years. I have found no need to normalize since then because of the ease of getting good signal on basic tracks in the digital domain. Regarding the BOLDED: when I listen at said very low volumes (my near fields being 27 year old Tascam S1010m) I focus on the bass line. If i can barely hear the bass line, even if it sounds a frog hair lower in gain of the other instruments, this would be my first reference mix which I would then listen to at normal volume on my KRK 8 G2's. If the bass is setting in the mix without being too loud then I would burn and test on all mediums noted above. Having relatively good quality monitors (subjectively speaking) is very favorable plus but it's also a matter of knowing one's monitors over time in the mixing environment and how they translate. Sorry for the novelette. That's my take on it.....carry on.
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Without hearing the track, any advice is just a guess.
the ear has to be the final judge..... but the ear of a piano player (especially the one who played the part) is going to have a different bias than the ear of a drummer or an engineer.
This is where you have to trust your own ears to be non-biased and wear the many hats required in mixing your own stuff......or post it where people whose ears and advice you trust can hear it to advise you on the mix.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Thanks, guys, I appreciate your thoughtful and insightful comments.
Ed
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