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Peter, I can recommend Onkyo from personal experience, both their semi-pro (Dokorder) and consumer line. You will find it versatile and reliable. I'm sure Mac will agree. Haven't had experience with Tannoy, but I know it's solid gear from a company that has been around for a long time.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Just wondering....
Is there a technical reason (other than "tradition") that they put RCA red/white plugs instead of the 1/8" ones on receivers? I used to have lots of devices that used RCA red/white plugs (cassette players, VHS, turntables). But now I don't, I have HDMI video and 1/8" audio devices as most common ( PCs, phones and tablets use 1/8").
Because this is what audio-specific-consumer components are still using. They are better connections, frankly, than 1/8" stereo jack/plug connections IMO, because there's much more contact area and less fragile. Many of the receivers DO have HDMI - the Yamaha I posted has several HDMI Ins and one HDMI out. I doubt you'll see 1/8" jacks on component audio anytime in the near future. More like the Yamaha that has a USB and can host iOS devices for digital audio transfer. Apple does have a lossless format for iOS devices (what several friends from work use) and you can buy very expensive amps just for them for headphones to have a mini hi-fi system in your pocket.
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Just wondering....
Is there a technical reason (other than "tradition") that they put RCA red/white plugs instead of the 1/8" ones on receivers? I used to have lots of devices that used RCA red/white plugs (cassette players, VHS, turntables). But now I don't, I have HDMI video and 1/8" audio devices as most common ( PCs, phones and tablets use 1/8").
My take on that is that the "technical reason" is more than likely due to manufacturing costs, the RCA jacks being less expensive than 1/8" jacks, and the fact that the RCA jacks have been available in long PCB-mountable strips in stereo pairs for so long. It is what it is, but use of the proper Y cable adaptors for you various items is a one-time acquisition and hookup that, once understood and done, isn't that bad. I actually PREFER the use of the Y adaptor cables, simply because they can be routed out towards the FRONT of the audio receiver or preamplifier and left laying in plain view on the shelf, and once labeled, it means that I don't have to constantly get to the rear panel of the thing when wanting to hook up my iPad, mp3 player, or other portable device that has the 1/8" outputs on them.
--Mac
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Peter, I Googled audio video Victoria BC and these came up: http://www.shopinvictoria.com/Atlas-Audio-And-Video-Unlimited-Victoria/334091.htmhttp://soundsolutionsvictoria.com/products.php?pcid=3Then there's this one: http://www.soundhounds.com/This one looks expensive but it might be worth a visit anyway just to see what the other half likes. I'm sure there's others and I know there's a ton of them in Vancouver if you want to take a ferry ride. Those receivers talked about in that review article I posted above all have multiple HDMI ports and Airplay built in. And yes, Onkyo is good quality stuff too, that's what I use. As to the question about 1/8" jacks vs RCA. This same question comes up on the forums all the time. 1/8" is simply not pro level, not only is the plug itself fragile the little wires are pretty much useless too. Too easy to step on, tangle, roll over, they're subject to interference, etc. If you want good, consistent connections in a home studio, few use those crap 1/8" connectors we all use external interfaces with 1/4" plugs. It's the same question you could ask yourself with your bass, why not 1/8" plugs for that? You want solid connectors and wiring for your multi-thousand dollar system. Most of the big name companies I've mentioned usually have two lines, consumer grade and audiophile grade. Consumer grade uses 1/8" plugs, uses less expensive designs and components including overall build quality and things like textured plastic for the speakers. Audiophile grade doesn't it's that simple. If you're leaning towards simpler consumer level stuff, that's fine. You don't need to spend $2,500, look at the systems in a box at a Radio Shack or the Costco in Langford. As I said earlier those don't sound bad at all and could be all you need. The problem I used to run into when I was selling this stuff is there's a big gap from consumer level to audiophile level. Somebody decides they really do want to step up from the cheap basic stuff but then get confused by all the terminology and huge number of choices when they step into a shop like Soundhounds. It's a big time culture shock I used to run into all the time. If that's what you're feeling right now but you still want to step up a little then to keep it simple go with the visuals because everything is good at that level. You don't have to worry too much about sound quality in a shops like those just go with your budget and what looks good in your living room. The other thing is the people who work in the higher end stores really are geeks and usually know their stuff unlike the brain dead clerks at a Costco. It's ok to go with their recommendations. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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rockstar_not makes a good point about the fragility of the 1/8" jacks.
Working part-time at the various audio repair ceneters, borken input jacks are a constant, but I must say that it is not the type of jack that is the problem.
The problem lies in people using adaptors or cables that have so much mass at the plug that it eventually damages the jack. This is why I recommend the Y type cables over those little barrel adaptors.
The moment angle those larger barrel adaptors and plugs can place upon the little input jacks can be quite much more than they are able to handle, couple that with the weight of cables that are not dressed or tied such that the weight of all that cable is not hanging on the jack, can crack the plastic insulators that either style of plug is made of - and jack replacement is the only cure, which for most means a trip to the repair center and the outlay of $$$ needlessly if warranty has expired, and even considering warranty, there is still the downtime of the situation to consider. All of which can be avoided by the educated user.
Another failure we see quite often happens with the RCA jacks on the receivers and preamps, etc. This one is due to the ubiquitous use of those "audiophile" grade overpriced "Monster" type audio cables. Often is the case that they design the center pin of the RCA jack to be a little bit larger in diameter in spec, and that will eventually stretch the female side of the connector to the point that a standard sized RCA plug, or even the oversized ones, will make no contact or intermittant contact. The real truth is that these oversized plugs and cables are nothing more than advertising hype to get your money. "Oxygen Free" copper - that's BS at its most offensive height.
Avoid them and go with a good quality "standard" grade audio cable set.
--Mac
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Avoid them and go with a good quality "standard" grade audio cable set.
--Mac
I've been using heavy gauge bulk-available lamp cord from home improvement stores for speaker cable for as long as I've owned home audio equipment. It's what we used in our touring 60 and 120 voice choirs back in the 80's, and I never forgot that it was useful that way. Never and not once has someone come into my house while I've been listening to music over the hi-fi and stated "Augghh! You must be using lamp cord for speaker wire - turn that crap off!" Just because it will eventually become pertinent in this discussion, it's well worth posting the Audio Myths Busted talk given by Ethan Winer at AES a few years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQThe contents of this video should become reference material IMO. Also, full quality audio files are available from this talk on Ethan Winer's website.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 08/16/13 09:35 AM.
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Bob,
Many thanks for the links to stores in Victoria. I will check them all out!
One point on the 1/8" jacks. Yes, I can get the cables that go 1/8" and end up as RCA. Just strange when some other brand new equipment that I have uses 1/8" audio inputs (Zeppelin Airplay receiver, Bowers and Wilkins). And other iPhone type players also use 1/8" audio inputs. So I guess I need both types of cables.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Bob,
Many thanks for the links to stores in Victoria. I will check them all out!
One point on the 1/8" jacks. Yes, I can get the cables that go 1/8" and end up as RCA. Just strange when some other brand new equipment that I have uses 1/8" audio inputs (Zeppelin Airplay receiver, Bowers and Wilkins). And other iPhone type players also use 1/8" audio inputs. So I guess I need both types of cables. Peter, these aren't considered component items. They are self contained systems, desktop or bookshelf, in and of themselves. These aren't considered that serious of devices, honestly, because they have to rely on a bit of phantom pitch/low end fake ala the Bose desktop units to convince one that they are actually delivering low frequency content that is undistorted. There's also a bit of cork-sniffery still in the component audio world - whether intended or not. Watch that video from the Audio Engineering Society - particularly Mr. Johnson's stories about faking out the audiophiles with a switch hooked to nothing and a MacIntosh receiver that was dead but he lit the tubes to fake out the sniffers. It's right near the front of the video. Just don't go buying expensive cables - biggest snake-oil sales happening in the audio world for as long as I can remember. Monster started it. And they are the ones who brought us 'Beats by Dre'. I can attest that the headphone output amplifier in the iPhone 4s is outstanding, with very low output impedance and serves up a rather tasty analog signal for connecting to whatever else you like. One downside of the music player in the iPhone is no real EQ to speak of, which you are going to want with a home system. So look for a receiver/amp that has at least a 5 band EQ or better included. My JVC A/V has been running 20+ years now with no issues.
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When I was selling this stuff I NEVER pushed the Monster type cables, I knew it was total BS and I told people so. Like Scott said I also use 14 gauge (I think) standard lamp wire for all my speakers. My Altec Model 14's use banana plugs and you can buy a little box of those for like $1.99 or something and it was nothing to put them on the wires.
I also agree that there is a bit of the wine sniffing elitist thing going on in some of these high end audio shops. The sales game is similar to millionaires buying a new Steinway when nobody in the house plays. Their decorator simply said a piano needs to go "over there".
You mentioned Tannoy. Tannoy is an old very well regarded English company. The "real" high end Tannoys are very expensive like $5-7,000 for a pair. The classic Tannoy Red studio monitors from the 70's still sell for like $3,500 each. I just did a quick search and I see they now sell complete home theater systems in a box for under a grand. Those are the consumer grade things I talked about earlier. You probably don't need those. If you go into one of those shops and they have some nice looking floor standing Tannoys with real wood veneers for say $800-1,200 each, those are probably pretty decent.
A comment about subs and this is just my humble opinion because I know there's lots of other opinions about them.
For music only, you don't need a sub. To me it's way too easy to set up a sub wrong to where music sounds boomy and it's crap. A $2,000 floor standing two speaker stereo system has plenty of bass and is already optimized for music. You're a musician, I'm assuming that's where your primary interest lies. It's the home theater application watching action syfi movies where a sub "may" be needed. I say may. I still don't want or need one. I get plenty of bass for car crashes, starship explosions and the like out of my Altecs.
So much to talk about here, I'm trying to keep it simple but another important point. The money is in the speakers and the audio source. Electronics have been good enough for years now that any one of the $500 big name receivers like Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha etc, are perfectly capable of driving $10,000 worth of stereo speakers. It's the big subs that take serious power and if you're driving an Infinity dual 12" sub box so you can really hear that space monster rattling your windows then you could need a separate amp for that.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 08/17/13 10:24 AM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Something else Peter. Don't overlook used equipment. These high end shops are like high end car dealers. People with money trade in stuff all the time for whatever reason. Scott, Mac and myself are notorious scroungers on the forum. We don't pay retail for anything. Just for laughs I pulled up Ebay and found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOWERS-WILKINS-B...=item3cd4b7554fAre you kidding me?? B & W Nautilus 805's were right up there as some of the very best speakers anywhere 10 years ago. These things retailed for over $2,500 each. If this ad was in Vancouver I would tell you right now to hop in your SUV and go for a ferry ride. $1,800 CIF (Cash In Fist) would probably buy these. It appears this ad is from a shop and is just an example of what could be out there if you have a little patience. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Something else Peter. Don't overlook used equipment. These high end shops are like high end car dealers. People with money trade in stuff all the time for whatever reason.
Scott, Mac and myself are notorious scroungers on the forum. We don't pay retail for anything.
You can get a good amp to power monitor speakers nearly always at one of the local thrift shops here in Colorado Springs for under $75. I bought a 75W/channel stereo amp (Sony I believe) from the local ARC store here for $35 back a few months ago. Paired it will some JBL bookshelf speakers with I believe it was 6" woofers that looked nearly new, no punched in dust cones and flexible speaker surrounds that I offered $10 for the pair to the yard sale folks. They happily took my money, and my son now has the best audio system in his house of 5 buddies at Colorado State for under $50. You will be spending more than that - but if you want to do some experimentation, you can probably find a decent home theatre amp/receiver to power speakers for your room in a Vancouver thrift shop for under $100. It will be a consumer level item, but again, that's not bad these days. Probably a Sony sitting there waiting for you right now. Sony is the Honda automobile brand of audio. It's going to do you just fine and nobody will laugh at you for having it except the cork sniffers.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
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