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#215357 - 09/18/13 06:18 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone?
George Nelson Offline
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Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
I have the latest version of Band In a Box.
I can use it as a backing for my guitar.

I have just acquired an Alto Saxophone and had it checked out by a repairer and it is good to go.

Where do I start with baby steps in Band in a Box?

I have a little (and I mean a little) idea of reading music.
I used to play the piano when I was a kid but that was a long time ago.
I could WILL pick up the notation again.

All help gratefully welcome.

George
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Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215366 - 09/18/13 08:17 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
First, you will need a sax method book with fingering chart and setup tips.

To play along with BIAB, you will need to transpose everything down a minor third because a sax is a transposing instrument (alto sax is pitched in Eb). BIAB has a setting to do this easily. I'm not at a BIAB computer now, but it's something like Opt., Preferences, Notation and then select Alto Sax in the pull-down menu. Don't forget to set it back to Concert pitch to play along with your guitar.
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#215368 - 09/18/13 08:55 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11066
Loc: Hamlin NY
I have been doing exactly what you want to do with my EWI-USB wind controller. Although I can read music and did play trumpet the wind controller trumpet fingerings and playing techniques are quite different than a real trumpet.

What I did was to purchase a couple of Norton’s fake book disks to the fake books I had. That way I just brought up a song from the disk and played along with the book. This saves a lot of time, as you do not have to put the chords in yourself. Plus you can start with slow songs and work you way up to faster one. I am not at the faster ones yet! If you go this route be sure to buy a fake book in Eb.

Good luck and have fun.

(edit) An after thought: The absolute best way to get started on the alto sax is to find a good instructor. That way you will learn the correct playing techniques from the git-go. It is much harder to correct bad techniques than it is to learn them correctly right from the start.






Edited by MarioD (09/18/13 09:00 AM)
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The only exercise I did this month was run out of money!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#215372 - 09/18/13 10:00 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
George, if you are at all serious about the endeavor, I heartily recommend that you also find a good teacher and invest the time and small amount of money required in order to get the basics of fingering, breath control, embouchure etc. correct the first time, which will eliminate the kind of bad habits that can happen when we don't know that which we don't know.

It is usually far more difficult to break a bad habit than it is to get started off on the riht foot in the first place.

Along with those lessons, of course Band in a Box represents a great addition to any practice regimen and it too, can be used to get there much faster, provided that you get those all-important basic things from that teacher as you work with the sax.

Because one of the biggest keys to success is efficiency when the subject is musical instrument practice.


--Mac
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PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

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#215390 - 09/18/13 03:39 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: Matt Finley]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi Matt,
Quote:
First, you will need a sax method book with fingering chart and setup tips.


Can you give me any idea about which book?

As to BIAB I use the Bb>C Icon to transpose.

George
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215391 - 09/18/13 03:45 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: MarioD]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi MarioD,

Which songs or tunes did you start with?

I will use the many many song and tunes I already have for BIAB.

As to finding a good instructor - I am drawing a blank so far.
As I live in a rural area they are as hard to find as hen's teeth.

I have contacted the music schools in my area but they don't do private tuition.

George
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215392 - 09/18/13 03:51 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: Mac]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi Mac,

I am deadly serious about learning the Alto Saxophone.
I understand that to practice and practice - if you have not been taught the rudiments - only reinforces the bad habits.

I am having a hard time sourcing a teacher, but will not give up.

Quote:
Because one of the biggest keys to success is efficiency when the subject is musical instrument practice.


I wholeheartedly agree.

George
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215394 - 09/18/13 04:14 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Try contacting the local school systems and ask for Band Director. If they can't do the lessons themselves, likely one or more of them can give you a lead on who can.


There also may be online or computer-based courses available as well, a quick Bing search brought this site up, rudimentary, but there are likely good sites and such online for just about every level these days.

http://www.saxophone-players.com/learn-to-play-saxophone.html


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
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#215407 - 09/18/13 07:08 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11066
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: George Nelson
Hi MarioD,

Which songs or tunes did you start with?

I will use the many many song and tunes I already have for BIAB.

As to finding a good instructor - I am drawing a blank so far.
As I live in a rural area they are as hard to find as hen's teeth.

I have contacted the music schools in my area but they don't do private tuition.

George


Hi George,

I don’t remember the names of the songs but start with something simple like the Beatles "Nowhere Man". In other words start with songs that use mostly all quarter, half and whole notes or in your talk crotchet, minim and semibreve notes. Thank God for the Internet wink

You might also google/bing major scales for the alto sax or as Mac has indicated search for instructional material for the alto sax.

As Mac said check with local high schools and see if the music teacher teaches privately, here in upper western New York state that is quite common. If he doesn’t tutor then maybe one of his high school alto players may be able to teach you the basics.

Good luck.
_________________________
The only exercise I did this month was run out of money!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#215422 - 09/18/13 10:19 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
There are plenty of fingering charts on the Internet, but here is one: http://www.lightandmatter.com/music/saxfingeringsbasic.pdf

You will want to find a teacher and a method book to help make sense of this. Good luck!
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#215430 - 09/19/13 04:28 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: Mac]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi Mac,

Thank you for your help.
The link you supplied was very helpful.

No joy with finding a local tutor at present.

I will try the internet.

I have had some success at making a toot wink on my sax.

Bought some Vandoren reeds and purchased a Yamaha Mouthpiece.

I was surprised at how easy it was to use the Yamaha mouthpiece as opposed to the student mouthpiece ( no name ).


George
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215431 - 09/19/13 04:35 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: MarioD]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi MarioD,

Quote:
I don’t remember the names of the songs but start with something simple like the Beatles "Nowhere Man". In other words start with songs that use mostly all quarter, half and whole notes or in your talk crotchet, minim and semibreve notes. Thank God for the Internet wink

Thanks for the info you provided. I will start with baby steps and then try to increase my knowledge by practicing hard.

Quote:
You might also google/bing major scales for the alto sax or as Mac has indicated search for instructional material for the alto sax.

I have done that and there are oodles and oodles of Sax sites smile

George
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215432 - 09/19/13 04:42 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: Matt Finley]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi Matt,

Thank you for finding that finger chart.
I have also downloaded many others and feel that they will help.

As I have said there are no local teachers available.

I have heard there is a jazz group (with Sax players) that play in a social club relatively close to me (around 30 miles) so I will visit and ask them if they know anyone who might help.

George


Edited by George Nelson (09/19/13 04:43 AM)
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215436 - 09/19/13 07:48 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
That is sounding more promising.

Which Yamaha mouthpiece? 4?
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#215448 - 09/19/13 10:23 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Originally Posted By: George Nelson


Bought some Vandoren reeds and purchased a Yamaha Mouthpiece.

I was surprised at how easy it was to use the Yamaha mouthpiece as opposed to the student mouthpiece ( no name ).



Don't be hasty to judge the original mothpiece as being inferior, it was likely designed to fit the embouchure of a preteen through teen mouth. And for them, it may be an easier blow than your new Yammny mouthpiece, which may be easier for you to obtain sound with simply because the Yammy better suits the size and shape of your embouchure. We ain't no spring chickens anymore, George me laddy...


so don't throw the old mouthpiece out.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#215464 - 09/19/13 12:14 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
The Yamaha 4C is their student mouthpiece. It's an excellent place to start.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#215466 - 09/19/13 12:45 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: Matt Finley]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi Matt,

Yamaha 4C

George

Whoops Matt beat me to it.


Edited by George Nelson (09/19/13 12:48 PM)
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215468 - 09/19/13 12:47 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: Mac]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi Mac,

Don't you know I'm Scottish.... throw away just doesn't compute wink

George
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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#215574 - 09/20/13 12:35 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: George Nelson]
eddie1261 - gone Online   content
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4372
To answer your original question, no. Nothing can teach you how to play. It can give you music to play along with, but only you and practice will teach you how to play.

No shortcuts available to learn a skill. You can't learn to weld by watching welders do their craft. You can't learn to cook by watching cooking shows. You can't learn to use a router from watching woodworkers. You need to burn a lot of metal, ruin a lot of wood, and make some really bad food on your way to learning. In this case, you will make a lot of squeaks.

A good teacher will show you basic fingering and give you some scales to play that will build your speed and muscle memory. I did a lot of Hanon scales on my sax, just like I did on piano and guitar. Mainly it's about investing time and repetition.
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#215635 - 09/21/13 06:01 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: Can BIAB Teach Me Alto Saxophone? [Re: eddie1261 - gone]
George Nelson Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Scotland
Hi Eddie1261,

Quote:
To answer your original question, no. Nothing can teach you how to play. It can give you music to play along with, but only you and practice will teach you how to play.


Yes I hear what you are saying. Perhaps the original question should have read " Can BIAB help when I am learning the Saxophone".

Quote:
No shortcuts available to learn a skill. You can't learn to weld by watching welders do their craft. You can't learn to cook by watching cooking shows. You can't learn to use a router from watching woodworkers. You need to burn a lot of metal, ruin a lot of wood, and make some really bad food on your way to learning. In this case, you will make a lot of squeaks.


How right you are. At the moment all I am trying to do is use the mouthpiece and the neck to make a consistent tone ( I believe it should be a G# ) but as you say I am making lots of squeaks cry

Quote:
A good teacher will show you basic fingering and give you some scales to play that will build your speed and muscle memory. I did a lot of Hanon scales on my sax, just like I did on piano and guitar. Mainly it's about investing time and repetition.


Wow! I remember now that that was how I was taught when I was a kid. Never knew how useful they would be.

Thanks

George
_________________________
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, Biab 2018 513, Realband 2018 5
i7 Desktop Computer.


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