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I want to change the key to a lower key, but it seems to only give higher versions. If I created the song in the key of C and want to drop to the key of G, it seems to only go up to the higher G - but I want the lower G. Can this be done?
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G is G, no higher or lower. What do you want to transpose, a melody? In notation mode you can transpose a melody where-ever you want. Later, Ray
It may be that BIAB won't play lower chords because it's too low and would sound muddy.
Last edited by raymb1; 10/08/13 05:45 PM.
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Yes, as Ray mentioned, BIAB has intelligence to play in a reasonable register. The exception would be a fixed MIDI melody and/or soloist part. If that plays in the wrong register, then there are at least two ways to change which octave it sounds in. I'm guessing this is the case for your song, because RealTrack soloists also have the same intelligence to stay in a usable register.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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If it is only the MELODY track that is too high, do this:
Go to the MELODY menu, very near the absolute top of the screen - on the same row as the FILE - EDIT - STYLES menus. Go to EDIT MELODY TRACK, then TRANSPOSE MELODY ONLY. Enter "-12" to bring the melody down an octave.
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From C to G... that's almost the same distance up or down....
C to B is down....
That is the thing about BB.... when it changes keys, it adjusts everything else accordingly to play it in the most efficient way.... and I have noticed this as well on larger modulations such as you are doing.
I choose keys based on my vocal range as well as how it sounds on a guitar. While B might be a good key vocally, it's not a "fun" key on the guitar so I opt to choose either C or A which is still in the vocal range and provides nice open chords for strumming.
mi dos centavos
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I choose keys based on my vocal range as well as how it sounds on a guitar. While B might be a good key vocally, it's not a "fun" key on the guitar so I opt to choose either C or A which is still in the vocal range and provides nice open chords for strumming.
Hi Herb, If B is the key you sing in and you want the first position open chord sound put a capo on the second fret and play the guitar in the key of A. With the capo on the second fret an A becomes a B, a D becomes an E, and so on and so forth. I hope this helps!
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
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Yo Mario. Know where I can find a capo for my trumpet?  Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Yo Mario. Know where I can find a capo for my trumpet? Stan Funny. I have instruments in C, Bb, Eb, F, A, and G. As you know, the Bb trumpet can almost get to B with a harmon mute stuffed tightly, and the flugel and some piccolo trumpets play well in A when needed. Bb trumpets can also play in A with the main tuning slide all out. It's enough to wrap your head around, even without a capo...
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Yo Mario. Know where I can find a capo for my trumpet? Stan HA! And the sax too. But I get where the OP is coming from. It seems that in BIAB all key choices go UP from C. And I see all kinds of reasons why a composer might want to use a lower register because no..."C" isn't "C". It's just a key in a given register...all of which sound quite different musically even though the same NOTES are being played. So, I get the question about going DOWN REGISTER to get to G from C. Best, Jim
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@Matt..."Funny.
I have instruments in C, Bb, Eb, F, A, and G."
And us diatonic Harp players need 1 for each key plus both high and low G harps....unless you're one of the overblow gurus like Howard Levy who can play a song in all keys on a single diatonic harp.
But I understand Matt that you can't carry all your horns on a "bandelero belt" like Sugar Blue!!!
(-:
Jim
Last edited by av84fun; 10/09/13 01:33 PM.
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Funny thing is, I can create a new song in G, the acoustic real track plays the standard G chord with the bass note on the E string, third fret. If I start a song in the key of C and then transpose to G, the Acoustic real track then plays a much higher G chord - maybe capo 5, playing a D chord. In this case, the acoustic is the only instrument which plays to the higher G. The bass and normally electric guitar drops from C to the lower G. Only the acoustic goes to the higher, and undisireable G. No complaints since I can start over in G, but maybe there is something else I can do to avoid/correct this?
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All wind instrument players should practice each song they already know in all 12 keys.
If more were to do that, transposition would not be the perceived problem that it is today.
And, I might add that their improvisational abilities would soar.
--Mac
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Yo Mario. Know where I can find a capo for my trumpet? Stan Funny. I have instruments in C, Bb, Eb, F, A, and G. As you know, the Bb trumpet can almost get to B with a harmon mute stuffed tightly, and the flugel and some piccolo trumpets play well in A when needed. Bb trumpets can also play in A with the main tuning slide all out. It's enough to wrap your head around, even without a capo... Gee Matt. You don't even have a cornet in D? . No, I have not tried to change keys using mutes or slides. When I was a kid, I don't even think we knew about the 3rd valve slide. When I came back to playing after 50 years off, I fell in love with triggers, but I don't have any on my current trumpet. Maybe that's why I like my Getzen 3850 cornet so much. 
Last edited by Shastastan; 10/09/13 04:42 PM.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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All wind instrument players should practice each song they already know in all 12 keys.
If more were to do that, transposition would not be the perceived problem that it is today.
And, I might add that their improvisational abilities would soar.
--Mac No one can argue with that, Mac. Of course I wish I had done what Dizzy Gillespie required all of his students to do----learn the piano first. I'm just now learning chord structures and that's on a uke. Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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I choose keys based on my vocal range as well as how it sounds on a guitar. While B might be a good key vocally, it's not a "fun" key on the guitar so I opt to choose either C or A which is still in the vocal range and provides nice open chords for strumming.
Hi Herb, If B is the key you sing in and you want the first position open chord sound put a capo on the second fret and play the guitar in the key of A. With the capo on the second fret an A becomes a B, a D becomes an E, and so on and so forth. I hope this helps! I used B solely as an example. Because, I can write a song for my vocal range in any given key.... the important factor is not the key, but the melody and it's range in the song. Mario, well.... I appreciate that advice. However, I've been playing guitar for 45 years and can actually play in any key on the guitar w/o issues. Playing in the church orchestra for a few years where nothing is ever in D or G or A.... mostly Eb, Bb, and Ab....will teach or force you to learn to play, and I did not use a capo, which blew the minds of the other guys who played the guitar in the church music program. We could have anywhere from one to three pickers... mostly only one or two. I have a number of different capo's.... and on occasion I will use them but not to make a key easier to play. Oh yeah I did use them for that in the beginning.... everyone does.... but I now use them for tonal reasons. The proper use of a capo for me is to change the sound of the guitar. There is a difference between the sound of an open chord and a totally fretted chord and a chord played in either of those positions with a capo on the neck. It is to get that unique coloration that I use a capo. It tends to raise the timbre of the instrument which is desirable under certain circumstances.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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All wind instrument players should practice each song they already know in all 12 keys.
If more were to do that, transposition would not be the perceived problem that it is today.
And, I might add that their improvisational abilities would soar.
--Mac the ability to play any instrument in any key is extremely desirable. Back when I took piano lessons, that was a requirement. The teacher was always introducing music in different keys. and practicing scales...... oh my... what a pain at the time but now I realize how important that was to make the different keys second nature and not having to spend time thinking about it because it was ingrained in your subconscious and it became effortless.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I choose keys based on my vocal range as well as how it sounds on a guitar. While B might be a good key vocally, it's not a "fun" key on the guitar so I opt to choose either C or A which is still in the vocal range and provides nice open chords for strumming.
Hi Herb, If B is the key you sing in and you want the first position open chord sound put a capo on the second fret and play the guitar in the key of A. With the capo on the second fret an A becomes a B, a D becomes an E, and so on and so forth. I hope this helps! I used B solely as an example. Because, I can write a song for my vocal range in any given key.... the important factor is not the key, but the melody and it's range in the song. Mario, well.... I appreciate that advice. However, I've been playing guitar for 45 years and can actually play in any key on the guitar w/o issues. Playing in the church orchestra for a few years where nothing is ever in D or G or A.... mostly Eb, Bb, and Ab....will teach or force you to learn to play, and I did not use a capo, which blew the minds of the other guys who played the guitar in the church music program. We could have anywhere from one to three pickers... mostly only one or two. I have a number of different capo's.... and on occasion I will use them but not to make a key easier to play. Oh yeah I did use them for that in the beginning.... everyone does.... but I now use them for tonal reasons. The proper use of a capo for me is to change the sound of the guitar. There is a difference between the sound of an open chord and a totally fretted chord and a chord played in either of those positions with a capo on the neck. It is to get that unique coloration that I use a capo. It tends to raise the timbre of the instrument which is desirable under certain circumstances. What he said. (-: Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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<...>
The proper use of a capo for me is to change the sound of the guitar. There is a difference between the sound of an open chord and a totally fretted chord and a chord played in either of those positions with a capo on the neck. It is to get that unique coloration that I use a capo. It tends to raise the timbre of the instrument which is desirable under certain circumstances. I agree with that 200% and add for me it is the only use of the capo. (I don't mean to imply that my way is the only correct way to do anything - YMMV). One nice thing about the guitar is that if you are not playing open string chords (cowboy chords as my guitar teacher friend calls them) it's really easy to play in any key. Much easier than it is on the saxophone or piano where the fingering in each key is entirely different. When I picked up guitar and first learned barre chords transposing was so ridiculously easy that I couldn't help giggling every time a song changed key. Wow! The fingering is the same, only on a different fret. On the sax and piano, to play all the major scales require 12 completely different fingerings. Same for natural minor, harmonic minor, melodic minor, major pentatonic, minor pentatonic, and all the modes. On the guitar, learn 5 different fingerings for each position on the neck and you have them all. A major fingers just like Bb major, B major, C major and so on. I learned to play the sax (my primary instrument) in all keys, however it is still easier for me to play in some keys than others. Probably because I play them more often. Unlike "big band" saxophonists from the swing era, I prefer the sharp keys. Probably because I grew up in guitar-based rock bands and in my youth the guitarists tended to like E and A (F# and B on the tenor sax). So for me the fingers just flow easier in the sharp keys. Many of the swing standards are written in Ab, Eb and Bb which are comfortable keys on the piano and also allow the brass and woodwinds to play with fewer flats or sharps on the key signature. When I was in school band, the dreaded key for the winds was F#. For the tenor sax that's E on the guitar and piano. I happen to really like F# a lot (E concert), and also find that it fits the range of the sax quite well. Not that I can't play in the flat keys. It's just my fingers are more comfortable with the sharp keys. But I'm weird
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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One more thing to add about keys. Sometimes moving a song a half step changes its mood, making it sound darker or brighter.
To my ears and others I've had conversations with, depending on the song some keys just sound right and others wrong for that reason.
Others cannot hear the difference. I guess it's the way we are built. I don't have absolute pitch, but the people that I know that do have it almost unanimously agree.
So when learning a song, first we fit the vocal range and then tweak the key a bit so it sounds right to us (and hopefully the audience).
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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