|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18 |
Greetings,
Does anyone know why BIAB does not make WASAPI drivers available? My understanding is minimal, but I've read that this has lower latency than MME. I know ASIO is best with respect to latency, but I've got other technical issues with that.
Thanks!
Lew
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867 |
Well, what BIAB calls MME is really WDM. They just didn't update that screen.
WASAPI is the newest standard, so that would be my guess why many software programs, not just BIAB, have not yet adopted it. I don't think any of my audio devices have WASAPI drivers yet.
Would you like to tell us more about your ASIO issue? I do understand it's not always best to use ASIO; my Tascam recommends the WDM driver. It's very much dependent on the quality of the driver, and you have to try both.
Theoretically the WASAPI standard should outperform ASIO if supported. We'll see.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18 |
Thanks for the response!
My issue is this: My setup is that I use HDMI to connect my sound system and display (it's a home theater system with TV) to my PC. For some reason, when I use the ASIO driver, the input is great, but I can only get the output to go through my Audio interface (it's an M-Audio M-Track); any attempt to use ASIO to go through my normal sound system produces nothing. And connecting my sound system to the interface would mean that I couldn't see the display since HDMI combines audio and video. I know there are other ways to do it, but using the WASAPI driver in other applications like Sonar X3 works just fine, which is why I asked this question. (Well, there is a bit more latency than I get with ASIO, but I haven't worked very hard to tweak it.)
But you've given me hope: Perhaps there's a way to make the ASIO driver to output sound through my sound system with no compromises. I've fiddled a bit with it and haven't had success yet.
Regards,
Lew
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867 |
Interesting. This may be the first time anyone here has mentioned using a TV entertainment center with BIAB.
I kind of lost you when you mentioned the devices and drivers. Which device uses ASIO and which WASAPI and what is connected to what?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18 |
Ha! I kind of lost myself!  I hope this expansion is clearer. A. For almost everything, I have my PC going to my receiver via HDMI, which then goes to my speakers for sound and to my TV for video. B. My MIDI controller is a basic (but very functional) M-Audio Keystation 49es which goes directly into the PC through a USB port. C. My audio interface (M-Audio M-Track) is connected to my PC via USB cable. Into that, I run a mic and occasionally a guitar. My interface also has output through headphones or through standard audio output which I could run into my receiver. For this latter option, I can only hear anything if I switch my receiver to the "auxiliary" input of my audio interface, at which point the video signal coming from my PC gets cut off. So, when making music, situation A. almost always works when using my WASAPI driver (or, in the case of BIAB, the WDM driver); the problem is that latency is not acceptable. So, using the ASIO driver option with any of my applications, including BIAB, allows me to CHOOSE my main PC's sound output (which should run the sound through the HDMI cable, into my receiver, and out my speakers), but somewhere along the line, sound does not get produced. As I look at it, this may not clarify anything much. I apologize. But I'm now too tired to know how to fix it. Thanks, Lew
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867 |
Your description is perfectly clear. I have no experience with an HDMI connection for audio purposes. May I suggest you contact PG Music Support and describe your problem, concentrating on choice A? Reference this thread.
Good luck!
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18 |
Sure will. Thank you, Matt.
Lew
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
If you can hear sound via the HDMI when using Windows Sound drivers, but cannot hear it when using ASIO sound drivers, you might try using one of the ASIO "wrappers" such as ASIO4ALL, which makes ASIO happen, but actually does so through the WDM sound drivers.
Then invoke the ASIO4ALL drivers rather than the native M-Audio ASIO drivers.
Might be a good workaround there.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 18 |
Hey Mac,
My fault for not being more specific: My interface does not come with its own ASIO driver, but recommends using the ASIO4ALL, which is what I use. I was not aware it was a wrapper for the WDM driver. Interesting.
I'll do a little research on the problem and report back what I learn.
Thank you!
Lew
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Might also be a bitrate problem, HDMI may want 48KHz.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687 |
Well, what BIAB calls MME is really WDM. They just didn't update that screen. This is incorrect Matt. During testing I posted a list of old, antique references that should be removed from the docs and help files and MME was one of them. Peter came back with a detailed explanation that MME is current code and is in fact different from WDM. Lew, I do the same thing as you. Last year I dumped DirecTV and went with FIOS using a cable card tuner that connects to my PC via USB and I'm writing this from my couch in the living room on my big screen TV. I also ran a 25' HDMI cable from the bedroom to the living room. I have my PC and music studio set up in the bedroom with a 32' TV as the monitor there. There's a whole very nerdy inconsistent problem with the HDMI sound going off every time the TV gets turned off and sometimes when it just hibernates from non use. I spent many hours trying to track that down, it's all over the internet in dozens of audio/video forums. Luckily the work around is easy I just go into the Sound Devices window and just hovering the mouse in that window, not clicking anything the HDMI red X goes back to the green checkmark by itself. Don't ask me boss, that's how it works. That's one thing. The other thing is I use a Roland Sonic Cell as my interface and it has it's own ASIO driver. Both the Sonic Cell and my AMD HDMI audio show up in my Windows 7 Sound Devices window. At first I could have both active then suddenly before Xmas, I was getting no sound and I figured out I can now only use one at a time but not both. I used to be able to leave the sound and TV on in the living room, go into the bedroom and still have sound from my monitoring system there but not any more. What happened? No clue, it just happened. Another mystery of the universe. Not a big deal but it caused more consternation on my part until I figured it out. No help anywhere on the internet either. When I use the Sonic Cell ASIO the sound only comes out from the bedroom system because I have to disable the HDMI sound and enable the Sonic Cell ASIO driver in the Sound Devices window. This isn't a problem for me because I'm only concerned with latency when I'm doing live recording off my keyboards and they're set up in the bedroom anyway, I only use the living room for after the fact mixing and other tweaking. But when I want to do that I have to disable the SC ASIO and re-enable the HDMI so I get sound in the living room. This setup is of course different from yours but maybe my experience will help you a little. This stuff is very, very tricky and not for the average computer user that's for sure. Still, overall I really love it, I watch all the FIOS shows as usual off the Cable Card HD Prime device, record all the shows I want right onto my PC's hard drive and it's saving me almost $100 a month over my old DirecTV with separate internet set up. You can see in my sig what PC components I'm using and I'm sure part of it is the CPU/Mobo/TV configuration so as always YMMV. All I can say is whenever you step out of "normal" use of a PC you're stepping into hackerville and it's an "interesting" experience to say the least. Digital audio work with Biab, DAW's, third party software, different interfaces and all that certainly qualifies too. Doing all that along with running my entire internet and FIOS home media stuff from the same PC it's like WHATINHELL WAS I THINKING? It's all good now until something else happens. Oh yeah almost forgot to mention running two monitors is an issue itself. I ran the bedroom from a VGA cable and the living room from HDMI and discovered that was spotty too because of broadcast TV encryption issues. The whole system has to be digital and VGA is analog. I had to get an HDMI splitter so now it's HDMI in the bedroom as well. I could go on and on and on and on about getting this all set up and running smoothly. Smoothly? Hmmmmm... Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
ASIO4ALL has a full name; ASIO4ALL - Universal ASIO Driver For WDM Audio Source: http://asio4all.com/ ASIO4ALL supposedly cannot work with the old, original MME Windows Sound drivers. Therefore, since ASIO4ALL works in Band in a Box with the "MME" choice selection, it must be calling the WDM driver. I do know from firsthand experience back with Win98 that I had to install the Upgrade to the WDM Kernal before I could get ASIO4ALL to work on that machine. But then there is also more than one HDMI out there as well. Some HDMI connects will not pass audio at all. There may be internal settings hidden in the menus of the video receiver that can allow changes to the audio source. --Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687 |
ASIO4ALL supposedly cannot work with the old, original MME Windows Sound drivers The MME in Biab right now is not old, it's new current code that is still correctly called MME. This is from the man himself and he specifically said it's not WDM. His answer to me is buried somewhere in the other forum but it's there. What you had to do years ago I don't believe applies any more. The HDMI you're referring to is the original video only version but from what I've read that was changed years ago. HDMI gear and cables that came out in the last few years should have both audio and video but I'm sure there's probably exceptions. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867 |
Thanks Bob. Yes, I remember that post by Peter. I also remember several earlier ones by him that said what I said. The key here is that he said it is new code - that part I did not remember and I will look for Peter's post to re-read it.
The only installed driver for the sound device I use is WDM and it's working in BIAB via the MME choice. But what do I know?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867 |
Ok, I found our discussion of Nov 27, 2012. Peter said BIAB uses MME. We carried on a spirited discussion but this is not a place where Peter said the BIAB MME code was new. Perhaps you can find the correct post for that? Thanks.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,636
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,636 |
This may help with the whole MME/WDM thing. http://www.staudio.de/kb/english/drivers/ It's a little dated, but .. Also WinMM (MME) still handles MIDI, which is pretty important to BiaB.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,867 |
Thanks Bob.
I'm going to want to read that again, at least one more time.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,636
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,636 |
Like I said, the article is dated, but the basic explanation is something I remembered.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687 |
Jeesh, I knew there was a reason I didn't want to really dig into this but it looks like Peter is correct MME is the current and proper term because of latency issues with WDM.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
WDM latency is due to the KMixer.
-Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,632
Posts735,245
Members38,521
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean