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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Awhile back, I posted a thread about latency issues that I'm having with BIAB2014. In spite of patient and generous help from several on this forum, it was never completely resolved. In a nutshell, I experience slight but annoying latency using the MME driver. Switching to ASIO4ALL has not helped as I then get no sound from my MIDI keyboard thru BIAB at all. (Keyboard is a Yamaha DGX640). I've tried following the procedure outlined in PGMusic's Help video about Latency, but it hasn't helped. As a result, I have not used BIAB much at all.
Well, now I'm asking whether perhaps there's another (hopefully more reliable/foolproof) way to "skin the cat". Are there hardware options (the more reasonably priced, the better) that would resolve the latency issues I'm having? Perhaps something with it's own ASIO driver?
If so, I'd appreciate any specific links.
FWIW, my set-up is as follows: DGX-640 connects to Win7 laptop computer via USB. Laptop sound is output to Behringer Xenyx502 Mixer which outputs to either headphones or to M-Audio BX5 monitors.
It's also important to note that I use Pianoteq (separate and apart from BIAB) and there is no issue with latency (also using ASIO4ALL). So I definitely do NOT want any proposed hardware solution to compromise Pianoteq's presently excellent performance.
I know absolutely nothing about any possible hardware options, I'd appreciate any explanation on how/where in my set-up any such device be placed (ie - between piano and computer?; between computer and mixer?; etc.
My main goal is to reduce/eliminate latency when I use my keyboard with BIAB. A secondary goal (but not critical) is to improve the quality or even selection of overall sounds in the system. (Would that involve a hardware synth of some sort? And would that be a totally separate device?)
Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Since I use software synths and MIDI controllers with ASIO4ALL and BiaB on my laptop when travelling and very rarely have any issues with that, I'm thinking that the odd man out in your setup is the Pianoteq software.
So that is what I'd be investigating if I were you, maybe there are internal Settings inside the Pianoteq that need to be tweaked, or something like that.
To be positive that is the case, I'd temporarily invoke *other* MIDI software synths and test the latency with BB and those other synths with the setup, for if all the other software synths can be made to work without the latency issue, then the Pianoteq software would definitely be the place to investigate this.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I gave up a long time ago trying to eliminate latency from my keyboard when using BIAB and a soft synth. My keyboard line out goes to the mixer in parallel with the line out from a MIDI sound module (currently a SD50) which is driven by BIAB, and another line out from the computer to the mixer for real tracks. This works perfectly with no MME/ASIO issues to worry about.
Tony
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Since I use software synths and MIDI controllers with ASIO4ALL and BiaB on my laptop when travelling and very rarely have any issues with that, I'm thinking that the odd man out in your setup is the Pianoteq software.
So that is what I'd be investigating if I were you, maybe there are internal Settings inside the Pianoteq that need to be tweaked, or something like that.
To be positive that is the case, I'd temporarily invoke *other* MIDI software synths and test the latency with BB and those other synths with the setup, for if all the other software synths can be made to work without the latency issue, then the Pianoteq software would definitely be the place to investigate this.
--Mac Mac, I missing something about what you're suggesting. To clarify - Both BIAB and Pianoteq use ASIO4All. However, I DON'T run them at the same time. IOW, I'm running Pianoteq as a standalone, NOT as a VST plug-in, and not at the same time that I'm running BIAB. So, I don't see how Pianoteq would be interfering with BIAB in any way. (Maybe I'm missing something though....). I don't particularly want to continue playing with settings inside BIAB. (As I mentioned earlier, I'm just tired of it....). But I'm willing to try to experiment with another MIDI software synth to verify your point, if that's still reasonable based upon what I just explained about how I'm using Pianoteq. What specific software synth would you suggest trying? - Is there one that's available as a free demo? Thanks.
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The Standalone version and the VSTi version are two different animals, man.
If you don't want to get into the inner workings of the Pianoteq VSTi and experiment, then you aren't likely to find joy there at all, don't know what else to say about that.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I gave up a long time ago trying to eliminate latency from my keyboard when using BIAB and a soft synth. My keyboard line out goes to the mixer in parallel with the line out from a MIDI sound module (currently a SD50) which is driven by BIAB, and another line out from the computer to the mixer for real tracks. This works perfectly with no MME/ASIO issues to worry about.
Tony Thanks for the response about your set-up, Tony. I'm not sure whether that type of set-up would work for me though. If I understand your configuration correctly - your keyboard is not connected to your laptop at all? If that's the case, while it would work for mixing the BIAB output and keyboard output, I wouldn't be able to use Pianoteq (alone) without reconfiguring some cables. (Pianoteq requires that the MIDI controller is connected to the laptop.) Thanks.
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Expert
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Here's the ASIO DirectX you can try ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Hardware/ASIO/Register 32 bit copy asiodxfd.dll file to C:\Windows\System32 goto C:\Windows\System32 click on cmd.exe at prompt type RegSvr32 asiodxfd.dll Restart Register 64bit copy asiodxfd.dll file to C:\Windows\SysWOW64 goto C:\Windows\SysWOW64 right click on cmd.exe run as admin at prompt type RegSvr32 asiodxfd.dll Restart You can change Buffer size for delay, just click on it change, hit enter. 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The A53E should have Realtek audio, you can try this Realtek ASIO Driver: Realtek_ASIO_driver_v1.0.0.1.zip You can adjust latency with the RTASIOCP.exe, might have to right click Run as Admin in Win7 ? In Audio Stetting choose ASIO > Realtek Register 32 bit copy RTHDASIO.dll & RTLCPL.exe file to C:\Windows\System32 goto C:\Windows\System32 click on cmd.exe at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll Restart Register 64bit copy RTHDASIO.dll & RTLCPL.exe file to C:\Windows\SysWOW64 goto C:\Windows\SysWOW64 right click on cmd.exe run as admin at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll Restart
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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I have a number of hardware synths, and most of them have a latency of about 4-6ms - which is for all practical purposes, none.
I believe the Ketron SD2 has the best reputation, but I don't have one so I can't confirm.
I have an array of a half dozen sound modules and a couple of hardware samplers.
A lot of people are going to software synths, and I think that is affecting the hardware market. But I don't think they are ready for me yet - too much latency, too much CPU usage, and that limits how many I can mix together. And when I do mix them, each seems to have a different degree of latency, so they don't work together.
If I were to buy one today, I'd check out the ketron and buy it from a place where I could return it if I didn't like it.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey Solidrock, Thanks for the reply.
Because you posted two different messages, I'm a little confused. A few questions before I try your suggestions:
1. You posted about 2 different files (a file from ftp.steinberg.net and the Realtek ASIO driver). Are you suggesting that I install BOTH, or try the "Steinberg" alone first, and then install the Realtek driver if the first one alone doesn't do the trick? Or only try them one at a time?
2. Will either of these negatively effect ASIO4All which I'm successfully using with Pianoteq (standalone)? Is it OK for a Win7 system to have all 3 files (the Steinberg file, the Realtek file, and ASIO4All) installed concurrently, or is this asking for trouble?
3. Can any of these files be uninstalled easily thru Windows Uninstall function, if need be?
If any of these are successful, I wouldn't need to looks for a hardware solution (and save me some $$$, which is always good).
Thanks!
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks for the recommendation, Notes. I may give that a try after first trying some of the software solutions suggested by Solidrock.
I was hoping to read some useful customer reviews of the Ketron SD2 on Amazon, but there are only three and none are very enlightening unfortunately.
Thanks again.
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I've used -- and loved the sounds -- of the Ketron SD2 since it came out.
Great little MIDI solution, don't let the small size and ease of operation fool you, that is a plus.
When using it out live, lots of other keyboardists ask me what I'm using for my piano sound.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I've used -- and loved the sounds -- of the Ketron SD2 since it came out.
Great little MIDI solution, don't let the small size and ease of operation fool you, that is a plus.
When using it out live, lots of other keyboardists ask me what I'm using for my piano sound.
--Mac Hmmm...Excellent sound, Ease of Operation....An endorsement from you certainly trumps any Amazon Customer Reviews, Mac. Something to consider.... Thanks!
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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I've used -- and loved the sounds -- of the Ketron SD2 since it came out.
Great little MIDI solution, don't let the small size and ease of operation fool you, that is a plus.
When using it out live, lots of other keyboardists ask me what I'm using for my piano sound.
--Mac Hmmm...Excellent sound, Ease of Operation....An endorsement from you certainly trumps any Amazon Customer Reviews, Mac. Something to consider.... Thanks! A friend of mine has the SD-2 and IMHO it is by far the best sounding GM sound set that I have ever heard. Plus there are extra banks with it that also sound excellent!
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The A53E should have Realtek audio, you can try this Realtek ASIO Driver: Realtek_ASIO_driver_v1.0.0.1.zip You can adjust latency with the RTASIOCP.exe, might have to right click Run as Admin in Win7 ? In Audio Stetting choose ASIO > Realtek Register 32 bit copy RTHDASIO.dll file to C:\Windows\System32 goto C:\Windows\System32 click on cmd.exe at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll Restart Register 64bit copy RTHDASIO.dll file to C:\Windows\SysWOW64 goto C:\Windows\SysWOW64 right click on cmd.exe run as admin at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll Restart Solidrock - I did manual installations of both the DirectX ASIO DLL and the Realtek Audio DLL. Latency is about the same (but I do get sounds now when I hit the keys on my keyboard), and there are two other issues: 1.) I get a message that says: "The currently installed soundcard driver does not support Direct Sound Input. Audio Recording is not possible." when I'm in the MIDI/Audio settings dialog in BIAB. This is confirmed in the Windows Sound settings which indicates that there is no recording device installed. (It shows "No audio devices installed" under "Record"). It has always been this way with this laptop. Am I missing some kind of sound input driver? 2. In terms of adjusting the latency using the "RTASIOCP.exe" file - Exactly where should that file be installed? When I highlight Realtek ASIO, then click on "ASIO Driver Control" in BIAB, I either get nothing popping up or a yellow "Error" box. I think that's because this "RTASIOCP.exe" file isn't where it should be. Can you (or anyone) provide any insights to these questions? Thanks!
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 273
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 273 |
The A53E should have Realtek audio, you can try this Realtek ASIO Driver: Realtek_ASIO_driver_v1.0.0.1.zip You can adjust latency with the RTASIOCP.exe, might have to right click Run as Admin in Win7 ? In Audio Stetting choose ASIO > Realtek Register 32 bit copy RTHDASIO.dll file to C:\Windows\System32 goto C:\Windows\System32 click on cmd.exe at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll Restart Register 64bit copy RTHDASIO.dll file to C:\Windows\SysWOW64 goto C:\Windows\SysWOW64 right click on cmd.exe run as admin at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll Restart Solidrock - I did manual installations of both the DirectX ASIO DLL and the Realtek Audio DLL. Latency is about the same (but I do get sounds now when I hit the keys on my keyboard), and there are two other issues: 1.) I get a message that says: "The currently installed soundcard driver does not support Direct Sound Input. Audio Recording is not possible." when I'm in the MIDI/Audio settings dialog in BIAB. This is confirmed in the Windows Sound settings which indicates that there is no recording device installed. (It shows "No audio devices installed" under "Record"). It has always been this way with this laptop. Am I missing some kind of sound input driver? 2. In terms of adjusting the latency using the "RTASIOCP.exe" file - Exactly where should that file be installed? When I highlight Realtek ASIO, then click on "ASIO Driver Control" in BIAB, I either get nothing popping up or a yellow "Error" box. I think that's because this "RTASIOCP.exe" file isn't where it should be. Can you (or anyone) provide any insights to these questions? Thanks! I don't know what happened, but in the time it took for me to write the above post the latency went away! I've closed/re-started BIAB since then, then did the same with the laptop and the latency is now just fine! I hope it continues to be the case. If so, question #2 above is moot. However, I still can't record (Question #1), so could still use some help with that. Thanks!
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Vista, Win7 and Win 8 operating systems disable the "record what you hear" or "stereo mix" feature but it's pretty easy to enable the feature.
Right click on the speaker icon near the system clock to open up a sub menu and select the "Recording devices" option.
Once the Recording devices window opens, right click in a blank area where there is no writing to open another sub menu.
Put checkmarks to enable "Show Disabled Devices" and "Show Disconnected Devices"
Back in the Recording devices window, right click on the stereo mix option and enable the option.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 273
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
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Posts: 273 |
Vista, Win7 and Win 8 operating systems disable the "record what you hear" or "stereo mix" feature but it's pretty easy to enable the feature.
Right click on the speaker icon near the system clock to open up a sub menu and select the "Recording devices" option.
Once the Recording devices window opens, right click in a blank area where there is no writing to open another sub menu.
Put checkmarks to enable "Show Disabled Devices" and "Show Disconnected Devices"
Back in the Recording devices window, right click on the stereo mix option and enable the option. Interesting.....Why on earth would this be disabled by default (and so unintuitive to activate)? This worked exactly as you described, Jim. Thanks!
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
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Expert
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Posts: 1,827 |
Copy RTLCPL.exe to the same location as RTHDASIO.dll that should give you the Realtek ASIO Control Panel from the audio settings.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Newbert, I've said this so many times and I'm laughing right now. Been there, done that. It's a good thing I still have thick hair or I'd be bald by now from all the hair pulling over this stuff.
You have to turn yourself into a computer nerd to work with digital audio. Just the way it is because we're maybe 3% of the market so nobody cares about us except us. This is all easily dismissed with the old farts wave of the hand while mumbling "it's hacker crap". Yes it is and don't worry about the why's or any of that just take notes and learn it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
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Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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