Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#244140 - 03/15/14 05:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution?
newbert Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 262
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Awhile back, I posted a thread about latency issues that I'm having with BIAB2014. In spite of patient and generous help from several on this forum, it was never completely resolved. In a nutshell, I experience slight but annoying latency using the MME driver. Switching to ASIO4ALL has not helped as I then get no sound from my MIDI keyboard thru BIAB at all. (Keyboard is a Yamaha DGX640). I've tried following the procedure outlined in PGMusic's Help video about Latency, but it hasn't helped. As a result, I have not used BIAB much at all.

Well, now I'm asking whether perhaps there's another (hopefully more reliable/foolproof) way to "skin the cat". Are there hardware options (the more reasonably priced, the better) that would resolve the latency issues I'm having? Perhaps something with it's own ASIO driver?

If so, I'd appreciate any specific links.

FWIW, my set-up is as follows: DGX-640 connects to Win7 laptop computer via USB. Laptop sound is output to Behringer Xenyx502 Mixer which outputs to either headphones or to M-Audio BX5 monitors.

It's also important to note that I use Pianoteq (separate and apart from BIAB) and there is no issue with latency (also using ASIO4ALL). So I definitely do NOT want any proposed hardware solution to compromise Pianoteq's presently excellent performance.

I know absolutely nothing about any possible hardware options, I'd appreciate any explanation on how/where in my set-up any such device be placed (ie - between piano and computer?; between computer and mixer?; etc.

My main goal is to reduce/eliminate latency when I use my keyboard with BIAB. A secondary goal (but not critical) is to improve the quality or even selection of overall sounds in the system. (Would that involve a hardware synth of some sort? And would that be a totally separate device?)

Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.

Top
#244147 - 03/15/14 06:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: newbert]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Since I use software synths and MIDI controllers with ASIO4ALL and BiaB on my laptop when travelling and very rarely have any issues with that, I'm thinking that the odd man out in your setup is the Pianoteq software.

So that is what I'd be investigating if I were you, maybe there are internal Settings inside the Pianoteq that need to be tweaked, or something like that.

To be positive that is the case, I'd temporarily invoke *other* MIDI software synths and test the latency with BB and those other synths with the setup, for if all the other software synths can be made to work without the latency issue, then the Pianoteq software would definitely be the place to investigate this.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

Top
#244150 - 03/15/14 07:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: newbert]
Tony Wright Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 575
Loc: Waterloo Ontario Canada
I gave up a long time ago trying to eliminate latency from my keyboard when using BIAB and a soft synth. My keyboard line out goes to the mixer in parallel with the line out from a MIDI sound module (currently a SD50) which is driven by BIAB, and another line out from the computer to the mixer for real tracks. This works perfectly with no MME/ASIO issues to worry about.

Tony

Top
#244165 - 03/15/14 09:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: Mac]
newbert Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 262
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Originally Posted By: Mac
Since I use software synths and MIDI controllers with ASIO4ALL and BiaB on my laptop when travelling and very rarely have any issues with that, I'm thinking that the odd man out in your setup is the Pianoteq software.

So that is what I'd be investigating if I were you, maybe there are internal Settings inside the Pianoteq that need to be tweaked, or something like that.

To be positive that is the case, I'd temporarily invoke *other* MIDI software synths and test the latency with BB and those other synths with the setup, for if all the other software synths can be made to work without the latency issue, then the Pianoteq software would definitely be the place to investigate this.


--Mac


Mac, I missing something about what you're suggesting. To clarify - Both BIAB and Pianoteq use ASIO4All. However, I DON'T run them at the same time. IOW, I'm running Pianoteq as a standalone, NOT as a VST plug-in, and not at the same time that I'm running BIAB. So, I don't see how Pianoteq would be interfering with BIAB in any way. (Maybe I'm missing something though....).

I don't particularly want to continue playing with settings inside BIAB. (As I mentioned earlier, I'm just tired of it....). But I'm willing to try to experiment with another MIDI software synth to verify your point, if that's still reasonable based upon what I just explained about how I'm using Pianoteq. What specific software synth would you suggest trying? - Is there one that's available as a free demo?

Thanks.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.

Top
#244167 - 03/15/14 09:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: newbert]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
The Standalone version and the VSTi version are two different animals, man.

If you don't want to get into the inner workings of the Pianoteq VSTi and experiment, then you aren't likely to find joy there at all, don't know what else to say about that.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

Top
#244168 - 03/15/14 09:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: Tony Wright]
newbert Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 262
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Originally Posted By: Tony Wright
I gave up a long time ago trying to eliminate latency from my keyboard when using BIAB and a soft synth. My keyboard line out goes to the mixer in parallel with the line out from a MIDI sound module (currently a SD50) which is driven by BIAB, and another line out from the computer to the mixer for real tracks. This works perfectly with no MME/ASIO issues to worry about.

Tony


Thanks for the response about your set-up, Tony. I'm not sure whether that type of set-up would work for me though.

If I understand your configuration correctly - your keyboard is not connected to your laptop at all? If that's the case, while it would work for mixing the BIAB output and keyboard output, I wouldn't be able to use Pianoteq (alone) without reconfiguring some cables. (Pianoteq requires that the MIDI controller is connected to the laptop.)

Thanks.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.

Top
#244182 - 03/16/14 12:12 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: newbert]
solidrock Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 1827
Here's the ASIO DirectX you can try
ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Hardware/ASIO/


Register 32 bit
copy asiodxfd.dll file to C:\Windows\System32

goto C:\Windows\System32 click on cmd.exe

at prompt type RegSvr32 asiodxfd.dll
Restart


Register 64bit
copy asiodxfd.dll file to C:\Windows\SysWOW64

goto C:\Windows\SysWOW64 right click on cmd.exe run as admin

at prompt type RegSvr32 asiodxfd.dll
Restart

You can change Buffer size for delay, just click on it change, hit enter.


Top
#244188 - 03/16/14 02:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: newbert]
solidrock Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 1827
The A53E should have Realtek audio, you can try this Realtek ASIO Driver: Realtek_ASIO_driver_v1.0.0.1.zip
You can adjust latency with the RTASIOCP.exe, might have to right click Run as Admin in Win7 ?
In Audio Stetting choose ASIO > Realtek

Register 32 bit
copy RTHDASIO.dll & RTLCPL.exe file to C:\Windows\System32

goto C:\Windows\System32 click on cmd.exe

at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll

to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll

Restart


Register 64bit
copy RTHDASIO.dll & RTLCPL.exe file to C:\Windows\SysWOW64

goto C:\Windows\SysWOW64 right click on cmd.exe run as admin

at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll

to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll

Restart

Top
#244224 - 03/16/14 08:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: newbert]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4174
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
I have a number of hardware synths, and most of them have a latency of about 4-6ms - which is for all practical purposes, none.

I believe the Ketron SD2 has the best reputation, but I don't have one so I can't confirm.

I have an array of a half dozen sound modules and a couple of hardware samplers.

A lot of people are going to software synths, and I think that is affecting the hardware market. But I don't think they are ready for me yet - too much latency, too much CPU usage, and that limits how many I can mix together. And when I do mix them, each seems to have a different degree of latency, so they don't work together.

If I were to buy one today, I'd check out the ketron and buy it from a place where I could return it if I didn't like it.

Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#244241 - 03/16/14 09:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: solidrock]
newbert Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 262
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Hey Solidrock, Thanks for the reply.

Because you posted two different messages, I'm a little confused. A few questions before I try your suggestions:

1. You posted about 2 different files (a file from ftp.steinberg.net and the Realtek ASIO driver). Are you suggesting that I install BOTH, or try the "Steinberg" alone first, and then install the Realtek driver if the first one alone doesn't do the trick? Or only try them one at a time?

2. Will either of these negatively effect ASIO4All which I'm successfully using with Pianoteq (standalone)? Is it OK for a Win7 system to have all 3 files (the Steinberg file, the Realtek file, and ASIO4All) installed concurrently, or is this asking for trouble?

3. Can any of these files be uninstalled easily thru Windows Uninstall function, if need be?

If any of these are successful, I wouldn't need to looks for a hardware solution (and save me some $$$, which is always good).

Thanks!
_________________________
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.

Top
#244243 - 03/16/14 09:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: Notes Norton]
newbert Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 262
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Thanks for the recommendation, Notes. I may give that a try after first trying some of the software solutions suggested by Solidrock.

I was hoping to read some useful customer reviews of the Ketron SD2 on Amazon, but there are only three and none are very enlightening unfortunately.

Thanks again.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.

Top
#244248 - 03/16/14 10:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: newbert]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
I've used -- and loved the sounds -- of the Ketron SD2 since it came out.

Great little MIDI solution, don't let the small size and ease of operation fool you, that is a plus.

When using it out live, lots of other keyboardists ask me what I'm using for my piano sound.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

Top
#244306 - 03/16/14 02:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: Mac]
newbert Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 262
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Originally Posted By: Mac
I've used -- and loved the sounds -- of the Ketron SD2 since it came out.

Great little MIDI solution, don't let the small size and ease of operation fool you, that is a plus.

When using it out live, lots of other keyboardists ask me what I'm using for my piano sound.


--Mac


Hmmm...Excellent sound, Ease of Operation....An endorsement from you certainly trumps any Amazon Customer Reviews, Mac. Something to consider....

Thanks!
_________________________
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.

Top
#244314 - 03/16/14 04:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: newbert]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10258
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: newbert
Originally Posted By: Mac
I've used -- and loved the sounds -- of the Ketron SD2 since it came out.

Great little MIDI solution, don't let the small size and ease of operation fool you, that is a plus.

When using it out live, lots of other keyboardists ask me what I'm using for my piano sound.


--Mac


Hmmm...Excellent sound, Ease of Operation....An endorsement from you certainly trumps any Amazon Customer Reviews, Mac. Something to consider....

Thanks!


A friend of mine has the SD-2 and IMHO it is by far the best sounding GM sound set that I have ever heard. Plus there are extra banks with it that also sound excellent!
_________________________
Never question your wife's choices. You were one of them!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#244316 - 03/16/14 05:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Tired of My Latency Issues w/BIAB2014 - Is There a Hardware Solution? [Re: solidrock]
newbert Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 262
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Originally Posted By: solidrock
The A53E should have Realtek audio, you can try this Realtek ASIO Driver: Realtek_ASIO_driver_v1.0.0.1.zip
You can adjust latency with the RTASIOCP.exe, might have to right click Run as Admin in Win7 ?
In Audio Stetting choose ASIO > Realtek

Register 32 bit
copy RTHDASIO.dll file to C:\Windows\System32

goto C:\Windows\System32 click on cmd.exe

at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll

to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll

Restart


Register 64bit
copy RTHDASIO.dll file to C:\Windows\SysWOW64

goto C:\Windows\SysWOW64 right click on cmd.exe run as admin

at prompt type RegSvr32 RTHDASIO.dll

to un-register RegSvr32 /U RTHDASIO.dll

Restart


Solidrock - I did manual installations of both the DirectX ASIO DLL and the Realtek Audio DLL. Latency is about the same (but I do get sounds now when I hit the keys on my keyboard), and there are two other issues:

1.) I get a message that says: "The currently installed soundcard driver does not support Direct Sound Input. Audio Recording is not possible." when I'm in the MIDI/Audio settings dialog in BIAB.

This is confirmed in the Windows Sound settings which indicates that there is no recording device installed. (It shows "No audio devices installed" under "Record"). It has always been this way with this laptop. Am I missing some kind of sound input driver?

2. In terms of adjusting the latency using the "RTASIOCP.exe" file - Exactly where should that file be installed? When I highlight Realtek ASIO, then click on "ASIO Driver Control" in BIAB, I either get nothing popping up or a yellow "Error" box. I think that's because this "RTASIOCP.exe" file isn't where it should be.

Can you (or anyone) provide any insights to these questions?

Thanks!
_________________________
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


PG Music News
RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_3

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 505 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can update their version with the latest patch - Build 505.

This patch can be downloaded here.

Summary of changes for Build 505:

Added: You can now put Section Numbers in your song. Previously you could only use letters A-Z, but now you can use 1-9 as well.
Added:You can now filter styles in the StylePicker for styles that contain Video RealTracks.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error "Procedure entry point MFTEnumEx could not be found in the Dynamic Link Library Mfplat.DLL" while starting up if using Windows Vista.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error message "dwmapi.dll cannot be found" while starting up if using Windows XP.
Fixed: The Transcribe feature in the Audio Edit window was not always working.
Fixed: The Windows Audio Devices dialog might show garbage text for names of devices if not running Band-in-a-Box in English.
Fixed: There was no Quality selector in the Render to Audio File dialog if rendering MP3 on Windows 7 or earlier.
Fixed: There were visual artifacts in the leadsheet & notation windows when moving the cursor.
Fixed: Using the Transpose or stretching features in the Audio Edit window might cause an access violation if the audio track is mono.
Improved: Band-in-a-Box will start up faster.
Improved: Importing ABC Notation files has been improved.
Updated: Help file and manuals.
Updated: RealTracks Artist bio's.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#505

New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows... Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.
TIP: If you load one of the video RealTracks bands, you will have video RealTracks on 5 tracks, and you can make a video of 1-5 musicians!

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows packages during our December special.
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Holiday Special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: Video link - "Video RealTracks Sets 1-6 for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows"

Video - 202 NEW RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows we also released 202 NEW RealTracks (in Sets 278-300)! Listen to all the individual demos here: www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.202newrealtracks.htm, or watch our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 202 New RealTracks Overview Video: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qDFYZMjrzAI

Get all 202 new RealTracks when you purchase any Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade, on sale until December 31st!

NEW! Xtra Styles PAK 4 - Available for both Windows and Mac!

We've just released Xtra Styles PAK 4 with over 150 new RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and 'Folk and Beyond' styles! These new RealStyles will work with the RealTracks included in any Band-in-a-Box® version 2017 or higher UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition.

To add to the excitement of this release, we're putting all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

Listen to all the demos of these new Xtra Styles here, or check out this video: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=Zl_wr47d2V0

Video - The Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts over 50 new features and enhancements... including the Build-in Audio Chord Wizard!

The Audio Chord Wizard has been redesigned with Band-in-a-Box® 2018, and is now built in to the program! Previously, the Audio Chord Wizard was a separate app that was not tightly integrated into Band-in-a-Box®. This app is still available from the [Audio Chord Wizard] toolbar button, but now the improved built-in Audio Chord Wizard can be accessed from the Audio Edit Window!

Watch our latest video to learn more: Video link - Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 2 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can download a small (free) patch update for their purchase!

Summary of patch update:
Access violation if clicking on Guitar Window or Big Piano when there isn't any notation window currently open.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_2

Forum Stats
26698 Members
50 Forums
48812 Topics
398909 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
Phil Taylor, Poppins, Mannnolo, sebz77, KGU 2

26697 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Matt Finley 366
VideoTrack 346
Noel96 195
jford 187
PeterGannon 184
Al-David 171
furry 167
Rob4580 137
Russell DeMussel 110
Scott C 107
Today's Birthdays
davidbrown, dbapro11g