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A lot of the Realdrum tracks are very well played, but in a mix there is no way to tweak individual drum volumes and EQs when I import the tracks to a DAW, Cubase in this case. Is there a development in the works that would give more control to the drums? I would even be willing to take the time to export each drum separately in BIAB in order to be able control them in the DAW.
Fivehands
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Yes it would be great to have more control and it has been requested so many times. For now you can use something like EZDrummer in Realband or you can drag the RealDrums wma/wav file into RB then match the tempo by right clicking on the drum track and select Time Stretch, then you can use any parts you like where you like. You can also get multitrack drum loops.
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To allow more control of the individual parts of the drum kit, it would likely need to be midi and not audio. As such, there are plenty of really good sounding drums synths on the market that already serve that purpose and have that ability. I have several of them myself.
For audio, that would involve having a special drum version of BB/RB to deal exclusively with the drum kit tracks, put them all together and coordinate them in such a way as to make all the individual tracks come together as one drummer playing. Hard or not hard to do? IDK....that would be a question for the programmers at PG and perhaps the very reason why this hasn't happened yet.
I would like to see this too..... to have better control over the drums in the kit. For now, I use EQ and multiband compression to get what I want, or closer to it from the existing tracks I get from the drummers in RB.
When push comes to shove, and I can not get BB or RB to give me what I need, I will either export the midi drums from BB ...or.... allow Jamstix to create a new part for me and then I can edit that part by part, and control the individual kit parts by volume, velocity, damping, resonance, room size, timbre, brand of drum, size of head, and much, much more.
It mostly depends on how "critical" the drum parts are to the song and to some extent, if I'm lazy or in a hurry or have time to mess with the details. 90% of the time the RB tracks will work perfectly.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/11/14 04:47 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I have got XLN Addictive drums myself, I just force the track to midi in real drum prefs and then load the addictive drumns plugin in drum track.
Some interesting sounds in it, but to be honest the realdrums compare very favourably if not better for the genre.
Wonder has anyone else got addictive drums and how it compares to jamstix?
Thanks
Musiclover
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Yeah, I've got drum VSTs coming out of the yinyang. Battery, Ocean Way, just bought EZ, just bought Heavyocity DM 307, got Jamstix, got a controller set, I play drums, got Kong in Reason, BFD refill in Reason, BFD Eco, BFD 2 and more. Just thought that the drum tracks in BIAB have some nice feels and a good human element, and so they seem to go to waste because I end up not using them just because they are entirely a stereo mix.
Fivehands
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Yeah, that would be perfect and so much easier to edit.
Fivehands
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This comes up all the time. You guys are too used to midi control and somehow think that will translate to a stereo audio file.
Rephrase the question to this:
I'm listening to my favorite CD right now and I sure wish I could just throw that fully mixed CD into my DAW and separate all the parts. Why can't I do that?
Think about that for a minute because that's what the RD's are. It's like listening to the Stones or Tower of Power and thinking wow if I just had Garibaldi's drum track think what I could do. Uhh, no if you had access to that track you would hear all kinds of bleed through from all the different mic's on his drum kit.
Hmmm, lets see if I put a mic on the cymbals it won't pick up any snare hits at all right? Oh, how about the hi hat? That's easier than recording the cymbals? Right next to the snare and kick? A mic won't pick up the snare and kick, just the hi hat so you can work with it in isolation?
Don't think so. You guys are forgetting they're recording a live drummer playing a full drum kit in real time. Individual drum hits are what's recorded and used in midi drum samplers like Jamstix or EZDrums.
Bob
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Yeah, that would be perfect and so much easier to edit. Yes for sure and be able to use them in a surround mix, there is no way they are going to still have stereo drums for the next 50 years and be stuck there and say it is impossible to do it any other way.
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I'm not forgetting that it's a real drummer playing a kit in real time, all I'm wondering is if there was any way to have multitrack drums. Like compressed to a non lossy format so they don't take up much room on the hard drive. If you listen to the tracks that were used as an example that's exactly what they were, all tracks had incredible amounts of bleed, but with 8 tracks there's a lot more control in the mixing stage that's all.
Fivehands
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There was not much difference in file size of the RealDrums Stereo wma file and the wma multichannel file.
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The thing I like about RD is that they ARE human from the the git-go.
While there are times I'd like to be able to isolate the kick or the snare, unless they are recorded from a midi based E-Kit, that ain't gonna happen due to the bleed.
So, as I pointed out earlier, multiband compression and use of EQ allows me to get more snap out of the snare and more kick out of the kick.
I think too, that lots of folks (IMHO) using midi drums, unless they are truly a drummer, tend to mix the kit inaccurately more often than not. I recall my own experiences in dealing with all the many options I have available in Jamstix..... it's easy to mess up a good sounding kit by tweeking things too much.
With RD... what you hear is what you got.... for the most part.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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At the end of the day you are pretty limited to what you can do with Stereo RealDrums, there should be option to generate intros, different endings and fills etc.. there is no button to "Cut Loose" and generate a great drum solo and not be restricted as if playing in a church. I think soon you will see Super RealDrums that will be Multichannel, do all of this and have a lot more variation to choose from. They will still of course have Stereo RealDrums for those who don't need or want to venture any further, just as you still have a choice of Midi Drums over RealDrums. With just this you are limited, don't get me wrong they are great but not the end of the story. 
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If getting Multitracks of the drum performances is not doable for PG Music, then how about the MIDI tracks of the Stereo performances of the RDs, you know, with all the velocity and timing imperfections and human feel? I mean the more sophisticated VSTs, like BFD, have bleed and ambience controls too, which are very important to getting a realistic sounding drum track in a mix. Some of the RTs, apparently, have a MIDI option to them too don't they? So why not the DRUMS too? In this way the drums would be able to retain the original feels if desired and the sound and mixing options would have virtually no limits.
Fivehands
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Yep sure. RealDrum Charts, SuperMidiDrums have been requested so you get the actual human playing and you want to use midi. Sergio has a great site www.realdrumsforbiab.com and BB/RB drums at a very good price, you get the midi track also, not sure if he uses a Electronic Kit or Acoustic with triggers. As for RealDrums when I've recorded with 5 or 10 mics you still have to downmix them to stereo but at least you have control of the end result.
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I own addictive drums, ex drummer both and to be honest...
I use real drums more than those because the real drums make wonderful fills just where I want them on the song without all the hassle of midi clips... Personally if you moved a whole kit and played it back I probably wouldn't be able to pick it out better than the same track done with real drums...
On another note: melodyne can convert you real drum stereo track to midi so you can get more control see previous post of mine... I believe you may need the editor version or so Ian told....
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I haven't tried it with Melodyne DNA, but I read somewhere that it can't be done correctly because of the cross frequencies of the different drums. You won't get a real blob translation. The only thing you can do is use the Percussive translation setting and with that you can just alter timing. But I guess it's worth a try, it's been on my list of things to try. And YEAH, SuperMidi DRUM performances, that's what should be happening.
Fivehands
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Why not just export the drum track a 'mono' track, then have 5/6 copies in your DAW through a group track and all eq'd differently.
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While we are talking drums, EZdrummer 2 is set to release May 5. It really looks like a significant upgrade with some cool features, and lets face it can we ever have too many options for drums? http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=7
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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I have a prerelease of EZDrummer 2 for a review I will be writing and is sure is a very exciting new version. Much more just an update. I have also just read that there will be a brand new version of Addictive Drums (Addictive Drums 2.0) released on about a week later than EZDrummer 2 so I guess we will be spoiled for choice for great drum products.
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