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#250772 - 05/22/14 01:54 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: 90 dB]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2058
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
"G'wan kid, ya bodda me!" grin

then my work here is done! laugh


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (05/22/14 01:54 PM)

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#250773 - 05/22/14 01:55 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Danny C.]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5298
We started selling merchandise because people.... the fans, were asking us if we had or planned to sell shirts and other things.

Just like the big acts of today.... the fans we had were a loyal bunch and followed us from town to town.

Yes, even the big boys and girls in the business of music know that the music is a "loss leader" to sell tickets to concerts and t-shirts, posters, 8x10 glossies, and more to the fans at the shows. For them , the money isn't really in the music, it's in the merch and endorsements.

Sad as that may seem and I'm sure some folks will call that a "sell out" to the money..... but hey, that's the reality of the business world.

Make hay while the sun shines. Many of the artists will not have long and prosperous careers. Ever watch the show about the rock stars of yesterday....I think it was called "What are they doing now?" Once the ride is over, it's very likely over for good.
_________________________
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Add nothing that adds nothing to the music

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#250778 - 05/22/14 03:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Danny C.]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4508
Loc: Florida
We don't have any fans. Just drunks. grin
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#250786 - 05/22/14 06:55 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Danny C.]
Don Gaynor Offline
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7613
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Another thought: My son-in-law owned a better-quality furniture factory in Washington State. One day the buyers from Sears walked in, quite unexpectedly, and, with a bare minimum of dickering, bought his entire production. That meant canceling all open orders from their bread and butter accounts, the small Mom and Pop dealers. Now, Sears started playing hardball and dictating prices. They were ruined, driven out of business. Their customer base was gone.

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#250792 - 05/22/14 08:00 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Pat Marr]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6444
Loc: South Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
bottom line, I think there will ALWAYS be a market for music... we just need to figure out what works today.

around here...

Weddings continue to hire live bands

public events are big consumers of live music

music festivals are all over the place

rest homes are filling up as the population ages, and they have a need (and usually a budget) for entertainment

There is the emerging live streaming phenomenon, with an ever increasing number of sites and exposure to new audiences

it has never been easier to make your music available for sale online

and for the small act that advertises, there are private parties all the time for birthdays, graduations, reunions, retirements etc... if the price is right, people love live music

That's off the top of my head.. y'all can probably think of a lot more.



Pat,

With the exception of weddings you just described my music. Heck I can sometime be found at a car dealership playing music to back "THE GREATEST CAR SALE OF ALL TIME".

PS: I was shouting at you just like he TV commercials do, sorry.

Later,
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#250793 - 05/22/14 08:02 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: 90 dB]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6444
Loc: South Louisiana
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
We don't have any fans. Just drunks. grin


LOL, sometimes those are the best.

Later,
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www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

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#250794 - 05/22/14 08:07 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: floyd jane]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6444
Loc: South Louisiana
Originally Posted By: floyd jane


I'd buy some of these if I could afford them.

PS; Floyd I was honored to have you at my Streetjelly show my friend.

Later,
_________________________
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www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

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#250800 - 05/22/14 11:30 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: floyd jane]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7236
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Originally Posted By: floyd jane

You missed your calling - graphic designers of Nashville, lookout!

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#250805 - 05/23/14 12:12 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: JoanneCooper]
Al-David Offline
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Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 2539
Loc: Alabama, USA
Hi Joanne ...

I partially agree ... more so than not.

I have played numerous performances for "free" ... meaning the event organizer/promoter/manger paid me nothing. I made a few dollars from tips ... a form of busking, I guess. But, here's my approach to such things:

Perhaps I could have made $50.00 - $100.00 doing a pay gig. But probably not or I wouldn't have had that time spot available for the "free" gig! The advertising I get from those performances can be valuable and is much cheaper than buying print/audio/visual ads. People find out when and where I'm playing live gigs and often come out to hear the "pay" performances. I've also sold a little music at these "free" performances. You just have to be smart about when and where you do it.

However, some folks will say they would never play/perform without some sort of guaranteed compensation as they see it as being "used", or some similar term. And that's cool. I just see some of those "free" gigs as advertising opportunities and getting more name recognition. I guess there's no wrong or right ... just depends on the approach and attitude of the performer. Good luck with your music!

Alan


Edited by Al-David (05/23/14 12:13 AM)
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#250831 - 05/23/14 10:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: 90 dB]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4222
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
<...snip...>
“If I want to give my product away free for the joy of doing so that's my business and I'll do it if I want to.”

That statement perfectly illustrates the problem addressed in the OP.
Try handing out free hot dogs at a pro ballpark, or free beers in someone's bar. Let me know how that works out for you. grin <...>


Try going into that very same venue and instead of giving away free music, try giving away free drinks to the customers and see how long you last.

When I was a kid, we tried to sell some pineapples we grew in front of the local Kwik Check grocery store. The manager came out and gave us a lecture telling us he would rather not call the police to get us to stop.

Back almost to the topic...or at least the sub-subject of adaption.

Yes, you have to adapt to the ever-changing music business. When I was young, a number of old guys were waiting for the big-bands to come back, and refused to play any of that "rack and roll".

When we started playing Country Clubs, even Elvis Presley songs were too recent for the audience, now it's too old for most, and they want to hear Baby Boomer music, Disco and even a few new ones like Blurred Lines.

Rewind a little: I used to play in 4 to 6 or 7 piece rock bands - that was what horn players did. But I had the guitarist and bass player show me how to get around on their instruments, and doubled on a few songs. When we backed Freddie "Boom Boom" Cannon, he heard our group and asked me to play bass because he thought I was better than the bass player (I wasn't better, just picked up things quicker).

That served me well because in the psychedelic era, nobody wanted to hear saxophones for a while so I played bass for a living.

When we were having too many personnel problems in bands to keep working steadily, I decided to go to the duo market by making my own backing tracks. I did it first by recording the tracks on a Teac 4 track reel-to-reel and mixing to cassette. Then came MIDI sequencers and that made my job easier. No, it didn't put anyone out of work as we played smaller venues.

You need to adapt to the changing market, but how can you adapt at people who give away what you are selling? Even if the quality isn't nearly as good, it's free.

True musicians need to play, and music needs an audience. Many musicians would hate it if people started pirating their CDs and other merchandise or stealing the songs they wrote. Then why is it OK to steal another musician's livelihood by taking his job away and playing for free?

If you live by the "Do unto others", or the "Thou shalt not steal" ethics, it can't be OK.

So here's my suggestion. The next time you go out to play for free in a commercial venue, take along a cooler full of cold beer and give away free beers to the customers.

Insights and incites by Notes
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#250835 - 05/23/14 10:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Danny C.]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4508
Loc: Florida
MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..................free beer............

_________________________
Dyslectics Untie!


https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/90-db



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#250845 - 05/23/14 12:09 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Danny C.]
Don Gaynor Offline
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Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7613
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Notes, you are entirely too logical!

As Jack Benny would say: "Now, cut that out!" (oot, in Canada).

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#250851 - 05/23/14 12:45 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Danny C.]
Pat Marr Online   content
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7453
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:
No, it didn't put anyone out of work as we played smaller venues.


This is a key point in the discussion, and a point well worth repeating, which is why I quoted it.

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#250853 - 05/23/14 12:50 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Notes Norton]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2058
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
Many musicians would hate it if people started pirating their CDs and other merchandise or stealing the songs they wrote. Then why is it OK to steal another musician's livelihood by taking his job away and playing for free?

because, in America (and most other western countries), pirating CDs and stealing songs is against the law. however, playing for free is NOT against the law. in fact, selling cheaper or even giving stuff away, is a classic American business tradition!

Quote:
If you live by the "Do unto others", or the "Thou shalt not steal" ethics, it can't be OK.

Baloney! As noted above playing for free is perfectly legal. If playing for free violates your personal code of ethics then don't do it. But your code of ethics only applies to you...not the rest of us! smile

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#250854 - 05/23/14 12:55 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Performing for Nothing, your views? [Re: Notes Norton]
Pat Marr Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7453
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:
Try going into that very same venue and instead of giving away free music, try giving away free drinks to the customers and see how long you last.

When I was a kid, we tried to sell some pineapples we grew in front of the local Kwik Check grocery store. The manager came out and gave us a lecture telling us he would rather not call the police to get us to stop.


This is an excellent point. It stands up well to logical scrutiny, but not to practical application. The fact is that establishments have the clout to make you stop competing against them on their own turf, but musicians have no clout to crack down on other musicians who undermine their livelihood by playing for free.

Which puts the scenario squarely back in the realm of change that we can't control, we can only adapt to it.

or not

And, Notes, to me you are the poster child of adaptation... at every change point along the way you have accurately sized up the situation and taken whatever path gave you an advantage. Most of my current opinions about the viability of music going forward are based on your posts here. Not everybody has the insight to see past what is currently true and focus on what COULD be true... but you are one who has that ability.

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