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#250303 - 05/19/14 07:20 AM [Off-Topic] Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ?
Joe V Offline
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Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 988
Loc: NYC
Hi all,

I love the sound of the pedal steel guitar - the twanginess, volume swells, legato and stacatto mix of connected notes.

BB has EXCELLENT steel guitar sounds - but I'd like to reproduce some of them live - without the expense and learning curve of buying and learning to play the actual instrument.

Have any of you felt this way - and selected a guitar and boxes to mimic the beauty of the sound ?

Also - have any of you liked the sound so much you transitioned from electric guitar to pedal steel ? How'd that go, what was different and surprising, and how long until you enjoyed what you heard coming out of it ?

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#250304 - 05/19/14 07:37 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
Hi Joe. Since you already have the quality steel sounds that come with BB, you can create unique and original riffs within the program by comping sections from the several takes into one track.

I've found that some sounds are easier to accurately mimic than others but I'm not familiar with any modules in my price range that consistently capture the uniqueness of the pedal steel.

Regards,


Charlie
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#250310 - 05/19/14 08:03 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5532
Trying to get that sound live on stage....with a guitar. Yes, I have to admit, I've tried that as has several other guitar players in bands I have been in through the years.

Yes, to one degree or another, it's possible to get surprisingly close for short licks. Of course, it will not sound completely like a steel guitar but you can emulate some of the licks. The problem is that once you fade in and do a fancy little bend, you have a very difficult time from that point going to a slide into the next chord and changing a note in the chord. The pedals on the steel and the knee levers give the steel a super advantage over a normal 6 string.

Usually, a bright sounding guitar such as a Telecaster or a Stratocaster, makes it easier since they have that bright clean metallic sound...AND..... they have a volume knob that is really close to the bridge so that creating volume swells is easier.

Then, it's simply a matter of learning the hot country sounding licks that sound like a steel and working that volume knob.

Consider another option. Lap steel. There are no pedals and levers on a lap steel. It's all about the bar, the tuning used, and the player's skills.


Listen to country picker and session man Albert Lee. That guy does a lot of cool things on a guitar.

Also... youtube has some stuff that might be helpful : Pedal Steel licks on a Guitar


Edited by Guitarhacker (05/19/14 08:12 AM)
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#250311 - 05/19/14 08:06 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7483
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Joe,

I've been experimenting favorably with a guitar effect pedal by Digitech named HarmonyMan

If you play the guitar with a slide and experiment with the various harmony settings you can get it to sound AMAZINGLY like a pedal steel guitar... especially if you also use a volume pedal or reverb that includes swell.

By using a harmony pedal you get several advantages:

1) you don't have to angle the slide to get correct harmonies.. single note solos get automatically turned into chords

2) you can turn off the effect when you only need one note at a time

3) one of the harmony settings on this pedal actually allows some notes in the chord to remain the same while other notes rise or fall, which is exactly whet the pedals do on a pedal steel.

4) if the action on your guitar is set high enough to use a slide but low enough the play normally, this opens up a world of possibilities.

5) it isn't just a trick for recording.. this also works quite well in a live performance!


I like this pedal for other reasons too. Most harmony pedals limit you to scale-based harmonies, but many songs don't stay in the same key throughout the song. THIS pedal is capable of following the chords, adapting the harmony on the fly


Edited by Pat Marr (05/19/14 08:12 AM)
Edit Reason: added info

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#250317 - 05/19/14 08:31 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Pat Marr]
GHinCH Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
HarmonyMan is a discontinued product (I haven't checked for a follow-up product). But this guy does an icredible job of mimicking the pedal steel sounds on guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mPvRRzVpLb0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddu-Bg1jde4

Guido


Edited by GHinCH (05/19/14 08:34 AM)
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#250355 - 05/19/14 01:31 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: GHinCH]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7483
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: GHinCH
HarmonyMan is a discontinued product


that means they'll be showing up on ebay and craigslist at reduced prices!

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#250361 - 05/19/14 02:17 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2097
Hey Joe! I have no experience with pedal steel but I bought a square neck resonator guitar in December and it is taking longer than I had hoped to come up to speed with it! If you already have slide experience that will probably help.

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#250372 - 05/19/14 04:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10812
Loc: Hamlin NY
Joe, if you have an extra guitar around you can get a Slide guitar extension nut http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/reviewme/4596?submitreview=true&utm_source=rebopp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20140322#submitreview
for $3.77 USD.

I have one on an old strat copy and it works just fine. You may also want to get a lap slide also
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Accessories/Capos,_slides/Shubb-Pearse_Guitar_Steel.html?actn=100101&xst=1&xsr=4596

I tune that strat to the key of E.
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#250375 - 05/19/14 04:19 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: MarioD]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4591
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Joe, if you have an extra guitar around you can get a Slide guitar extension nut http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/reviewme/4596?submitreview=true&utm_source=rebopp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20140322#submitreview
for $3.77 USD.

I have one on an old strat copy and it works just fine. You may also want to get a lap slide also
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Accessories/Capos,_slides/Shubb-Pearse_Guitar_Steel.html?actn=100101&xst=1&xsr=4596

I tune that strat to the key of E.




Mario-

Thanks for the tip. I've got an old Squire Strat that I'm gonna put one of those on.
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#250423 - 05/20/14 12:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7483
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
I don't even bother with the extension nut... I just slip a finishing nail under the strings near the regular nut, and it raises the string height just enough to use the slide.

Later in the set when I need to have a regular guitar, the nail slips out easily.

You can even treat it like a "slide capo", sliding it under the strings at any fret. this can be useful when you want the open strings to be in the key of the song

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#250441 - 05/20/14 06:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
Joe V Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 988
Loc: NYC
As always - you guys never disappoint. I'm embarrassed but honest enought to say though I've used the term "pedal steel" often - it never occurred to me that it had pedals !!

And the video suggestions, stomp box and 'nut' suggestions - obviously this is a very desirable sound to many guitar players on the forum.

Thanks for all the suggestions - I'm enjoying (and tinkering with) them immensely.

Appreciatively,
Joe V.

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#250451 - 05/20/14 08:03 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5532
Originally Posted By: Joe V
As always - you guys never disappoint. I'm embarrassed but honest enought to say though I've used the term "pedal steel" often - it never occurred to me that it had pedals !!



and knee levers too....
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#250495 - 05/20/14 12:46 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7483
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
as time allows, I'm going to post a video or sound snippet of the technique I suggested... but in messing around preparing for the video, it occurred to me that most of what I was doing with the harmony pedal was scale based... so any harmony creating device should work.

From a recording standpoint, you should be able to play single note slide guitar into Real Band, then apply the TC Helicon harmonizer to it and get something pretty close to what I'm talking about.

If you added harmony to a copy of the single note track, you could use volume envelopes to switch seamlessly between the tracks for parts where you don't need a full chord.

in fact, you could also use volume envelopes to substitute for the volume pedal used by pedal steel players to fade in the sound.

BTW, I like to add a 3rd and 5th to the single note in order to get the full chord sound so often played on steel guitars.

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#252264 - 06/01/14 02:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Joe V]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7483
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
OK, here's the snippet I promised to demo the use of a harmony pedal, volume pedal and slide guitar imitating the sound of a pedal steel guitar.

Its a quick & dirty one-take 2 minute demo, so don't expect a stellar production. wink

I purposefully did not use the volume pedal throughout the demo... that way you can identify spots where the use of it changes the sound, and you can get an idea of the range of sounds that are available using this technique.

CLICK HERE FOR DEMO VIDEO

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#252346 - 06/02/14 08:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Best way to get Steel Guitar sound out of standard electric ? [Re: Pat Marr]
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5532
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
OK, here's the snippet I promised to demo the use of a harmony pedal, volume pedal and slide guitar imitating the sound of a pedal steel guitar.

Its a quick & dirty one-take 2 minute demo, so don't expect a stellar production. wink

I purposefully did not use the volume pedal throughout the demo... that way you can identify spots where the use of it changes the sound, and you can get an idea of the range of sounds that are available using this technique.

CLICK HERE FOR DEMO VIDEO


That is, without a doubt, one of the best guitar versions of a steel I've seen. Of course there are always lap steels and we forget about them quite often because they are the less well known little brother to the pedal steel, and not quite a guitar. Although, folks who master them (listen to David Lindley playing one with Jackson Brown on the Running on Empty LP) are quite amazing.

I noticed a rod to raise the action.... absolutely necessary..... and did you use other than standard guitar tuning on this? kinda sounds like you did. If so, what was it?
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PG Music News
User Tip - Slowing Down and Looping Audio in Band-in-a-Box®

Forum user DeaconBlues09 created a video tutorial to help answer a fellow forum user's question:
Using the Audio Chord Wizard to tempo map, slow down, and learn the notes of an audio track - video link http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=R09Lf3bHjhQ

Forum thread: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=467504

Thanks for sharing!

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With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2006 for Windows we added two great games for ear training: Pitch Invasion and Music Replay!

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Music Replay develops your pitch, rhythm, and melody recognition by replaying what the program plays, in note, rhythm, or melodic modes.

These games can still be accessed with newer versions of the program - in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 you'll find these by accessing the Practice Window or Ear Training Window, both located in the Window drop-down menu. The Practice Window can also be accessed using the Practice button within the main Band-in-a-Box screen (don't see it? CTRL+T to change the view).

Learn all about the features released with Version 2006 here.

Video: Exporting Audio Files in Band-in-a-Box® 2018

Our latest video, Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - Exporting Audio Files Tutorial walks you through the different options to export your Band-in-a-Box® songs and song tracks from Band-in-a-Box® as an audio file (WAV, MP3, etc.)!

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Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Build 516 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box 2018 for Windows customer can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#516

Summary of changes:
Improved: More RealTracks have HiQ transcriptions. Fixed Bass AmericanaSlow16thsByron bad chords.
Improved: The Audio Drivers dialog for WAS devices now shows Bit Depth in the device description.
Improved: WAS audio driver performance has been Improved when using 44.1 kHz sample rate.
Improved: Windows Audio Session error messages contain more specific information.
Updated: Misc. updates to StylePicker database, memos, manuals, help files.
Fixed: "BBW.LST not found" errors when using the Hybrid Style maker dialog.
Fixed: "mono" was being ignored when rendering a batch of songs to audio files.
Fixed: "normalize individual tracks" was only working for MIDI tracks.
Fixed: "One file per track" was being ignored when rendering a batch of songs to audio files.
Fixed: Access violation on bootup if using a Roland audio interface (ASIO) that is not connected.
Fixed: Adjusting Melody or Soloist tracks to fit a new number of choruses was not undo-able.
Fixed: An access violation error might occur in the RealTracks Picker if quickly scrolling and double-clicking to hear demos.
Fixed: Changing a track name using the StylePicker mixer controls might open a hidden popup window.
Fixed: Changing the number of choruses was not undo-able.
Fixed: Clicking on the far left of the Guitar window would cause a "!!!!!" flash message to show.
Fixed: If adjusting the number of choruses in your song, choosing Cancel is ignored when asked, "OK to adjust Melody track to fit new # of choruses?".
Fixed: JazzBebopDannyBrushes sometimes out of sync.
Fixed: Panning the audio track did not work.
Fixed: Some Amplitube presets/styles/demos pointed to a preset which wasn't available in some installs.
Fixed: Some typos and omissions in RealDrums Picker.
Fixed: The [.STY] button in the Hybrid Style maker dialog.
Fixed: The [Get Patch/Drum Kit Info] button in the MIDI drivers dialog would not find the synthesizer documentation.
Fixed: The About dialog was not showing the Fretlight Ready logo.
Fixed: The Audio Chord Wizard would always run in English.
Fixed: The busy mouse cursor might remain after analyzing audio with the Audio Chord Wizard.
Fixed: The PDF driver installer could not be launched from Band-in-a-Box.
Fixed: The Plugins window would be too small when using plugins that have a small GUI.
Fixed: Using a Coyote DXi synthesizer (eg CoyoteWT or ForteDXi) might cause crackling/buzzing noise during playback.
Fixed: Using a multi speaker layout (eg. 4 speakers surround sound) instead of stereo might cause failure to connect to audio hardware with error -9996. This only happened when using WAS as audio driver type.
Fixed: Video rendering would fail if saved using Japanese characters in file name.
Fixed: When saving a Hybrid style for the first time, the File Save dialog should start in the Styles directory.

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Great program with lots of support through the publisher and after-market. Use it for teaching, practicing, and gigging.
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I love this program. I have only had it for around a month but it has made things a lot easier for me. I no longer have to scour the internet for backing tracks. I just plug in the chords I want to use, find the style I want and done. Saving me so much time and being able to transpose into different keys is awesome too.
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Incredible Software. Great for ignorance and experts and for anyone who wants to deal with music. If you do not have a hobby and want to have one "band in a box" is the best choice. Simple, but if you want to be an expert on it, you need to make an effort to master it perfectly for perfect use. The only disadvantage is if you do not want to become a musician, and use it, you will become a perfect musician. Therefore, be cautious. It's not a toy.
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I’ve been using it for about the same time (20 years). I’m a trumpet player and just really want some backing on lead sheets. With the Real Styles - it sounds fantastic! Takes just minutes to input chord changes and find the right style. There is so much you can do and I love having the Soloist features to really add color.
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