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#256168 - 07/12/14 08:33 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: Guitarhacker]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
When you finally learn how to mix properly, the mixes you produce will sound reasonably good on every system they are played on. It's the amateurs who mix to their "studio" speakers and then play it in a car and are disappointed by the unbalanced mix.

Do you seriously think the big mixing studios have the time to model every single environment where a song might be played? Absolutely not. They know what they are doing and they use one set of monitors consistently. Some of them may take the time to "check the mix" (probably spot checking) on a mono rig. I'm sure some do, but most of them know what they're doing and don't need to, or have the time, to check their work on a dozen different speakers or environments.


but most of the people on this forum aren't big-time full-time recording engineers who have the time or experience to attain that mastery. Forum discussion, by its very nature, is about exchanging ideas, techniques and product information to help one another improve.

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#256186 - 07/12/14 10:42 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: critter]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
post removed because upon further reading I conclude that it was probably wrong wrong all wrong.

wink



Edited by Pat Marr (07/13/14 06:10 PM)
Edit Reason: unwillingness to spread misconceptions

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#256192 - 07/12/14 12:41 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: Gary Curran]
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2069
Loc: New Mexico
Originally Posted By: Gary Curran
Josie, and Critter,
...

But, one of the biggest issues that we have as a small company is that people don't really know what they are listening to. I could record a Steinway Grand Piano in a concert hall with two mics, and the present it to you in three forms, a.) unaltered, b.) with a small amount of harmonic distortion, and c.) louder, and you would probably pick 'B' or 'C' as the better sounding. Why? Because most people do not know what a properly mic'd piano in a concert hall really sounds like.


...
Gary




Just for fun a good experiment would be to have a 100 listeners (50 musicians and 50 music lovers but non-musicians), one at a time, sit blindfolded in the same concert hall at a to be defined "optimum" listening position (whatever that means, but they must sit way off stage in the audience seating area, not on or near stage) with a that SAME recorded piano:

1) live or actual and we'll call that option

a.) true

2- though "top 'o the line" monitors, and clearly best uncolored power amps money can buy, positioned at same location as piano (listener should not be able to tell acoustically that anything has moved or is "different") using your

b.) unaltered,
c.) with a small amount of harmonic distortion, and
d.) louder.


Then get them to pick BEST

- overall (one out of four) and also

- A versus B (true versus unaltered) - actually can they tell true from sampled????

I wonder what sampling results would look like?

And what would conclusion be if a statistically significant number of musicians do NOT PICK the actual live piano (they pick options b, c, or d at alpha of say .1 (please note: this is a fast and badly defined, and designed, experiment by me; therefore, the beta is uncontrolled, which is a very bad way to put together a statistical test experiment but hey, I'm retired and not being paid to do this anymore either <G>)
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#256194 - 07/12/14 12:59 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: critter]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4654
Loc: Florida
"Or if you are recording backing tracks for use on gigs, you could model your PA speakers actual frequency response, then model various sized rooms."



I have found that I get much better results by actually doing final mix EQ tweaks through the mixer/amp/PA speakers. With my large rig, that usually requires pulling out some low-mids.


The frequency response difference between phones, near fields and PA enclosures is huge, and when you factor in the coloring of the board and amp, it's virtually impossible to simulate that combination.


While it's true that a well-mixed song should sound good on most systems, PA's are another matter.
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#256195 - 07/12/14 01:11 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: Larry Kehl]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10963
Loc: Hamlin NY
Larry, your fun experiment brought back some fond memories! I few years ago we had two singers who would argue day and night about vocal reverb, one said spring reverb was the best and the other said digital reverb was the best. They both said that they could tell the difference! Each had their reverb units with them.

So we, the other members in the band, made them leave the room. We told them we would take one mic and one time plug it into a both reverbs. They left and I plugged the mic into the digital reverb, note the PA settings were identical for both tests. They both sang accapella, then left the room. I did nothing. They came back, sang again and proceeded to argue with was better. Of course one took the first variation and the other the second!

Of course they were mad at me and the band broke up a short while later.
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The only exercise I did this month was run out of money!

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#256237 - 07/13/14 12:47 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: critter]
critter Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 628
Loc: Wisconsin
Too end this thread, let me just see what you all are using and let's go from there. If I don't have to I don't want to spend over $500.00 a pair. My Sweetwater rep says I should go for the Focal Alpha 50 and or the Yamaha MSP 7, both with the front bass ports which I want, the Yamahas are $399.00 each and the Focal Alpha 50 are $299.00 each. To me it's a lot of money. The Presonus Eris series, sound ok, but reviews with failing monitors, also the Behringer Truth 3030a sounds good but then the reviews with failing monitors. Let's here what you guys have and the good and the bad of the monitors.........Thanks
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#256274 - 07/13/14 10:58 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: Pat Marr]
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5659
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
When you finally learn how to mix properly, the mixes you produce will sound reasonably good on every system they are played on. It's the amateurs who mix to their "studio" speakers and then play it in a car and are disappointed by the unbalanced mix.

Do you seriously think the big mixing studios have the time to model every single environment where a song might be played? Absolutely not. They know what they are doing and they use one set of monitors consistently. Some of them may take the time to "check the mix" (probably spot checking) on a mono rig. I'm sure some do, but most of them know what they're doing and don't need to, or have the time, to check their work on a dozen different speakers or environments.


but most of the people on this forum aren't big-time full-time recording engineers who have the time or experience to attain that mastery. Forum discussion, by its very nature, is about exchanging ideas, techniques and product information to help one another improve.


Yep.... most here are "Amateurs". That term is often used in a derogatory manner by those who consider themselves to be "professionals". However, it comes from the root word Amore (in one language or another)...it means LOVE. Amateurs do what they do because of the LOVE of what they do.... in our case... that love is MUSIC.

Yeah we don't do it for a profession, or fame or money..... we do it because we love doing it.

That reason, however, isn't an excuse to be mediocre in our efforts. We should always strive to be the best we can be, learning and improving constantly. While we probably will not attain the skill set of the masters of the mixing world and set at the desk mixing a Streisand, Adele or Dion, we can, nonetheless, attain the level where we are producing top quality music mixes that sound good and work well across many listening environments.
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#257758 - 07/28/14 02:13 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: critter]
critter Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 628
Loc: Wisconsin
So in the end I got the KRK VXT6 monitors, and I can say holy crap what was I mixing, what a difference it makes. I didn't want to go this high end but I did get a deal thru Sweetwater, the monitors go for $449.99 each and I got the pair for $718.00, can't beat that. Sweetwater always does me right. All my songs are way out of where they should be. Lesson here, never use home type speakers as I did. Again I can't believe the difference...................
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Critter

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#257956 - 07/30/14 11:19 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: chulaivet1966]
Budmanvet Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/05/14
Posts: 31
Loc: Northern Virginia
Newbie here of about 3 weeks. I have a Korg SV 1. Use a Roland amp speaker no mixer. Just bought a JBL LSR 305 5" as a practice amp. I would like to run the audio from my Dell Inspiron 1464 where BIAB lives to these speakers. In the BIAB MIDI/Audio Drivers setup window I currently have no MIDI input driver chosen. MIDI output is set to Microsoft GS wavetable Synth. Synthesizer/Sound Card is set to General MIDI instrument Misc. I have have not altered any settings....all are factory default/ recommended.
Thanks,
Bud

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#260432 - 08/24/14 08:56 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: critter]
LeoVB Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4
i use a pair of 30 year old studiosonics *they were created by PHILIPS but a diffrend brand for east european countrys. i bought them off a friend for 100 euros a couple of years ago and have been using them sinds. i only found one other pair on ebay a year ago for 300 dollars from a studio in usa. you dont need verry expensive speakers , but dont go for the cheepest to , use a good nearfield speaker and most importend realy get to know your speakers as if you get to know a real friend. listen to them a lot with a lot of differend music styles.... best way to get to know your studio monitors ,


Edited by LeoVB (08/24/14 08:57 AM)

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#260461 - 08/24/14 04:14 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Studio Monitors [Re: critter]
Don Gaynor Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 7829
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I may be late to this dance but, upon Mac's recommendation, I bought a pair of Barry MS-40 Near-Field Monitors and I haven't looked back. In my room (16' x 16'), 40W is paint/wallpaper pealing power.

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PG Music News
Thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 - Mac Power Users Discussion

David Sparks and Katie Floyd discuss a variety of topics in their recent episide of Mac Power Users: https://www.relay.fm/mpu/432 - listen all the way through (and laugh along with them - it was a very entertaining episode!), or jump to 1:37:40 where David shares his thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac!

Thank you David and Katie!

Polish New Features Video for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

Our Polish Distributor, Sound Station, has finished their Band-in-a-Box 2018 New Features summary video (in Polish!) - click here to watch.

We hope all our Polish Band-in-a-Box users find this video helpful - thank you Sound Station!

YouTube Find - Love it (with Band-in-a-Box 2018)

YouTube channel EmtpyHallToones uploaded a video of their guitar performance using Band-in-a-Box backing tracks!

Click here to watch.

Get to Know the 202 NEW RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box® 2018!

We released 202 NEW RealTracks with Band-in-a-Box® 2018! Learn more about these new RealTracks when you watch our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2018 - 202 NEW RealTracks.

These new RealTracks (in Sets 278-300) are included in every Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade - the Mac packages are on sale until June 30th!

Learn even more about the new RealTracks and listen to demos here.

Vocal "Oohs" and "Aahs" RealTracks Tutorial Video for Mac

With Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac®, we've introduced Vocal "Oohs" and "Aahs" RealTracks. This video shows you the different ways you can use these versatile new RealTracks.

Video link: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=zkO-AtAPv4g

You can also listen to demos of RealTracks Set 278: Shiny Vocal Oohs & Aahs here.

This RealTracks Set is available for just $29, and is also included in RealPAK 14: Country, and the Band-in-a-Box® UltraPAK, Audiophile, or 2018 PlusPAK Upgrade.

Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - Special Pricing Until June 30th!

With the recent Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac release, we also released Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac packages during our release special (which ends June 30th!).
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac release special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! Learn more.

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=fzkX6jO_hW4

Band-in-a-Box® Version 2018 is a HIT!

Since the release Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac, we've received some great feedback!

"The added Piano Roll Window is... WONDERFUL!"
"Adding the Piano Roll Window is a BIG DEAL - thanks PG Music!"
"This significantly changes how I will use Band-in-a-Box in the future."
"And yet again you manage to come up with styles and instruments that we absolutely must have!"
"Great to have the Oohs and Ahhs RealTracks!"
"The RealTracks are worth their weight in gold to me. They really are an amazing invention for music creators."
"Just tonight popped together a quick video using one of the new video styles. Must say the whole process worked without a hitch so this really does look like a great new feature. And what a great teaching aid! "
"Such a comprehensive source for music making!"
"THIS IS EXCITING!"
"The new Audio Chord Wizard is my favorite new feature!"
"This should be great for creating backing tracks for covers."
"Oh wow. This has got to be the coolest enhancement in Band-in-a-Box 2018. This is so-o-o powerful. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!"
"A brilliant piece of software!"
"What a release!!!"
"THEY DO NO PAY ME BUT if you don't own this you are crazy."
"Been using Band in a Box for years!! Great product for composing. I absolutely love the background vocals in Band-in-a-Box 2018."
"My compliments to the PG Music team who have once again have delivered an incredible collection of new styles and RealTracks to Band-in-a-Box this year!"
"There is still so much to explore and work with!"
"Love the new Video RealTracks!"
"The mixer included into the StylePicker is a great addition."
"Recent retirement and the 2018 version of BIAB is a perfect combination!!"
"The XTRA Styles are fantastic... any future idle music-related minutes I may have had are now totally gone... gonna find that perfect background rhythm on just about every one of my favorites!!!"
"I bought this Band-in-a-Box 2018 and I love it , it is amazing to work with!!!!!"
"...it's educational utility and the potential is awesome!!!"
"I must say, the new harmony options in particular have me chomping at the bit!"
"This will give my students a great overview of what's going on in an arrangement with the different instruments.!!!"
"A musician must have."
"Lovin' the new RealTracks!!!"
"This is amazing software!"
"Thank you for a wonderful tool for both musicians and singers - I can never say enough about this amazingly versatile product!"

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