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#257785 - 07/28/14 08:46 AM [Off-Topic] What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ?
Joe V Offline
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Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1020
Loc: NYC
Has anyone found a cost-effective, improved tracking replacement to the GI-20 ? Thanks.

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#257789 - 07/28/14 10:02 AM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: Joe V]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11340
Loc: Hamlin NY
I have been looking at the Fishman triple play: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TriplePlayPU/

From what I have read it is very good.
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My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

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#257801 - 07/28/14 11:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: MarioD]
Joe V Offline
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Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1020
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: MarioD
I have been looking at the Fishman triple play: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TriplePlayPU/

From what I have read it is very good.


Amazing how hard it is to keep up with this stuff - that's completely new idea to me. Thanks for suggesting it - it's nice to know what new things are out there.

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#257928 - 07/29/14 07:10 PM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: Joe V]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
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Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
I watched the demo by the Fishman guy on the Sweetwater site. The guy is obviously very talented. However, I can't seem to get away from the fact that it still sounds mostly like guitar voicing and phrasing of synths and it just sounds unnatural to my ear. The technology seems pretty incredible, but it's my opinion that a mid-level keyboard player would make those sound much more fluid than the demonstration. Perhaps it's just poor selection of synth sounds for the demo, I don't know.

Joe, do you find that you can't accomplish midi data entry successfully with a keyboard?

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#257931 - 07/29/14 08:19 PM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: rockstar_not]
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2114
Loc: New Mexico
I bought the TriplePlay a few months ago - it is VERY good! Only two issues I have with it:

1) I will never get use to the need for a PC between me and all my HW synths (I use more HW than SW synths), and

2) my anal retentive mindset that forced me to buy extra (and it does add up) mounting HW to outfit almost every single non-GK equipped guitar with mounts so I can move the Fishman PUP and transmitter to any guitar on a whim.

It tracks well - but not any better (and not any worse) than my GK to MIDI equipment solutions.

Price wise you can get it for around $330 (w/no S&H - you can do your own Google).

I am in process of setting up multiple guitars (Strats, ES-335, SG, LP's, Joe Pass, and a few others) but it works on/with all of them nicely and of course I did not expect any issues either.

Only "complaint" (so far) I really wish they would have made the cabling between PUP and TX (transmitter) longer by about 1 to 1.5 inches. Or better yet used a quick disconnect style connector (hard but not impossible to build) between them THEN you could buy and permanently mount PUPS to the guitars only move the TX around!

Note, be careful do not lose the USB RX (receiver) that's alone is a $70 replacement item.


Rockstar_not

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at but , and I've been playing MIDI guitar(s) since '89,

MIDI guitar can only "phrase" and play like another instrument as well as the particular guitar player can imitate and think like a keyboard player, horn player, bow player, reed player, stick & twig user,….

Ditto a keyboard player (wind player, stick & twig user, …) can seldom phrase and make a guitar patch sound like a guitar player, horn player, etc.

Larry


Edited by Larry Kehl (07/29/14 08:22 PM)
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#257934 - 07/29/14 09:45 PM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: Larry Kehl]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7447
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl


Rockstar_not

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at but , and I've been playing MIDI guitar(s) since '89,

MIDI guitar can only "phrase" and play like another instrument as well as the particular guitar player can imitate and think like a keyboard player, horn player, bow player, reed player, stick & twig user,….

Ditto a keyboard player (wind player, stick & twig user, …) can seldom phrase and make a guitar patch sound like a guitar player, horn player, etc.

Larry


Larry, I think you nailed it. I don't disagree with you. It's a fairly rare thing to hear a keyboard player properly emulate a sax with a sax patch, etc., without a certain amount of 'weirdness' to the ending sound. However, I think that I've heard more keys patches take advantage of some of the additional controls on keyboards to help the emulation a little farther along with solo instruments. I haven't heard decent midi triggered guitar until about a year ago - there's a product line from Amplesound which to my ear sounds quite good in a mix, triggered via proper phrasing on keys.

But the solo instruments that I've heard triggered from midi guitar to my ear have just slightly less realism - I don't know if it's the fact that there's no damper pedal to sustain notes selectively or what, but it just sounds slightly more unrealistic to my ear.

I could be all wrong about this; I don't feel that I've done a good job explaining myself about what I notice with midi guitar triggered sounds.

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#257935 - 07/29/14 10:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: rockstar_not]
GDaddy Offline
Expert

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
I still use my Roland GR303 with a GM-70, and I've produced some great hardware based midi induced sounds!

Thank you Pat Metheny, for showing us "the way", back in the 80's...along wth the synth/sampler advancements!!
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Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.


Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3

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#257949 - 07/30/14 09:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: rockstar_not]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11340
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: rockstar_not
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl


Rockstar_not

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at but , and I've been playing MIDI guitar(s) since '89,

MIDI guitar can only "phrase" and play like another instrument as well as the particular guitar player can imitate and think like a keyboard player, horn player, bow player, reed player, stick & twig user,….

Ditto a keyboard player (wind player, stick & twig user, …) can seldom phrase and make a guitar patch sound like a guitar player, horn player, etc.

Larry


Larry, I think you nailed it. I don't disagree with you. It's a fairly rare thing to hear a keyboard player properly emulate a sax with a sax patch, etc., without a certain amount of 'weirdness' to the ending sound. However, I think that I've heard more keys patches take advantage of some of the additional controls on keyboards to help the emulation a little farther along with solo instruments. I haven't heard decent midi triggered guitar until about a year ago - there's a product line from Amplesound which to my ear sounds quite good in a mix, triggered via proper phrasing on keys.

But the solo instruments that I've heard triggered from midi guitar to my ear have just slightly less realism - I don't know if it's the fact that there's no damper pedal to sustain notes selectively or what, but it just sounds slightly more unrealistic to my ear.

I could be all wrong about this; I don't feel that I've done a good job explaining myself about what I notice with midi guitar triggered sounds.


Rockstar_not, YOU just hit the nail right on the head. If a MIDI guitarist does not learn MIDI CCs their leads will be extremely static, i.e. not very realistic. That is the same with any MIDI controller. This is what led me to buy a wind controller. I can input a more realistic horn track much faster with it than I can with my MIDI guitar controller.

If a guitarist, or any instrumentalist, thinks they can just pick up a MIDI controller and play it like their main instrument is in for a big shock. They must learn about and implement CCs to obtain the most realistic emulation.

If you are a guitarist and thinking about a guitar MIDI controller think about the additional time you will need to learn the above and also to think about purchasing a MIDI control foot pedal. You will get a more realistic emulation if you implement CCs while you are playing via a MIDI control foot pedal that to add them later, at least in my experience. This is one BIG advantage keyboard players have over guitarists.

Ps - IMHO this is why RealTracks and RealDrums are a huge success. Everything is done for you when compared with MIDI tracks. You can get excellent MIDI tracks but it takes a lot of work. Those of us who have been around MIDI for a long time can get things done fairly rapidly but with RTs everything is there and it sounds excellennt.
_________________________
My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#257953 - 07/30/14 10:24 AM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: MarioD]
Larry Kehl Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2114
Loc: New Mexico
Fully concur re: CC controllers (yes, my bad - redundant use of word "control") even when playing keyboards that have ribbon controllers, mod wheels, etc. I have/use multiple CC pedals which feed all MIDI synths, via MIDI merge in my MIDI patch bays, including my MIDI guitar signal and even PC MIDI in.



But, the best CC ever invented for a guitar player was ......




(wait for it)




............

















the VOLUME control (or a volume pedal if you can't tweak well with pinky)


Larry
_________________________
Win7&10Pro64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBsHDD,RX480 8GB,Scarlett 18i8,MIDI4x4,Montage7Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7,XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,FL20, SO3,MC8,AD2,ST3,Kontakt5,Amptube4,etc.. but really I'm a guitar player AXE FX III

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