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#130768 - 10/09/11 02:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Alberto Garay]
Alberto Garay Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Spain
Quote:



...you bought BiaB too soon...






...no, my friend.

What I really think is that I bought it too late

I'm enjoying these first days as a kid...

I only complain for this "ununderstable" limit, the rest is wonderful...

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#130769 - 10/09/11 05:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Alberto Garay]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 774
Loc: Spain
I partially agree with you. The 255 limit shouldn't be on any modern program, but unfortunately it's not the only aspect of BIAB that show that the core program hasn't changed on many, many years. Long Filenames, a standard feature since the introduction of Windows95 16 years ago, is only self-implemented on BIAB (*,sty files have a 8-character limit, for example), as is drag&drop, another standard feature from Windows95 that it's not supported on BIAB (try to configure, for example, the Stylepicker Window to show the styles the way you like and you'll know what I mean). The same problem affects to the program's interface (btw, I'm not refereing to the way the program looks, but to its ease of usability): over the years the programmers added a lot of new features, but since the program's core hasn't change very much, and the interface was never completely redesigned, the result is a bloated interface that show many inconsistences, like, for example, the different way that the old "Soloist" feature (only availiable on the Soloist track) and the new "Soloist Realtracks" (availiable on any track, but conceptually identical to the first one) works.

That said, I keep buying, if I can afford it, all program updates and new Realtracks. Why? Because, simply said, you're not going to find any other program designed to create backing tracks that can offer the incredible quality, versatility and realism that BIAB is known for. Realtracks, introduced with BIAB 2008, were a real major step on the evoution on the program, and from then I like to think on BIAB as a great collection of great musicians always ready to play any chord progression you write to them. The greatness of the program resides on its incredible rich (and growing) musical database, and the basic concept of the program (just write the chords and obtain and instant professional backing track in the style you choose) is still great.

So, even with its (sometimes irritating) faults, the program is a pleasure for musicians, and I continue to buying and recommend it. My advice: learn it, use it and enjoy it, while you wait for a greater, easier, more modern version that would produce the same incredible results with much less effort and frustration.

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#130770 - 10/09/11 09:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Noel96]
Muzic Trax Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4906
Loc: California
Alberto,

Most synthesizers/arrangers stop at 255 bar limit as well. With Biab, 255 bars is more then enough cause you can set it to play back those 255 bars many times over.

I have never reached near 255 bars for any song I have done within Biab. Maybe at a tempo of 300 it will go through them fast, but you can set the number of chorus' and playback as well.

Trax

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#130771 - 10/10/11 09:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Muzic Trax]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Be careful. You can find over 10,000 band in a box songs hidden on the internet. Once you have them you wonder what if I take this song, kill the melody, change it from a folk style to Gypsy Jazz, and then play along. Then you change it again, they you try another song, and next thing you know it's late and you go to bed and wake up and do it again and again.

Far better to forget the software and not think about the girl from ipapa-wherever, and how it might sound with a bass intro, then a snare drum for 3 bars with the bass and then a brass..but at a slower tempo and you want a solo and band in a box can do all that but you will probably become addicted and you end up spending days messing around, picking up instruments, printing leadsheets for horns...NO! Just return it now. Take your fingers off the keyboard.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#130772 - 10/11/11 11:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Muzic Trax]
Alberto Garay Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Spain
Quote:

Alberto,

Most synthesizers/arrangers stop at 255 bar limit as well. With Biab, 255 bars is more then enough cause you can set it to play back those 255 bars many times over.

I have never reached near 255 bars for any song I have done within Biab. Maybe at a tempo of 300 it will go through them fast, but you can set the number of chorus' and playback as well.

Trax




Hi Trax,

I also worked many years with hard-coded sequencers in my syths (Yamahas, mostly), and had a lot of fun, but lots of wasted hours making things which take just one clic in any modern DAW.

I think being critical with yourself is not bad never.

I think Cerio is more honest in is post-reply.

He's just saying what many of us think: BIAB is near heaven, but he's out, just by details.... in fact many details, and many of them difficult to understand (from a "software-developing" point of view).

Musically speaking it's great.... but, it's a shame... it's almost there....


Edited by Alberto Garay (10/11/11 11:49 PM)

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#130773 - 10/11/11 11:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Muzic Trax]
Alberto Garay Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Spain
Quote:


I have never reached near 255 bars for any song I have done within Biab.
Trax




I reached it the day one.

Maybe it's me, but I really cannot get used to that repetition system....

In fact BG-help topics (within BIAB) suggest to make your songs as a whole, not using repetitions at all.

I miss a lot a good marker system, and repetitions referred to them.

...one more for my wish-list

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#130774 - 10/12/11 12:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Alberto Garay]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 774
Loc: Spain
Quote:


I miss a lot a good marker system, and repetitions referred to them.

...one more for my wish-list




Sometime ago I made a "demo" of what should be, IMHO, a must-have feature of the program:



Working with structures without a proper marker system built-in BIAB is in some cases really annoying.

PS: The request was already posted here

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#130775 - 10/12/11 08:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Cerio]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I made a similar post. Have intro, outro, and Parts A - Z.

Each part starts and stops at the predetermined point.

You then have the ability to write the final product as

Intro A B A A B C Outro

Now that would be cool.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#130776 - 10/12/11 09:03 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: John Conley]
Alberto Garay Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Spain
That's it !!

That would be the 10 for BiaB.

1) No bar limits.
2) Markers.
3) Easy song structure construction via text files o direct text editing within BiaB.
Using text files would allow to work on structures without the use to have BiaB available, and after that cutting and pasting or opening a text file.... mmm, great.

These are the "urgent" issues IMHO.

Added to these (I can live with that by the way)

1) Re-design of the user interface making it less sophisticated: less icons, smarter functionallity grouping, etc...)

2) Ease the use of the piano-roll and allow patterns to be edited with it.

=============

Around that it would be great that PG would leader a repository (or the links) to a huge musical database made by users and professionals including all type of styles (classical, hardcore, dance, house, D'n'B, etc...), and all type of BiaB elements: patterns, styles, songs (if copyrights permit...)

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#130777 - 10/12/11 09:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Alberto Garay]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18600
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Alberto, I can not get used to the way BiaB wants songs structured either. Yesterday I extended a song in RB, adding a new section that started on the 'B' pattern and ended on A before going back into a verse. It worked really well in RB, but would have been a pain in BiaB.

I'm mentioning this because you (like me) *may* be one of the people that finds things much easier in RB. You can still generate like in BiaB (both MIDI and realtracks) but it removes some of the restrictions you dislike and adds some other benefits that really make it much better in my opinion. Just a different way to work.
Not as fast, but more control.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#130778 - 10/12/11 11:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: rharv]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13418
>>> 1) Re-design of the user interface making it less sophisticated: less icons, smarter functionallity grouping, etc...)


Have you tried the existing configuration options? For example, you can customize the icons on the toolbar to show/hide icons (click arrow key at right of toolbar). In addition, they are floatable/dockable.

Also, you can change toolbar size/text and hide piano window, Prefs-Display
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#130779 - 10/12/11 10:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: rharv]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 774
Loc: Spain
Quote:

You can still generate like in BiaB (both MIDI and realtracks) but it removes some of the restrictions you dislike and adds some other benefits that really make it much better in my opinion. Just a different way to work.




Yes, but the point is that Realband still lacks a lot of BIAB features that are very useful when working with songs, specially when working in the chord view: transposing chords, preview chords, Jazzup/down chords, Search/replace chords, reduce/expand duration of chords...

In addition, the program can't export songs (chord progressions with bar changes, style changes, etc.) back to BIAB and, at least in my experience, is considerably slower and more unstable than BIAB.

For these reasons, although theoretically it would be easier using RB when working with song structures, I've finished working exclusively with BIAB, a much more powerful program IMHO.

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#130780 - 10/13/11 12:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Cerio]
jhg Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 60
Loc: idaho, u.s.a
I hit the 255 bar limit at 128 bars in my song when I tried using Realtracks in double time. I had to replace them with less favorable substitutes that used normal time to get them to last the whole song. I could cut and paste sections in Realband, but I want to go directly from Band in a Box to Sonar, starting with a complete song.

---- Jim Green

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#259118 - 08/10/14 11:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Alberto Garay]
edwardjc Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/20/14
Posts: 22
Hi All,

I'm a BIAB 2014 Mac user with the Everything Pak which I've had for about a month. This is my first version of BIAB.

Just checking to see if this 255-bar limit is still there in the 2014 version. Is there an adjustment to be made to expand the number of bars, and if not now, is this something that can be incorporated in future versions of BIAB?

I encountered the limit for the first time today when programming a RealTracks accompaniment for "Piano Man" which is a fast waltz and over 300 bars long, running about 5 1/2 minutes. Although the song seems relatively straightforward, because of the lack of uniformity to the form of the song, it's impossible to use the chorus repetition feature as an approach in this case.

Because I'm on a Mac I'm not able to install RealBand. It would have been convenient not to have to create a song in two parts and complete it in a separate program - e.g. Logic - because all I'm looking to do is create a simple accompaniment track, which BIAB would be able to do a magnificent job of on its own if not for this imposed bar limit.

Looking forward to any updates on this issue from fellow BIAB users...

Thanks!


Edited by edwardjc (08/10/14 11:02 PM)

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#259136 - 08/11/14 08:23 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Cannot believe it... 255 bar limit per song????? [Re: Muzic Trax]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4224
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Muzic Trax
Alberto,

<...snip...>

I have never reached near 255 bars for any song I have done within Biab. Maybe at a tempo of 300 it will go through them fast, but you can set the number of chorus' and playback as well.

Trax


I write fake disks for BiaB, based on popular off-the-shelf music books, and I've hit that 255 brick wall limit dozens of times.

I'd love to do a disk that corresponds to the Sher "Latin Real Book" but unfortunately too many songs in that book need more than 255 measures to do.

Also, some songs need more than 4 chords per measure, or a chord both on the beat and the upbeat before it. To solve this problem I invented EXPANDED styles. They turn two BiaB cells into one bar of music, thus allowing up to 8 chords per measure. The problem with that is that it cuts the 255 measure limit to 127.5 measures.

Personally, I'd love to see the 255 limit doubled.

Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely love BiaB, and it has steadily improved since I discovered it in the Atari/ST, IBM DOS5, Mac OS6 days. I hope to see more improvements in the basic structure in the future, and I would be delighted if expanding the 255 measure limit was one of them.

Insights and incites by Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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PG Music News
Feedback - The Way I Use Band-in-a-Box and How It Changed My Music Career

Thank you to forum user Torrey Bliss for their amazing feedback, The way I use Band In A Box and how it changed my music career!

"I wanted to put up a post about how I got started using Band In A Box in order to help someone who is just getting started using the program to be be able to see the potential uses of BIAB for a musician and explain my procedure when composing a song.

I began using BIAB about 10 years ago after seeing some things online about the program and thought it might work for me. I had just accepted a staff position as a worship leader at a medium size church (250-300 people) and had been put in charge of all music. The problem I immediately encountered was that there were no available musicians to help me. This is where BIAB saved the day. I was able to quickly construct many professional sounding songs that I would be able to use in the services and play my guitar or keyboards along with and provide an excellent set of music for our church to sing along with..."

Read through the entire post to learn Torrey's procedure, and add your own feedback!
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=452394

Song Titles Browser Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

In 2016, we added the Song Title Browser feature to the StylePicker within Band-in-a-Box, which filters the styles listed using your criteria: familiar song title, artist name, genre type.... with Version 2018 we made it even better!

We've added 2,000 new song titles, the option to filter the lists, added subgenres, and more! Visit http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm to see all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows.

YouTube Find - Triste - Hammond Organ + Band-in-a-Box®

Our latest search of "Band-in-a-Box" on YouTube has delivered some great videos, including this one by YouTube user Keith Horton!

YouTube Video - Triste - Hammond Organ + Band In A Box

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Features a Cleaned-up BB Folder

If you've used previous versions of Band-in-a-Box®, you may have noticed a lot of different files and folders within the "BB" folder for the program - after years and years of development there are up to 10,000 files for an UltraPAK! With Version 2018, we've cleaned it up - but you're not losing anything - the cleanup normally happens automatically during installation, but you can run it manually if you'd like - just select the main menu Help | Utilities | Run Cleanup routine...

Review all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

Introducing... RealTracks Artist Kirk "Jelly Roll" Johnson

One of our just-released RealTracks Sets features the award winning harmonica player Kirk "Jelly Roll" Johnson!
RealTracks Set 283: Jelly-Roll Country Harmonica

Add his harmonica playing to your Band-in-a-Box song for that soulful feel that cannot be matched!

Learn more about "Jelly Roll" Johnson and listen to demos of his RealTracks when you visit his RealTracks Artist Bio page.

Beginners Forum - Exporting from Band-in-a-Box® to a .MID File

Our Forum is amazing - an online community full of helpful program users, BETA testers, endorsers, and staff!

We include a Beginners Forum, which is a great place for Band-in-a-Box beginners to visit for discussions & resources!

This week included a very active post, Exporting from Band-in-a-Box to a .MID file. Visit this post to learn more about exporting RealTracks as .MID files, and see our friendly forum users at work!

Introducing... RealTracks Artist Colin Linden!

Have you heard the newest Guitar RealTracks from Colin Linden? You can find his RealTracks with:
RealTracks Set 279: Americana: Slow Groovin' 12-8 & 16ths
RealTracks Set 280: Americana: Gritty Blues & Rockabilly Swing
RealTracks Set 287: Pop Songwriter: Acoustic Guitar
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Learn more about Colin and listen to demos of his RealTracks when you visit his RealTracks Artist Bio.

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