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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 221
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 221 |
All,
I need a new DAW for my music studio, and I wonder which processor should I look for.
Since I don't have a big budget, I tend to get an Amd one, for example an A8/9/10; however I read that an Intel I7 would perform better.
Basically I need that BiaB run fast by generating the (Realtracks) Audio tracks. I would also like to record midi or audio with no noticeable latency. The same for using VST instruments.
What are the bottlenecks of a DAW ? Does the the processor play the most important role ?
I have a keyboard (Fantom G8) with an integrated audio card. It can be connected via USB to a DAW, which will 'see' it as an internal audio card.
Could this avoid the risk of latency by recording ?
If i go for an Solid State Disk (SSD) as the main Hard-disk, do I get a speed boost by generating the audio tracks in Biab ?
To summarize: how should I build up the DAW in order to avoid latency and maximize the performances in the ?
Thanks for your attention,
Sergio
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2003
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I have an Intel i7 on my music computer and it is great. I know that a computer builder musician friend built his own AMD music computer a couple of years ago and didn't like it. He replaced it with an Intel CPU and MB. But I really don't know what that problem was or if any problems still exist with AMDs.
I would get a 64 bit machine. BiaB will run on it but with a 3.5 gig ram limit; note that is the limit of a 32-bit program. A 64-bit machine and program can use a lot more ram. That may not be a problem now but if you want to use the best sounding VSTis you will have to use a 64-bit machine and DAW as they use a lot more ram.
As for a DAW it sounds like you do not have a favorite one. My suggestion is to use RealBand (RB). RB is included with BiaB and is a very capable DAW. It is 32-bit program so you could possibly run into the ram limit at a later date if you use those great sounding VSTi. Many here use RB and many use other DAWs so if you want another DAW and not RB ask for recommendations.
So my suggestions are:
1-get a 64-bit machine that is 8 or 16 gig ram expandable with the fastest CPU and the most ram that you can afford
2- If you are only going to get one HD get a 500 GB or larger HD that runs are 7200 RPM; you said you have budget constraints and this is the least expensive way. If going for two HDs then a SSD is ok for the C:/ drive programs and a 7200 RPM D:/ drive for RTs, VSTis, data etc.
3-learn RB
4-if possible keep you music computer off line. DAWs run the best when nothing else like anti-virus stuff running in the background.
I hope this helps.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,324
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I built a DAW quite a few years back.
I based it on the I5 chip. It's a simple 4GB XP pro(32) based machine that's not internet connected.
If I was building now, it would be 64bit and running the best quad processor I could afford. 8GB minimum.... more is better. Two 1TB drives minimum. External 1TB backup drive.
Yes, keep it off the internet if it's a dedicated DAW. My machine has no AV or firewall software and it runs as fast today as it did the day I first fired it up.
Build it yourself and you get a squeaky clean machine with no crapware preinstalled on the HDD.
Building one is not that difficult. If I did it.....
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Mario made some great points.
In the past what have you used? If you've used a daw in the past you may feel most comfortable staying within the same daw family. For instance if you've used Cubase, GarageBand, MultiTrack Studio or another daw you may want to stay with products made by the same company.
Another question is do you want to use a Microsoft or Apple operating system?
While thinking about what hardware and operating system you want I would visit the web sites of daws I'm interested in, download whatever demo software is available, look at screenshots, lurk on the daw forums and look through the pdf manuals. How intuitive is it to do things you will be doing all the time like select a section, zoom-in, zoom-out, copy, cut, trim, delete, move, etc. Does it work with midi, audio, loops? What effects are built-in? How difficult is it to use third party soft synths or effects? In short, does the software work the way YOU think or will you always be fighting the software?
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
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I have an Intel i7 on my music computer and it is great. I know that a computer builder musician friend built his own AMD music computer a couple of years ago and didn't like it. He replaced it with an Intel CPU and MB. But I really don't know what that problem was or if any problems still exist with AMDs.
I would get a 64 bit machine. BiaB will run on it but with a 3.5 gig ram limit; note that is the limit of a 32-bit program. A 64-bit machine and program can use a lot more ram. That may not be a problem now but if you want to use the best sounding VSTis you will have to use a 64-bit machine and DAW as they use a lot more ram.
As for a DAW it sounds like you do not have a favorite one. My suggestion is to use RealBand (RB). RB is included with BiaB and is a very capable DAW. It is 32-bit program so you could possibly run into the ram limit at a later date if you use those great sounding VSTi. Many here use RB and many use other DAWs so if you want another DAW and not RB ask for recommendations.
So my suggestions are:
1-get a 64-bit machine that is 8 or 16 gig ram expandable with the fastest CPU and the most ram that you can afford
2- If you are only going to get one HD get a 500 GB or larger HD that runs are 7200 RPM; you said you have budget constraints and this is the least expensive way. If going for two HDs then a SSD is ok for the C:/ drive programs and a 7200 RPM D:/ drive for RTs, VSTis, data etc.
3-learn RB
4-if possible keep you music computer off line. DAWs run the best when nothing else like anti-virus stuff running in the background.
I hope this helps.
What he said.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492 |
Yes Mario made some good points.
For the motherboard, mine has a capacity of up to 32GB and it is already 3 years old. Often more RAM on a 64bit machine is better than the next faster processor. But a lot of software still does not make use of more RAM, so you can add more RAMs later. The software I have seldom gets to be constraint by the only 8 GB I have now.
Since HDDs are no more really expensive I'd get two 1TB or even 2TB internal drives. Prepare to get a large SSD, they are still expensive, you can put one in later. (Samsung has the 850 PRO 1TB with 10 years of warranty. Still too expensive if you're on a tight budget, but worth to be on your watchlist.) The SSD has another advantage. I uses less energy for its operation: 1. memory blocks need less energy than a spinning disk; 2. SSDs don't produce as much heat, that is less fan operation; 3. both of above features are less noisy. The next positive side effect that less air is sucked through your DAW and at the same time less dust to cover important parts.
For backup purposes I have an external 4TB HDD that will be soon replaced by another, because it is full. I could reuse it, but I choose not to in the next two years.
All depends on your wishes to expand and extend later. You always can start low.
Last edited by GHinCH; 10/02/14 08:25 AM.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,632
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,632 |
What are the bottlenecks of a DAW ? Does the the processor play the most important role ? In my experience, the CPU is not the bottleneck (although it IS important!). Normally it is the drive or RAM (lack of RAM actually causes the drive to work harder, so the drive would be the problem but RAM could be a cause). You didn't mention what you have now so it is hard to say how much difference you will notice with a given upgrade. As for system components; drives are cheap now and a regular 3.5 SATA hard drive should perform fine. SSD is obviously faster, but you get less space for the $$ so it's a personal trade off. I'd rather have two SATA's than one SSD, but that's just me. Know that I do have SSD systems and know how they perform compared to SATA. I'll explain why I'd rather have two drives down below. DDR3 is cheap now so I'd get a system that uses that and load up with as much a reasonable. In my simple mind I think of it like this; The CPU does things super fast. It is often waiting for something to tell it what to do. RAM is where the data being worked on by the CPU is held. If it needs more room, it creates a 'swap file' on the hard drive and then (guess who) the CPU has to step in and tell the system which data to shove on the hard drive temporarily and which to keep and load in .. then it can go back to work doing what it was doing. Both CPU and RAM are way faster than the hard drive, so every time the hard drive is used the other parts are often just waiting more than working. The best solution I know of for this dilemna is to have two hard drives working at the same time! The CPU has plenty of time (cycles) to control both, and the data stream can be doubled at the weak point. In RB efficient use of this system uses one drive to read the seq file from, and another to write data to, including: a. incoming audio data being recorded b. the temp generated realtrack c. temp buffer adjustments needed So while the system reads from one drive it writes to another. Picture a record player that also records. If the needle had to play this section .. then jump over to a blank space to write this section (incoming data) .. then jump back and try to keep playing .. This is what a single drive system is doing when in a DAW situation. Th drive being used to write to is called the Temp Audio Directory and many DAWs give this option to select a separate drive, as does RB. Tip for the day 
Last edited by rharv; 10/02/14 04:36 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739 |
I have an Intel i7 on my music computer and it is great. I know that a computer builder musician friend built his own AMD music computer a couple of years ago and didn't like it. He replaced it with an Intel CPU and MB. But I really don't know what that problem was or if any problems still exist with AMDs.
I would get a 64 bit machine. BiaB will run on it but with a 3.5 gig ram limit; note that is the limit of a 32-bit program. A 64-bit machine and program can use a lot more ram. That may not be a problem now but if you want to use the best sounding VSTis you will have to use a 64-bit machine and DAW as they use a lot more ram.
As for a DAW it sounds like you do not have a favorite one. My suggestion is to use RealBand (RB). RB is included with BiaB and is a very capable DAW. It is 32-bit program so you could possibly run into the ram limit at a later date if you use those great sounding VSTi. Many here use RB and many use other DAWs so if you want another DAW and not RB ask for recommendations.
So my suggestions are:
1-get a 64-bit machine that is 8 or 16 gig ram expandable with the fastest CPU and the most ram that you can afford
2- If you are only going to get one HD get a 500 GB or larger HD that runs are 7200 RPM; you said you have budget constraints and this is the least expensive way. If going for two HDs then a SSD is ok for the C:/ drive programs and a 7200 RPM D:/ drive for RTs, VSTis, data etc.
3-learn RB
4-if possible keep you music computer off line. DAWs run the best when nothing else like anti-virus stuff running in the background.
I hope this helps.
What he said. what they said. No AMD.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 221
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 221 |
First of all, many thanks for the smart and wise comments - what a helpful community here !
Ok, I'll take the i7 route then and a Win7 64 bit. I expect a giant leap in the performances, since I have an Amd Athlon 64, 3200+ with one (yes one) GB of Ram made of two DDR each one 500 Mb. And yes, I hear you laughing..
I've purchased Biab and RB, and I like the power they have. A friend of mine is using the "MAGIX Samplitude Music Studio" (ca. 89 Euros), and the songs he produces with it sound quite good to my ears. I like also the overall layout of the program.
If someone of you uses it, I would like an opinion about.
But I'll follow too the above suggestion - that is, learn RB. It fits anyway better with the low budget :-)
The keyboard I use is a Roland Fantom G8. It has an internal audio card. I didn't connect it to my system yet (I'm using Linux at the moment, since the XP is died before that the keyboard come) but I guess - and hope - that there will be no latency issue with midi or audio recording and playback. Again, if someone had direct experience with it, it would be glad to read some opinion/review about the use of the Fantom internal sound card.
So, it's time to spare money.. an i7 is not really cheap at the moment, but I can't really wait until the i8 or i9 come, in order to get it cheaper :-/
Cheers,
Sergio
Last edited by semar; 10/04/14 11:29 AM.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,784
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Sergio I have one last suggestion. If you are really familiar with XP you may want to get Win 7 and not Win 8 or 8.1. If you have some XP programs that you like you may want to get Win 7 Pro as it has a very good XP emulator built in.
This is not to say that Win 8 or 8.1 will cause any problems it is just that the OS is so different that a lot of people do not like it.
I am using Win 7 Pro and I like it very much.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 221
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 221 |
Thanks MarioD for the tip :-)
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4 |
A whole lot of RAM and a whole lot of hard drive space. I would suggest an external hard drive to keep your DAW and files on.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 108
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 108 |
I have several daws in my arsenal but lately I am gravitating towards reason 7 or 8. Before reason was a tool that I would export from into my daw(Sonar) but that was version 4 I recently had a chance to play around with version 7 and it was really great as it has been transformed into a full daw with audio and midi recording... I am saving up my pennies to buy it myself sometime this year but I did download the demo and have been really impressed so far and it is a killer tool with biab and real band
Biab 2019 ultra pack
Dell laptop I7 running windows 2010
Midi keyboard
Roland BR600 8 track recorder
Sonar X3 producer
flstudio 20
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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