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#265547 - 10/14/14 10:27 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Sundance]
dcuny Online   content
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Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 1795
I can play a number of instruments competently, but I'll create my tracks using BiaB instead because I can get to where I need a lot faster, and get better results.

Given the option to re-tune a vocal that's flat or re-take the vocal, I'll tune the vocal.

Heck, I'll even use Vocaloids, if I think it's "good enough".

That won't stop me from practicing and performing - both my instruments and vocals.


If a non-singer can become more famous than an excellent singer, then singing clearly isn't the key to being a famous singer.
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Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#265548 - 10/14/14 10:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: MarioD]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7457
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn

"showmanship and promotion" are just another form of talent!


Yes but NOT musical talent!


I've noticed that most successful people have multiple talents.
On the other hand, the highly talented yet unsuccessful person is practically a cultural cliché.

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#265555 - 10/15/14 06:36 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Pat Marr]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4508
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn

"showmanship and promotion" are just another form of talent!


Yes but NOT musical talent!


I've noticed that most successful people have multiple talents.
On the other hand, the highly talented yet unsuccessful person is practically a cultural cliché.






Everybody is talented these days. Just ask them. grin
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#265556 - 10/15/14 07:02 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: 90 dB]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7457
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Everybody is talented these days. Just ask them. grin


LOL! I'd have to agree!

But in the context of the discussion, all the evidence suggests that talent alone isn't enough to guarantee success. And by success, I mean earning reasonable amounts of money from performing or marketing one's music.

There are millions of people chasing the same dollar, and competition is high... very little room for accidental success.

Those who beat the odds and make money do so because they have something on the ball that the rest do not have. Sometimes it's a sponsor, influential connections, a rich daddy, overwhelming undeniable talent or multiple talents, better than average song writing ability, a face or body that demands attention, a savvy marketing plan, access to some new technology ... or all of the above. And these days, my guess is that it's usually "all of the above"

Case in point: the people in this forum are all pretty talented, but we're short on rich daddies.

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#265562 - 10/15/14 07:10 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Pat Marr]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
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Loc: Florida
"...sponsor, influential connections, a rich daddy, overwhelming undeniable talent or multiple talents, better than average song writing ability, a face or body that demands attention, a savvy marketing plan, access to some new technology..."


Now that explains why I'm still flogging covers in dive bars! Thanks Pat! grin
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#265589 - 10/15/14 10:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Pat Marr]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4222
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
<...>
Those who beat the odds and make money do so because they have something on the ball that the rest do not have. Sometimes it's a sponsor, influential connections, a rich daddy, overwhelming undeniable talent or multiple talents, better than average song writing ability, a face or body that demands attention, a savvy marketing plan, access to some new technology ... or all of the above. And these days, my guess is that it's usually "all of the above"<...>


True, especially about influential connections.

But I still maintain that using auto-tune is equivalent to an Olympic or Pro Athlete using steroids.

And I know that throughout history we had had bad singers become stars, Fred Astaire, Bob Dylan, and so many more, but at least they were honest about their singing ability. They became famous being a performer or songwriter or whatever.

But to become a famous singer with the help of auto-tune just seems wrong to me.

But it seems that I am in the minority.

Insights and incites by Notes
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#265593 - 10/15/14 11:06 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Sundance]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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I agree with Mr. Norton regarding auto tune with the exception of slight use in a place or two to fix a vocal track I'm trying to sing when another vocalist is the better choice but none is available. Being flat or sharp sometimes helps show the emotion of lyrics but there are times when it doesn't fit and the 'right' note may be just beyond my range. Tuning helps in those situations for me.

I have pondered in the past where folks who think an athlete who excels with the assistance of steroids or other drug compares with a musician who writes a hit song while under the influence of alcohol or drugs?
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#265597 - 10/15/14 11:45 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Notes Norton]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10418
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton

But to become a famous singer with the help of auto-tune just seems wrong to me.

But it seems that I am in the minority.

Insights and incites by Notes


As am I my friend!
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#265598 - 10/15/14 12:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Notes Norton]
Kemmrich Offline
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Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1814
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
...But to become a famous singer with the help of auto-tune just seems wrong to me....


I can't think of anyone who has become a famous singer using autotune. Maybe T-Pain, but the auto-tune is the gimmick.

All major label studio albums use auto-tune nowadays (from what I have heard). Most studio singers (including the one everyone wants to bash, Taylor Swift) sing close enough to pitch to begin with -- and most are probably pretty good.

So I think you are extrapolating the fact that a) everyone uses autotune to the erroneous conclusion that b) they are "making it" or only sound good because of autotune.

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#265599 - 10/15/14 12:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Sundance]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
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Loc: Florida
"I have pondered in the past where folks who think an athlete who excels with the assistance of steroids or other drug compares with a musician who writes a hit song while under the influence of alcohol or drugs?"



You think they are comparable?

Curious. confused
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#265606 - 10/15/14 01:18 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: 90 dB]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Loc: South Carolina
Absolutely. Although my question referenced how supporters of the idea that steroids are too much of an advantage would apply that line of thought to musicians, I have wasted more money than I care to think about seeing a performance by a talented and competent artist too drunk to remember the lyrics to his own song. At the same time, there are artists who have lost fortunes to bad decisions made while under the influence of drugs/alcohol only to rehab and comeback and earn another fortune. It goes both ways.

In sports, it's not just steroids. Babe Ruth is nearly as famous for his strikeouts as he is for home runs. I have speculated by questioning was his strikeout record affected by him possibly playing a game either under the influence or hungover from too much drinking the night before to such a degree that his batting was affected. Pure speculation on my part, but also plausible. That's all I'm saying. Nobody that I'm aware of are suggesting that Babe Ruth or Micky Mantle's achievements should be altered because they were known to be heavy drinkers.

The comparison may not be equal but I see no harm in making such a comparison.


Edited by c_fogle (10/15/14 01:20 PM)
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#265611 - 10/15/14 01:55 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Sundance]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4508
Loc: Florida
Actually, I was responding to your statement:


"... a musician who writes a hit song while under the influence of alcohol or drugs..."


Writing music and performing music are two entirely different things. In fact, a lot of great writers are lousy performers. That's why demo studios exist. grin

Also, many hits have been written under the influence of various substances. Cole Porter wrote some of the greatest lyrics ever written - all the while packing his nose with coke.

If I spend a lot of dough on concert tickets only to watch a drunk stumble through a set, do I feel cheated? Of course. But if that same person feels he can write better behind some weed or booze, who am I to tell him he can't?

I don't buy the sports analogy, because steroids are performance enhancing drugs, while narcotics and booze are detrimental to performing. (Unless you're the Dead, of course) grin
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#265612 - 10/15/14 02:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: 90 dB]
GHinCH Offline
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Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
You think they are comparable?

Curious. confused


Well, they don't achieve the results without additional help.
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#265615 - 10/15/14 02:31 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: Notes Norton]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2059
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton

But I still maintain that using auto-tune is equivalent to an Olympic or Pro Athlete using steroids.

you could say the same thing about EQ! or about using a high-quality microphone vs. a megaphone! what about using FX and amplification on your guitar? or what about using BIAB backing tracks? it is all technology that we can use to improve our music.

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#265627 - 10/15/14 03:18 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Seduced By Perfect Pitch [Re: GHinCH]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4508
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: GHinCH
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
You think they are comparable?

Curious. confused


Well, they don't achieve the results without additional help.




You're right. Brian Wilson never would have written any good songs without drugs. grin
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Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >


PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Features a Cleaned-up BB Folder

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Band-in-a-Box® 2018 For Windows Build 509 Update Available!

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Summary of changes:
Added: The drop station has MP3 and WMAL (lossless WMA) quadrants added.
Fixed: "Drag Audio as MP3" setting in the Plugin settings did not work when dragging a file to Windows Explorer.
Fixed: "Pause Play until MIDI or key received" setting did not work if using WAS audio drivers.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box Server was unable to communicate with BB2018.
Fixed: Choosing a drum kit file in the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup dialog would fail with error "Unable to install patch/drum map for...".
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