PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Putting my own bass (or any other instrument) part in BIAB or Realband songs

I have a Korg M50 and bought a MIDI/USB adaptor. I read the related BIAB downloaded manual, watched some related videos, and checked the postings here, but other than connecting the adaptor cord between the DAW and computer, I don't have a clue how to add my own note-by-note parts from the Korg to the BIAB or Realband tracks. This is a whole lot harder than standard BIAB procedures. Could anyone tell me a step-by-step process that's easy to follow? Thanks so much. Zeke

Connecting the Adapter cord; which kind? Audio or MIDI?

If you want to hear the Korg you need to have an audio connection from the Korg to the computer.
If you want to record the note performance as MIDI you'll need a MIDI connection.

After that in RB you just highlight a new track, set it to be either an Audio or MIDI track and hit record.

We need to know more about how things are currently hooked up to give better instructions.

/Audio is not MIDI

The adapter chord has 2 MIDI connections on one side (midi in and out?) and a USB connection on the other side. I can hear the Korg O.K. with earphones. Is that O.K? If not, I'm hosed . . . I don't know of any sound input on my laptop.

Sounds like it is a MIDI connector.

Again; what is you desired goal?
Do you want to just hear you Korg using BiaB or actually record your Korg sounds?
These are two very different goals.

When you hear the Korg using headphones; where are the headphones plugged in to? The Korg, or the Computer?

You can hook up your Korg MIDI with a USB connection. For audio you can buy an USB to stereo audio input device for under $10: http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Adapter-Windows-AU-MMSA/dp/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1418264218&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+audio+input

This along with the appropriate cables will get you going assuming of course that you have enough USB inputs on your laptop. Otherwise you will also need a MIDI hub: http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-4-Port-Power-Adapter-RHUB-210/dp/B00552PMN8/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1418264465&sr=1-3&keywords=usb+hub+with+power+supply
Be sure to get a power-supplied hub. The above one is only $15.

BUT this is just a temporary fix. As you progress you will find that you will want a better sound system for your laptop. There are many to choose from such as Fostex, MOTU, Roland, etc. But for now the above will get you started very inexpensively.

I hope this helps.

This still isn't working for me:
The MIDI keyboard and the BIAB laptop each are connected to an amp/speaker. The adapter goes from the keyboard's MIDI in & out connections to the laptops USB connection. My only goal is to change the bass notes that are in a song, to ones that I want to make up, instead.

You may have to write in your own bass line in midi and mute the Real Track bass. Ray

You need to record the MIDI into Real Band.

Read up on how that is done. I have never used RB for this purpose but I do this all the time in SONAR. I'm sure the principle is the same.


Record MIDI into a midi channel. The output of the midi channel needs to go to an audio channel with a synth in it running with a bass patch. When you press a note on the midi keyboard, you should hear the note come through the speakers.

At that point, you simply set up to record the midi channel and press the RECORD button.

My recent song called THe Caddy song was recorded that exact way..... I'm playing the bass with my midi keyboard in a live take.

Another option is to record the audio out from the keyboard if you like the bass patch it uses. No midi channels involved, just one audio channel set up to record that input.

There's more about softsynths on my website page on recording.... it will explain the details which you will need to adapt to Real Band. Read the help section on recording midi with real band AND using softsynths with real band.

NOTE EDIT: You should NOT have to enter notes one by one with your mouse...... you should be able to capture them in real time into a midi track as the song is playing.

Another thing to consider is that both BIAB & RB have MIDI driver settings. Maybe the Korg is not set as the default driver for MIDI.

The Korg isn't a driver. The computer and it's sound card use one of several drivers.....ASIO, MME, WDM, or WASPI (I think it's called) The driver in the computer handles the audio and midi in/out. External devices only need drivers in some cases to let them function fully with the computer and will sometimes load that to the computer automatically, but that driver is a different driver which serves a different purpose.
This really doesn't matter because the Korg will appear only as a midi source for midi inputs. Either directly as a KORG midi source or as the interface midi input on the interface being used. As long as the computer recognizes it as a device on it's USB port if it's a USB device, it will be available to anything that can use the midi coming from it..... or in my case, I connect my midi source to my interface and when I have a midi track, I select the Focusrite Midi source from the drop down. No driver from the device is required in this setup. ASIO for the sound card "discovers" the inputs available..... both audio and midi and lets you choose from them.

What is the brand name and model number of this "adapter cable" you are using? You have to know which plug is in and which is out... find out and label them if necessary.

Where are the headphones connected for you to hear it "ok"? To the computer or to the Korg headphone jack or somewhere else?

Knowing the cable name and model will help us to figure out the problem. In other forums, we've seen folks come in with those $20 midi cables and quite often, those things are not worth the time or money and folks have a hard time getting them set up properly...and other times, they work fine.

Please fill in the blanks.

Sorry for the confusion, yes, my 6i6 shows as the MIDI driver on my setup. I was just trying to give Zeke something else to check, the MIDI driver settings in BIAB & RB.

I have an E-MU brand cable. I saw the customer review was good on it and that's why I bought it. It's "IN" and "OUT" are marked. What I have currently set-up is earphones connected to the Korg keyboard, and have an amp/speaker connected to the laptop, so both can be heard at the same time.

Monitoring by the earphone jack is one way. However, you really need to monitor the total mix coming back from the DAW. However.....

Is that the E-mu x-midi 1x1? The Uno was problematic with DAW's. I'm not familiar with this one but I believe they are pretty much all the same.

SO.... that should get the MIDI into the computer. In the MIDI track, it should show up as a possible input option. If you're not sure.... unplug it, open the midi inputs and then plug it in. It should be the new addition to that list. It might be the only one.

Select it as the input. Now you need to link it to a synth.

OK.... that's for a DAW... for REAL BAND.... it's slightly different. The following is my experiment, partially successful and a question for the power users of RB.....

First: connect the Korg to the computer. In Real Band, click on Midi devices in the midi menu and select the inputs and outputs. I used the default TTS-1 in my DAW. Click on the track in the RB window that has BASS already set up. The track number turns red. Click RECORD and play along monitoring any way you can. I simply turned up the volume on my keyboard for this test.

At the end, hit STOP. A window popped up asking me if I wanted to "keep the take"... I clicked YES.

WAAA LAAA the notes appeared in the midi track. I played the file back and they sounded.


What I was unable to do was to monitor them in real time. If you are more familiar with RB than I, please tell me how you can monitor in real time. In SONAR, for example, I can set up the synths and set there all day long and play with them without having to record anything. This is the reason I use SONAR for my DAW.... because it acts like a DAW. I can use automation, envelopes, cut & paste, monitor everything in real time.... I have a time trying to do anything in RB like that.

Depending on your goals, you should consider a fully functional audio/midi interface where you can do audio and midi input as well as get the output from it as well as headphones all monitored in real time from that one source. Also, consider a full featured DAW ...again depending on your goals.....

I use BB to write.... RB to render the tracks....and Sonar to mix. And all are using my Focusrite Saffire interface with ASIO drivers running the show.


Does that help, or add confusion?

Took a look at this device. The OP doesn't say which OS he's using but according to E-Mu this device supports XP, Vista and Win 7, no listing for Win 8.

Also, the OP could have an issue plugging it in. The "IN"
of the E-Mu MIDI interface gets plugged into the Korg midi "OUT", the "OUT" of the interface gets plugged into the Korg midi "IN".

Jeff

Possibly a very good catch..... YES... I had to get rid of an earlier sound card I was using when I needed to upgrade my OS to the new one out at the time for my business software to run properly..... BUT at the same time, the new OS did NOT support the driver to my old PCI sound card I used at that time for recording. The mfg had no plans to support it so the sound card didn't work properly....it became a dust collector and I had to buy a new soundcard/interface that was supported.

That is a possibility here as well.

I didn't read every post but keep in mind that typically Korg workstations require setting the timbre in, out, both for each track if you are using it in combi or sequencer mode. Won't transmit midi data if not sent to out or both

I'm beginning to feel technologically impaired. This is getting a lot more complicated than I believe I can handle. Is there a simpler way to replace a bass part in a BIAB song without using a MIDI keyboard? The tone of the BIAB basses are fine; I'm just not happy with the particular notes that are currently available for some of the songs.

In the long run, if you can figure out the midi interface I think you'll be glad you did. I have a similar usb/midi cable and have had no issues getting it to work with Windows 8.1. As mentioned above, the "In" on the cable goes into the "Out" of the keyboard and vice versa.

Under the options menu select midi devices or setup and then select your midi device. This last part I'm quoting from memory, so I'll have to double check to see where the setup is.

Zeke, stick with it, it's well worth it. We all had to go through this....it's kinda the unofficial BIAB initiation. You'll be amazed at what you can do once you work through this. We're all here to help and cheering you on. Reread my post...start by making sure you have the connections right; we all help from there.

Jeff

First sorry for putting this all in a PM ignore that.

Also my apologies for format I seem to have lost all formatting ability in my posts - so all intents, etc. are gone, as are indented numbered paragraphs with sub-paragraphs so this reads like a long list

Second, I FULLY concur with Mountainside, stick to it - it will pay off and you'll be glad you dug under the hood a little. However, maybe little more methodical approach might be needed for you initial troubleshooting. A lot of experienced folks here with a lot of great ideas, but all are coming at you like a fire hose and from different directions.

Report back where the below works and where it fails! And if you get to last part then the BIAB help floodgates will open.

I'd start at the beginning: with the MIDI I/O, without worrying about BIAB, RB, or KORG M50, to make sure MIDI data is actually making into the laptop.

1. What is your operating system (not sure I saw that above) Win XP? Win 7? Win 8? So we know, then we can tell you where in the WINDOWS system to look to see if the MIDI device (the E-Mu cable) is even being seen. Knowing the OS also helps us focus's help to you - it makes help specific to your situation.

2. Now let's check to see if the PC (laptop) even SEES the MIDI device (the E-Mu cable). This removes the complexity of BIAB and RB from adding to any confusion. If the cable is plugged into your laptop, even if M50 is not connected or turned on - the MIDI device (your EMU cable) should show up in the "Control Panel" -> "Device Manager" under the heading:

For Win 7 "Sound, Video and Game devices" (Win 8 probably says same thing)

For Win XP it would be "Sound, Video and Game controllers"

In any case, if you expand that list of devices for WIN 7 you should see either something that says E-MU or maybe a generic "USB MIDI" etc. device but word MIDI will be probably be visible on one of those lines.

I just tried a generic USB to MIDI cable on my WIN XP laptop and there it was called "USB Audio Device" but when I open properties for it - it shows as a MIDI item.

Does the MIDI device show up? - if yes great! you are done with this part.

If not you MIGHT need to install a driver for that Emu cable, which SHOULD have come with cable but there are other places to get that driver like

http://support.creative.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?catID=237&CatName=E-MU+/+Creative+Professional&prodID=19089&prodName=Xmidi+1x1+Tab

3. Once you know that the OS sees the MIDI Input/output (I/O) device. Then we need check to see if ANY MIDI data is flowing to your laptop from the Korg M50 - at this step we don’t care which MIDI channel(s) or what sounds are set on KORG OR BIAB. The easiest way is with a simple MIDI monitor but since you have BIAB already installed let's try a built in BIAB utility FIRST.

a. Make sure cable is connected to USB port on laptop (and that BIAB is NOT running) .

b. As others explained - connect the Korg MIDI OUT to the EMU cables "MIDI in;" then the Korg's MIDI IN is connect to the cables MIDI out. Now urn Korg on.

c. Start BIAB, don’t worry about songs, or styles or parts or tracks simply look at top of screen about the middle there is a picture of a MIDI cable connection/plug and a label says "MIDI" (the MIDI icon is right under word "Audio" and almost exactly in the center of the screen on top).

1) Click on it and select the "MIDI/Audio driver setup." Over in the window that just popped-up you'll see, on the left, a section called " MIDI Input Driver." Select as the MIDI input WHATEVER your MIDI device was called above when you looked to see if Windows OS saw it. Click OK and close that window - don't worry about selecting a MIDI output or any synths (yet!)

2) next click on the MIDI Icon again and this time select "MIDI Monitor." A new window pops up and now we'll see if data is getting into PC and on what Channel(s) ("what channel" is an untrue statement but don't worry about that right now)

--- Now hit a few keys on your Korg you SHOULD see information in that new window - if you DO NOT SEE data scrolling in that monitor window - while you hit keys on Korg then:

a). the KORG is not set properly to send MIDI data, or

b). your USB-MIDI cable doesn’t work properly and may need to have a driver installed, or
c). you need a new/different MIDI I/O cable or dedicated MIDI I/O unit

--- IF YOU DO HAVE DATA in that MIDI window - GREAT! and the Channel number listed in the "Chan" column is probably "$05" if everything is set to default. (the $ is there because it is hexadecimal number)

From here on we CAN help you set up BIAB to do what you want.

Good Luck
Larry

There you go Zeke, a step by step process all in Larry's post above. Follow his process steps and you find joy at the end.

Jeff

Zeke will find something at end - the Zen of MIDI?

From Help, Audio Preferences:

Enable Input Monitoring (ASIO Only) – When this checkbox is enabled (and ASIO is selected in the Driver Type combo) then RealBand will take the ASIO input signal from input port number 1 and send it to output 1 so that you will hear the input through the speakers. You can apply real time effects to the monitored input by selected "Input" in the top combo box of the DirectX/VST Real Time Effects dialog. You can then select up to 4 DirectX or VST effects.

WARNING! - Do not enable this feature if the input port number 1 is set to record the output (e.g. "What you hear" or "Mix" )because enabling input monitoring in this case will cause massive feedback that could hurt your ears!

Allow IM Effects Recording – When this is enabled, and Input Monitoring is enabled, and effects plug-ins are enabled for input monitoring (as described above), the effected signal will be recorded instead of the dry signal.

This is an example btw of why Help needs some help. Simply writing "input monitoring" in Search does not link to what I just pasted in. All it does is link to Audio Preferences. That's ok but the search should be more specific than that.

Zeke, your Korg is a Midi Driver. From the online manual:

8 Setting up the M50 Plug-In Editor

If you want to use the M50 Editor with the M50 connected to your computer via USB, you must make sure that you have finished installing and setting-up the KORG USB-MIDI Driver before you start up the M50 Editor.

Install it to your computer and it should show up in Biab's midi devices. And, just a quick aside, we're all willing to help but please do some basic Google searches on stuff like this. It took me all of 10 seconds to type out "korg m50 usb" and the midi driver reference popped right up.

It's still possible this driver won't install for a variety of reasons but at least you know there is a midi driver. In my Google list there's another hit from Korg support explaining how to install it. You can go to their website and search for the correct driver for your OS and that's always a good idea anyway because they may have posted a newer driver than the one that came with your keyboard.

Bob

Thanks Bob... I will look into that since I do use ASIO.

I thought there would or should be a way to monitor in real time.... I looked around in the help but didn't see anything in what appeared to be the obvious places to look.... I must have used the wrong key words in my searching.

Larry, at the end of the experiment it appears that the BIAB and Korg shared some communication. It said ($9x) instead of ($05) Do you think everything is O.K.?

I've done everything that was explained and extablished that the Korg IS communicating with the BIAB. After several days though, I can't figure out how to actually do the recording.

Why not load up the project in RealBand and record your own tracks to your hearts content?

First, what gwp99 said.

BIAB is NOT the place to learn how to do MIDI recording, sorry. I will get hate mail here from long time BIAB users on that one (and I count myself one of the longest, as well as OLDEST, users back to DOS but not quit back to it's ATARI roots - I never had an ATARI I had an home built Altair ).

I love BIAB but it really is not the place to start leaning /RECORDING MIDI. RealBand, since it came with BIAB anyway, is much better place to start: it can be set up as a basic MIDI sequencer and you can learn all the ins and outs of MIDI, channels, parts, etc. there. I don;t even record into it (usually).

Since you SEEM very new to MIDI in general, no offense, you really should do some basic reading like:

http://tweakheadz.com/how-to-get-started-with-midi-and-the-difference-between-midi-and-audio-is-explained-along-with-many-other-core-concepts-for-building-a-home-recording-studio/

http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/intromidi.pdf

FWIW: the MID channel "$09" (and I am making a BIG assumption here that you are looking at the BIAB MIDI monitor as I explained it above) simply means that BIAB has its thru channel set to channel 9 (hex 09 = decimal 09) or that your Korg is transmitting on channel 9 or both. No biggie but since the "default" Thru is Channel 5 within BAIB if it was changed did you change it?

Finally, I wasn't going to revisit this topic at all since, Jazzmammal covered it more quickly when he noticed you had a USB connection on that Korg unit; hence, he assumed you were using the KORG'S USB connection (which DOES require driver installation from Korg as he explained- succulently) and as long as it finally worked no reason for any of us to revisit this topic. And you didn't post back after a day or two.

I assumed, without even checking to see if your Korg had a USB connection, that you were using the old fashioned 5-pin DIN MIDI connections ( because you bought an additional USB to MIDI cable). Although even a basic 5-pin MIDI cable still requires Windows having some MIDI I/O interface/device installed (as explained) that you plug that cable into. However, it does beg the question why did you buy a "USB to MIDI" cable solution if you already had a unit with built-in USB MIDI capability?

But immaterial whichever one you are using two 5 PIN cables or one USB cable - if the unit finally has "comms" with PC it's time to do some basic homework.

The whole Korg "is or is not a driver," "does or does not have a diver," etc. was a rabbit hole and semantics (depends on how you approached connecting unit to PC). I have multiple HW units some with USB, LAN, one with FW, but bulk have only 5-pin MIDI connections. However, I connect all of them exclusively using 5-pin DIN MIDI cables via multiple MIDI "mixer" patch bays (to/from each other and to/from PC and laptop).

Larry

Ahhhhh! YES! RealBand is definitely the way to go!

Welcome home!

There you go....or as I like to say: when you purchase RealBand you get a copy of BIAB free!

I like that one MountainSide, I may 'borrow' it ..