Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
RealBand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
J
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
J
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
When I record in RB 2014, I set the input/output volume slider to maximum, just below the clipping range.

When exported to WAV, mp3 or burned CD files, play volumes are too low. How can I record in higher volumes that will sound like commercial CDs, mp3 or WAV files so that I do not have to increase volume knobs of CD player, etc.?

Thanks for help.


jol
RealBand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,807
J
PG Music Developer
Offline
PG Music Developer
J
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,807
Perhaps apply a peak limiter and/or compressor to the master effects slot.


Jeff Yankauer
RealBand
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
+1

One thing some miss is the slider that lies between the tracks and the 'Buss' side of the mixer.

You think you have the tracks up and the main volume up, but that one slider can catch you.
The two main sliders are pointed out in the first image below. These should always be full when doing final wave in RB.

The third arrow shows a plugin in the Final Out slot and how to look at it's reading. Top image is Ozone levels, which are pretty clear.

Bottom image is of an even more informative Level Reporting plugin (many available) that gives me the Peak VU (clip), Average RMS (loudness) and unique P/A reading that shows on average the dynamic range the song has (Peak over Average) .. not the most extreme dynamic range, but the average.

Many ways to measure it, but you need to make sure the final signal is what you want. The Final Output FX slot(s) is best place to do that.

PGPeakLimit comes with the program and can be used as a simple 'raise the volume' plugin in the Final Out slots. It doesn't have as nice a metering view or any other options, but does have a nice simple clean 'make it louder' algorithm.
Set right slider to '0' and push the left slider up to suit.

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
master1.jpg (137.42 KB, 147 downloads)
Meters.jpg (162.36 KB, 146 downloads)

Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
RealBand
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
I notice this issue as well.....

I use Real Band (RB) to create the tracks I want for the song project I'm working on.

My solution is to move the files created in RB to a different DAW. In my case, Sonar. I do all my mixing in Sonar.

In Sonar, I use normalize on the really weak tracks. Fortunately, not many need this treatment. I apply the EQ and multiband compression again, as needed in Sonar and using automation, get the mix sounding like I want it to sound. I use a mastering plug called Ozone to "polish' the mix and make it shine and thump where needed.

After all this I export the mix and import the wave into my final step in the process.... my wave editor. In the editor, I trim the start and ending of the song and do the final normalization (if needed) to bring the peaks up to just under 100% or better known as 0db. Usually about -3db works for me.

4 steps total.....write in BB, create tracks in RB, mix in Sonar, and finalize the levels in my editor.

Listen to the songs on my website from the link in my signature..... you'll see what I mean.

While the song is nicely done when coming out of BB/RB, in truth, it is far from finished. However, many people stop right there and never take it those final steps. When you do, that's where the magic can happen. An anemic mix can become powerful and full when processed correctly.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
RealBand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
J
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
J
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
Thanks for help Guitarhacker:

My problem is this: when I do file-> wave files-> merge audio tracks with VSTi/DXi tracks into stereo WAVE files...,

RB creates only one track(insttead of my 5 tracks) wave file, so when I open it in a DAW such as Magix Music Studio 2015, it opens only one track and there is no other tracks to mix.

Why does RB save all my 5 tracks into one track, and why RB does not have a volume sliders like BiaB volume sliders? Am I not knowing how to control the volume in RB or is it a programming deficiency in RB?

Thanks a million for help...


jol
RealBand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
J
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
J
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
Jeff, why is the default RB volume is about half of BiaB, and why doesn't RB have a volume slider like in Biab? Is it going to be fixed in the future?

Thanks.


jol
RealBand
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Originally Posted By: jazzerjbird
My problem is this: when I do file-> wave files-> merge audio tracks with VSTi/DXi tracks into stereo


You're choosing an option that merges the tracks. Not near a PC at the moment. I think its the third menu over after File and Edit. That 3rd column has an option to save out all wave files.




Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
RealBand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
J
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
J
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
Thanks Steve. You are a 'genius'.

It's the last Menu option in: File-> WAVE Files-> Save all tracks to WAVE files...

This made one files that contained all of my 5 tracks into individual tracks, then I imported 5 of them into Magix Studio and re-arranged to be stacked on top of another so they start play at same time, then I was able to Mix individually...

Some work but it is done. Now I wonder if there is better mixing software to make this easier? Magix Studio 2015 is $49 beginner's DAW...


jol
RealBand
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Quote:
Now I wonder if there is better mixing software to make this easier? Magix Studio 2015 is $49 beginner's DAW...


Save $49 and mix them right in RB ..

It has a mixer, with VST FX, AUX busses, subgroups etc etc.

If you take a little time to learn it you can mix right in RB.
Actually, you've already done it; when you hit 'Merge to Stereo Wave' it took your mix from RB and made a wav file for you (mixdown).
The reason it was so low is because you had sliders down low.
To check;
Open the mixer (hold CTRL key and hit the number 8 key or click on Mixer).

Between the left side showing all the Tracks (with their volume sliders) and the right side (with AUX and main outs including their associated siders) you'll see a single slider marked 'All'. Keep this one all the way to the top. Also the 'A1' slider in the bottom right set should also be set all the way up. The image below points out the two sliders.

This way, RB works at 'full volume' for your mix/merge/export functions..

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
volume2.jpg (59.39 KB, 97 downloads)

Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
RealBand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
J
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
J
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
Thanks rharv for info.

Here is what I have done so far to boost the volume in RB:

(1) Set the Windows audio settings and PC speaker levels to max.

(2) In RB mix window, I push all the track volume sliders, "ALL" master volume slider, the right side FX sliders to top position.

There are no more volume sliders to push to maximum, the output volume is still low, and the volume indicators hover around -12dB, which is half of Biab's 0dB.

So I now import the .SEQ into Magix Studio, in the Mix window I push the track and the master volume sliders to reach about 0dB, then export to an MP3 file...good volume! I don't need Magix Studio if I can only boost the volume to about 0dB in RB, like in Biab where I can adjust the desired volume... sigh....

I tend to think that this is a 'programming deficiency' in RB, since we don't have this problem in Biab!


jol
RealBand
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
It's a setting somewhere .. you just need to find it.
It's not a programming deficiency, but rather a setting somewhere.

I have produced plenty of wav files from RB that were MUCH louder than what you describe (and much louder than BiaB).

Does the RB output VU meter reflect the -12 dB? Or does it look like RB should be louder when rendered (close to zero) but it isn't?

Edit; As Jeff Y suggested, try putting a PeakLimiter in the output and see if that helps.
In the image below I inserted the PGPeakLimit plugin in the main output slot (by clicking the FX button) and boosted +6 dB.

See if that makes a difference when rendering the whole mix.


Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
pushIt.jpg (297.62 KB, 100 downloads)
Last edited by rharv; 12/13/14 02:01 PM.

Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
RealBand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
J
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
J
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
Thanks rharv, it worked! I was able to bring up the playback slider just past the -12 mark and nearing -6 range.
Your instruction and illustration are very easy good to follow.

One other issue: whenever I open a file into RB, I have the Song Summary pop up window shows up and I can't find anyway to stop it from showing...somewhat redundant for my use. Any suggestions? Thanks a million


jol
RealBand
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,719
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,719
Hi Jazzerbird. I use the fx button and the trim knob to adjust individual track volumes also. Cheers.

RealBand
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Thanks Rharv, this is a great tutorial on some of the details of rendering. Was having the same issues myself. Thanks for posting.

Jeff


Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
RealBand
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Quote:
One other issue: whenever I open a file into RB, I have the Song Summary pop up window shows up and I can't find anyway to stop it from showing...somewhat redundant for my use. Any suggestions?


Prefs - File tab has many options, so does the general tab.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
RealBand
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Yes...there's an option there to EXPORT the tracks individually. I use that..... export them to a folder and then copy them into Sonar.... (or your choice of external DAW.)


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
RealBand
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Jol, do you understand what a compressor, limiter, EQ and such do? Each of those can greatly reduce or increase the volume of either a single track or a complete mix.

RB will by default record audio tracks low because the program has no way of knowing if you're only recording q1


Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
RealBand
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Jol, do you understand what a compressor, limiter, EQ and such do? Then there's the gain change one. Try a gain change of 10 and see what happens. Each of those can greatly reduce or increase the volume of either a single track or a complete mix.

RB will by default record audio tracks low because the program has no way of knowing what kind of effects you want to use. The basic recording is simply a raw audio file, usually recorded without effects. This is to give the mixing engineer (you) the freedom to experiment. If you put a smiley face EQ on a track you could boost it by 6 DB right there. If you then add a compressor to reduce some peaks there's another DB boost. RB gives you 4 effects slots and there's a big difference between what order you put them in.

Check out Edit>Audio Effects.

People who come to RB after using another DAW for years never bother to learn all the ins and outs of RB because they don't need to, they're already familiar with their regular DAW and that's fine. Why waste all that time learning what is basically duplicate functions?

But don't assume RB can't do everything your favorite DAW can but differently. All the DAW's are different but they all will get the job done and so will RB. All those PG effects plugs are world class, they just don't look it. The various effects windows are pretty bland looking, no cool colors and graphs but the underlying effects engines are very good. This has been verified over the years by some big name people who really know this stuff including the famous programmers who wrote those effects.

You can duplicate a full mixing and mastering suite right in little ole Real Band no problem at all, it just doesn't look like the science station of the Starship Enterprise.

Bob


Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
RealBand
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Originally Posted By: jazzerjbird
Thanks rharv for info.

Here is what I have done so far to boost the volume in RB:

(1) Set the Windows audio settings and PC speaker levels to max.

(2) In RB mix window, I push all the track volume sliders, "ALL" master volume slider, the right side FX sliders to top position.

There are no more volume sliders to push to maximum, the output volume is still low, and the volume indicators hover around -12dB, which is half of Biab's 0dB.

So I now import the .SEQ into Magix Studio, in the Mix window I push the track and the master volume sliders to reach about 0dB, then export to an MP3 file...good volume! I don't need Magix Studio if I can only boost the volume to about 0dB in RB, like in Biab where I can adjust the desired volume... sigh....

I tend to think that this is a 'programming deficiency' in RB, since we don't have this problem in Biab!


DO NOT worry about the volume levels in the mixing stages. It's a common mistake many folks make, wanting the volume to be up.... However, the important part in mixing, is to get the mix and the EQ right..... make it sound good.

You can ALWAYS, ALWAYS use audio tools after the fact, in 3rd party editors and mastering suites to get the volume up.

My process involves getting the mix right and sonically solid. Then I export the song and load it into a 3rd party audio editor. It's there that I urge the last little bit of gain out of the mix track.

I look at each of the tools I have and realize that they all have a purpose and a job that they do exceptionally well. I use each one in the area of it's strength. As a result, I have one song, that is acoustic in nature, that folks have commented that it was louder than some of the rocker tunes on the same forum site, but it was also crystal clear. They were asking how I managed that task. It might have been the song SAD GOODBYE on my website.... but I'm not 100% sure since it was years ago.

The point is you can always get the volume up... but be sure you are working with a balanced mix. Get that done first...worry later with the levels.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 12/19/14 02:52 AM.

You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
RealBand
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,784
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,784
as herb said clean mix is number one. If you mix to 0db you are risking a very bad mix. Anything over 0db is already clipped digitally, and will sound harsh. mix to around -12db and then when summed at the mixing buss you will have a great mix. then boost gain either with a peak limiter, or a audio mastering program after the mix down


Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...

2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!

Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:

Friday, March 29: 8-4
Saturday, March 30: 8-4
Sunday, March 31: closed

Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,399
Posts732,550
Members38,442
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
danielsk, Mark Morgan, zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy
38,442 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 199
Al-David 133
DC Ron 115
rsdean 85
dcuny 83
Today's Birthdays
(charlie), WobblyGstring
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5