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#277154 - 12/30/14 08:57 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested)
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2817
There are presently very evident shortcomings & limitations to the UT concept as a whole, and we can only hope it's something they will continue to address and work to improve in future updates. I have found that making even the simplest patterns work smoothly without these cut-offs, pitch and 'bleeding' issues that have noted, has been an utter pain that require a LOT of tweaking and trials.
Among the primary shortcomings of this whole feature my experiments have revealed:

1. Timing is extremely sensitive, i.e. needs to be ridiculously precise, much more so than you'll get on the official RT's, and this goes for note lengths as well (no overlaps or lingering legato - and NO REVERB!). This becomes even more important with fixed-note instruments, such as pianos, vibes (just my luck) and so on, or else you get very weird pitch distortions on chord changes, particularly when it's a progression not used in the UT's creation template. On the flip side though, if your instrument is guitar or others where bending notes is a natural occurrence, you're more likely to 'get away' with the slight timing inaccuracies.
2. Any attempts of syncopated playing needs to be planned with great care, if not avoided altogether (this is especially true of swung patterns). Especially try avoid playing on the upbeat just before the next chord/bar, or else the engine's 'anticipation' feature kicks in and tries to treat it as a part of the following chord. Once I discovered this, I had to rework a lot of my playing and omit all those lovely 4th bar entries I had done, because of this issue.
3. And of course, the 1-minute template is rubbish if you hope to get any sort of decent results in terms of actual usage. For a glaring example, they don't account for any 2 chords-per-bar instances at all. So use it as a learning/practicing tool, then go make your own chord progressions (and lots of them!), that's my advice.

The best way then to reveal these issues in a UT on testing, is to make a song with chords that were not included in whatever template was used to base that UT on.

p.s. On a personal side note, I'm almost finished making ending templates for my vibes sets. Stay tuned! cool
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#277184 - 12/30/14 11:11 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: Icelander]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3718
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
There is a learning curve and improvements to be made with any new feature introduction. I think in a case like this it's difficult to imagine the many ways a feature maybe used until it is released.

The UserTracks feature still needs much improvement before it can move from the novelty column and into the gotta' have column. In my mind major improvements include:

(A) 3/4 waltz time compatability
(B) accomodate holds, shots & rests without using a work around
(C) accommodate eighth and sixteenth note pushes.
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Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (516) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
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i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#277189 - 12/30/14 11:46 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: Icelander]
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
Quote:
There is a learning curve and improvements to be made with any new feature introduction. I think in a case like this it's difficult to imagine the many ways a feature maybe used until it is released.


+1
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Down The Street vs2015 12-03-2014
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#322850 - 12/03/15 05:37 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: seeker]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3718
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Bump
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Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (516) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#323200 - 12/05/15 10:43 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: Icelander]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13436
Good tips and suggestions Icelander. Thanks. We plan on updating the Usertracks features in January, for a free latch, and hopefully those suggestions can be addressed then.
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PG Music Inc.

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#323205 - 12/05/15 10:55 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: PeterGannon]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2817
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
Good tips and suggestions Icelander. Thanks. We plan on updating the Usertracks features in January, for a free latch, and hopefully those suggestions can be addressed then.
That's great news, Master PG! I emailed the UT supervisor with much more detailed reports on this subject around the time we were beta testing for my platform last spring, which should be of further help.

And many thanks to Mr. Fogle for bumping this thread, which obviously resulted in catching PG's notice this time around, so a bump well "spent" smile
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Never finish what you can't start!
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#347597 - 04/28/16 01:07 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: Icelander]
rodipoet Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 301
Loc: Netherlands
Peter Gannon promised a patch for the shortcomings in the user tracks for january.
It is now almost may, four months late.................
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www.robdeklerk.nl

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#347735 - 04/29/16 12:02 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: rodipoet]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2409
There has currently a lot of post January beta testing of new features and fixes - that were put on hold for the 2016 Mac version that has been released early, coming closer to the features of the Win version and eventually the same release date maybe - so now they have a bit more time up their sleeve we could very well see these user track fixes in an update for both Mac & Win - but don't hold me to it.

Maybe they could release some decent professional templates to bring user tracks more inline with real tracks.

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#347744 - 04/29/16 02:39 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Usertracks [Re: Icelander]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13055
Loc: Australia
I agree with Pipeline. Priorities change as circumstances demand and there's no doubting whatsoever that PG Music have been working really hard since before Christmas! The program has undergone huge changes for both Windows and Mac. I'm really glad to have this latest version!
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#347901 - 04/29/16 11:35 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Usertracks [Re: Icelander]
Jon Thomas Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/18/15
Posts: 172
+1

I just wanna say that, in my personal opinion, the UT feature is absolutely crucial for Band in a Box. It's really a wonderful, fantastic feature, but still needs MANY improvements to be really usable with a quality comparable to the official real tracks. To me, this is so important that I would be perfectly happy to have NO other improvements at all for next year, but a perfectly working UT feature.
Please PG !! :-)
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BIAB 2018 Audiophile edition
Win 7, 64 bit

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#356556 - 07/07/16 03:29 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: PeterGannon]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2409
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
Good tips and suggestions Icelander. Thanks. We plan on updating the Usertracks features in January, for a free latch, and hopefully those suggestions can be addressed then.


Bump..Bump..Bump

So are these the fixes we are all still waiting on ? :

3/4 waltz
holds, shots, pushes & rests
Avoid Transpositions in UserTracks
Intro starts on this bar (2 or 3 bar intro/count-in/lead-in/pickup for bars -1 & 0,1)


Can anyone add to this ?

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#356586 - 07/07/16 11:28 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: Pipeline]
balbuena Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 56
Hello, yes that's true function UT and essential dan band in a box and still missing 3/4 waltz hold, shots, shoot and rests Avoid transpositions in UserTracks Intro begins on the bar (2 or 3 bar introduction / countdown
Yet Peter Gannon had announced in December 2015 that his team would ensure that the UT is resolved.
  It would be nice if Peter Gannon or Andrew could give us an explanation.
Balbuena thank you


Edited by balbuena (07/07/16 11:33 PM)

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#442283 - 12/03/17 06:34 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: Icelander]
Jon Thomas Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/18/15
Posts: 172
I'm bumping this old thread just to ask if there's any improvement in the UT engine in BIAB 2018. I'm eagerly waiting for my BIAB 2018 hard drive, but it's gonna take some time - I live overaseas - and I couldn't find any info on possible UTs improvement in 2018. Anybody has any info about it?


Edited by Jon Thomas (12/03/17 06:35 AM)
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BIAB 2018 Audiophile edition
Win 7, 64 bit

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#442307 - 12/03/17 08:58 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: Icelander]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17211
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Jon, I haven't tried this feature, but I believe there was nothing announced during the testing of version 2018 that changed it.
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#442313 - 12/03/17 09:20 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Plenty of issues & shortcomings still to fix (for staff & others interested) [Re: Jon Thomas]
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3718
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
According to some comments Andrew made some items were fixed. UserTracks now work with 3/4 waltz time signature and they worked on improving the endings.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (516) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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Moderator:  Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon 
PG Music News
New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac packages during our release special (which ends May 31st!).
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac release special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=fzkX6jO_hW4

Video - 202 NEW RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac we also released 202 NEW RealTracks (in Sets 278-300)!

Listen to all the individual demos here: www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.202newrealtracks.htm, or watch our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - 202 New RealTracks Overview Video: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=7ZrfGSqjaOU

Get all 202 new RealTracks when you purchase any Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade - on sale until May 31st!

Holiday Hours - Monday, May 21st

We're celebrating Victoria Day on Monday, May 21st. Our hours for the long weekend will be:

Customer Service:
Saturday, May 19: 7:00am - 5:00pm PST
Sunday, May 20: 8:00am - 4:00pm PST
Monday, May 21: 8:00am - 4:00pm PST

Technical Support:
Closed (will re-open Tues, May 22 at 10am PST)

Video - The Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac boasts over 50 new features and enhancements... including the Build-in Audio Chord Wizard!

The Audio Chord Wizard has been redesigned and is now built into Band-in-a-Box®. Previously, the Audio Chord Wizard was a separate app and not tightly integrated into Band-in-a-Box®. This app is still available from the [Audio Chord Wizard] toolbar button, but the improved built-in Audio Chord Wizard can be accessed from the Audio Edit window.

Watch our latest video to learn more: Video link - Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac

Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - Everything You Need to Know in Under 5 Minutes!

Want to quickly see the new features included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac in action?

Check out this video, Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac® ! Everything you need to know in under 5 minutes*: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=XSSQpijRyxk

*The video includes an extra 2 minutes for the 49-PAK! The first 5 minutes show you all of the great new features and content available with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac®, and it's followed by additional video showing off the 2018 49-PAK for Mac.

Xtra Styles PAKs are ON SALE until May 31st!

Xtra Styles PAK 4 was initially released with our Windows version of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows, and with the release of our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac, we're having a sale!

Xtra Styles PAK 4 has over 150 RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and 'Folk and Beyond' styles, which work with the RealTracks included in any Band-in-a-Box® version 2017 or higher UltraPAK/UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK, or Audiophile Edition!

We've put all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE until May 31st! Purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=mac

Listen to all the demos of these new Xtra Styles here, or check out this video: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=Zl_wr47d2V0

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - 45 Requests Fulfilled!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac is here, and there's more than 80 new features! We've answered some user requests with this release, including:

Q. I am learning guitar. The RealTracks are very helpful in that I can hear great guitar players, and most of the tracks have tab and notation as well. But there is much more to guitar, could you include some videos of some of the RealTracks Artists? Because I would learn much more from seeing a guitarist than just hearing them.

A. We have a major new feature called "Video RealTracks." These work and sound like RealTracks, but you get to see a video of the Guitarist (or whatever instrument) playing as well. The amazing thing is that this works with any chord progression you type in. So, if you want to learn to play like the great guitarist Brent Mason, for example, you can type in chords to any progression you are interested in, and then hear and see a video of Brent soloing over your progression. Now you can learn much quicker, as it helps to see how a musician is performing, as well as to hear.

Q. I use the feature to make a video of the chord sheet from a Band-in-a-Box song. I use it to make backing tracks and upload them to YouTube. But these don't include any notation for the melody and lyrics of my songs. My viewers would like to see the melody and lyrics too. Is there a way you can include the melody in the video? I've tried recording this with screen capture programs, but it's time consuming, recording in real time, and the audio quality and sync are not that good.

A. Yes, Band-in-a-Box 2018 can do this now. You can save your song as a video of the notation track. So that includes the notation, guitar tab, and lyrics. And saving the whole video and audio just takes a few seconds, much faster than real time recording. Just load in your song with chords, melody, lyrics, and/or guitar tab, and press Save-As Notation Video. Your song will be up on YouTube in no time!

Q. I am songwriter and uses Band-in-a-Box to make backing tracks for my productions. I'm starting to make videos and upload them to YouTube. Can Band-in-a-Box help with my production videos?

A. Band-in-a-Box 2018 can now make videos with Video RealTracks, of the musicians performing the RealTracks. And they are playing along to your song's chord progression. You can include these videos in your own song performance, which adds a nice visual element.

Q. I use the Audio Harmonies in Band-in-a-Box. But I find the harmonies simplistic, in that they are mainly using chord tones. The Band-in-a-Box MIDI harmonies are more sophisticated, using passing tones. Why can't my Audio Harmonies work like that?

A. We've added support for new types of Audio Harmonies in the Audio Edit Window. These do allow you to choose any Band-in-a-Box MIDI harmony that has passing tones or sophisticated jazz voicings (adding 4 parts to make a 5-part jazz voicing for example). Band-in-a-Box automatically figures out the MIDI version of your melody so it uses this to create the harmonies.

Q. The new toolbar is nice, but needs more color options. Too much grey! How about skins?

A. We've added support for skins, and you can choose color or grey scale options for toolbar, mixer etc.

And more!!!

All of the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac can be reviewed at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.new.htm

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