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So..... since we're talking about SUBs..... (albeit a different kind in another thread) ... I thought a discussion on SPEAKERs.... SUB speakers would be in order here.
Who uses subs in their studios or in live performances?
Feel free to discuss the details.
I decided that I wanted... or needed a sub in my studio since I was mixing with a pair of Mackie MR5 reference monitors. And if you can't hear "it" you certainly can not mix it properly. Or so the saying goes.
After all, 5" cones can only move a very limited volume of air. So I searched and found a good deal on a Polk Audio 10" 100w home stereo sub speaker and ordered it. It's fed from a spare output on my 8 output Saffire interface. It took a bit of time playing with it to achieve what I felt was a good balance for it between the lows it provides and the MR5's. I think it's running set similarly to the MR5's.....about half way up. And the crossover is tweeked a bit for where it begins to work.
From day one, this sub has been like ear candy, allowing me to hear the full bottom end on my mixes. When the kick drum hits and the thud from the toms hit, you can feel it....same with the bass guitar and synths are simply awesome to behold with a sub. And when the bass and kick are in the groove, what a wonderful thing of sub-awesome beauty. Like the words to a song by Boston.... It's more than a feeling....
I do shut it off from time to time as I work on the mix to be sure I'm still in the proper range in the mix on the low end.
I think I found this one on sale for under $200 at the time..... it was quite some time back so I don't recall the exact purchase price.... but it was the lowest price I saw anywhere else on subs in the same size and power range.
Personally, I don't think it matters much that the sub was designed for home stereo/ theater system use vs studio.
So... do you sub or not?
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/22/15 03:31 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Hey Herb, I remembered a discussion on this from last summer: July 2014 Post I agree with your comment on smaller monitor cones needing the sub more. I also use that Mike Senior book for a studio reference book. In my case I use some JBL LSR4328s. I believe the 8" speakers provide enough low end to not need a sub. If I needed to mix a style of music that uses a lot more low end, then maybe yes, I would need a sub.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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I do have a couple 'sub' systems. One M-Audio and one Blue Sky.
I like them, but not as much as the 8" speakers.
I'll use the subs when I feel the need though.
As Mac says - run what ya brung.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I have never used them to mix with, although I used to have a set of computer speakers (aimed mainly at gamers) that I wish I still had- the sub in that system made the sound phenomenal! I am thinking of getting one for live performance to supplement my Yamaha Stagepas 300 PA. It has no bottom end to speak of but is otherwise holding up pretty well and I don't want to part with it just yet. I mounted both speakers on a single stand using a dual pole mount- so it would work just as well if I had a sub with a pole mount on top. The goal is to travel small and have a small footprint- ultimately I'd love to have one of those Bose Linear Array systems but right now they are out of my price range. The last band I was in used a pair of Mackie 18's- one on either side of the stage. Those things were monsters! I'm thinking a 15 or even a 12 would suffice for me. There are a couple on eBay that I keep on my watch list (while I check the local stores for used gear- they sometimes get used 18's but those are just too big for me) Rockville Seismic These aren't what I'd call name-brand gear but I think they'd work for me- anybody have any experience with either brand?
BiaB/RB 2014 OmniPak
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My small KRK's do what they are designed for, i.e., present a self powered flat unadulterated soundstage. For me if my mix sounds "good" on them at a fairly low volume it will also sound good on my larger system (Yamaha integrated amp, Polk Audio towers and Yamaha 10" sub). Works for me, perhaps not for everybody.
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18" Powered Sub........Boom Boom.  
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18" Powered Sub........Boom Boom. In my Smart Car...
Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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18" Powered Sub........Boom Boom. In my Smart Car... HA! Is there room for anything else? 
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Sub in my PA? No.
Car? Lord, no.
Sub in the main studio (otherwise known as the larger bedroom) with 8" monitors, no.
Sub in the small mixing room with 6" Mackie monitors, yes, an Adam sub turned up only about 1/3 for presence.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Sub in my PA? No.
Car? Lord, no.
Sub in the main studio (otherwise known as the larger bedroom) with 8" monitors, no.
Sub in the small mixing room with 6" Mackie monitors, yes, an Adam sub turned up only about 1/3 for presence.
I usually just crank that 18 up untill it breaks a glass on the bar, then back it off a bit.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Sub in my PA? No.
Car? Lord, no.
Sub in the main studio (otherwise known as the larger bedroom) with 8" monitors, no.
Sub in the small mixing room with 6" Mackie monitors, yes, an Adam sub turned up only about 1/3 for presence.
I usually just crank that 18 up untill it breaks a glass on the bar, then back it off a bit. Now that is not only one hell of a sound check, but that's funny I don't care who you are. LMAO! Later,
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Sub in my PA? No.
Car? Lord, no.
Sub in the main studio (otherwise known as the larger bedroom) with 8" monitors, no.
Sub in the small mixing room with 6" Mackie monitors, yes, an Adam sub turned up only about 1/3 for presence.
I usually just crank that 18 up untill it breaks a glass on the bar, then back it off a bit. Now that is not only one hell of a sound check, but that's funny I don't care who you are. LMAO! Later, The glass technique doesn't always work. We played in an aircraft hangar last weekend, and our 18" sub just disappeared in the massive space. I had to resort to the pain-inducing mic feedback technique.
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I work with synths a lot, and listen to music with suboctave content. My left and right monitors have a hard cutoff at 50 Hz; there is a characteristic/clichéd descending tone used in EDM (electronic dance music) that just disappears below that, so I must have a sub to listen and mix with. My phones go down to 5 Hz, but it just isn't the same. I got a 10" JBL powered unit pushing 100-150W of power. I can't even begin to crank it up as the windows in my tiny music room start rattling early on. That's okay--keeps my lease intact!
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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I work with synths a lot, and listen to music with suboctave content. My left and right monitors have a hard cutoff at 50 Hz; there is a characteristic/clichéd descending tone used in EDM (electronic dance music) that just disappears below that, so I must have a sub to listen and mix with. My phones go down to 5 Hz, but it just isn't the same. I got a 10" JBL powered unit pushing 100-150W of power. I can't even begin to crank it up as the windows in my tiny music room start rattling early on. That's okay--keeps my lease intact! Yup... I don't care how good the studio reference speakers are.... there are sometimes only a sub will get the job done.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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And then there is the variable of the type of music you are mixing. For me, I don't want anything in the mix that I need a sub to hear.
In coming!!
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And then there is the variable of the type of music you are mixing. For me, I don't want anything in the mix that I need a sub to hear.
Mandolins and acoustic guitars don't need a sub.... you're right.... but even BG can be enhanced with the right speakers/sub.... I'll wager live BG shows have subs these days.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I usually just crank that 18 up untill it breaks a glass on the bar, then back it off a bit. very considerate 90dB ( Altough you probably need a little more than 90dB )
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I got lucky and picked up a great pair of used Altec Model 14's a few years ago.
These were the last of the Altec studio monitor series before the "real" Altec Lansing went under. Mine are the home version with nice wood veneer as opposed to the battleship grey painted studio ones. I'll mix in the bedroom on my RSL 8" and then take it to the living room to listen on the Altecs. Definitely no sub needed. The small studio monitors we all talk about are nice and all but you really need a pair of old school serious studio monitors to really tell what you've got.
Back in the day when I was doing session work they would have a big system like my Altec's or a big pair of JBL 15" with the baby cheeks, smaller home type stereo speakers like Pioneers or KLH or similar and a small car radio setup.
For the first time in years I did a thing at a studio in N Hollywood last October and it was like nothing's changed. They had a big pair of UREI's hanging from the ceiling in the control room with a set of computer speakers on the console. UREI used to have Altec drivers I don't know what they have now. You need at least a pair of 12's being powered by about 1000W even if the volume is not that loud, to really hear what you've got. The engineer used to work for Ray Charles and I asked him about subs and he said unless you're doing the modern rap EDM super low stuff he never uses them. That's a different world from what we're talking about here.
Anyway, bottom line imho if you're really trying to mix something that's pro guality at home you need a proper space with good acoustic treatment and the proper equipment including serious monitor speakers. You can only do so much with 5 or 8" monitors and unless you have really, really good ears, trying to balance a sub can throw off your mix.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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You need at least a pair of 12's being powered by about 1000W even if the volume is not that loud, to really hear what you've got. Interesting that you say that because there's a lot of truth to that. Unfortunately, for most people, having such a set up is totally out of the question. Cost alone to get the flat response cabinet, speakers that can handle the task at hand, and the amp that can deliver the power needed to control...tightly control the cones, is out of the average home enthusiast's budget. Likely the cost for the speaker monitoring system would easily exceed by several times, the investment many folks have in their entire home studio setup. So they are left with what they can afford.... which falls back to the small cone reflex speakers......and a sub. But it's nice to dream.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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