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If I were you, I wouldn't buy anything until I had done a lot of reading and had come to a basic understanding of how audio gear works.


http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-For-Musicians-Revised/dp/0825615003


Google is your friend.


Regards,

Bob

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Originally Posted By: 90 dB
If I were you, I wouldn't buy anything until I had done a lot of reading and had come to a basic understanding of how audio gear works.


http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-For-Musicians-Revised/dp/0825615003


Google is your friend.


Regards,

Bob


Yup....

Not every interface is a good buy.

You need to look at several things....

1. Be sure it uses ASIO drivers.... the real ASIO and not some sort of codec or proprietary wrapper. If it can run other drivers, that's cool but it must run ASIO.... if not, don't buy it.

2. Be sure it has pre-amps on the audio inputs. Some do, and some don't. If it does, you don't need the mixer.

3. Be sure it can deliver phantom power for condenser mics.

4. Be sure it has the required number of inputs and outputs you either need or want. If you have an eight input interface, but the software you use and only handle 2 active inputs at a time, you are wasting money on that interface.

I don't use Linux but I'm gonna guess that most interfaces will not run fully supported on that OS when they are developed for Win & Mac.

Quote:

Herb (may I call you Herb?), it's not just a matter of showing off to my friends and marveling at blinking lights. It's that I am trying to solve two problems with one tool - if possible. I have felt the need for a mixing board for a while, then I got involved in this home recording thing, and I have found a mixing board that is an audio interface. I thought that would be a good idea, but you really hate mixing boards, dontcha.


Yes you may.... the comment was intended more as a light hearted joke.... I used to have lots of things with blinking lights and it certainly looked cool and impressive....

And no... I don't hate mixing boards. There's a time and a place for them. However, in the average home studio, where you have one person, working on a song project, and where budgets are tight for buying gear, mixers are no longer needed. Even some of the professional studios are looking at "mixing in the box" and getting rid of the old boards. Yeah, I doubt that all of them will go to strictly "in the box" .... there's always going to be those who love the boards and refuse to change and I'm perfectly fine with that. Some of those boards impart their own color and it's a good thing.

I do, however, have a great disdain for the multi-function gizmo's that combine an interface with anything else. Get a solid interface, (I like M-audio, presonus, focusrite) if you want a mixer, get a good mixer, if you need a guitar processor, get a solid guitar processor and use cables to connect them.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 03/27/15 02:40 AM.

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So much to go over. I always focus on exactly WHAT do you want to record?

By that I mean will it be live AUDIO like hanging a mic in front of a guitar cab or you singing or will you be playing a MIDI keyboard using midi cables also? I'm describing two types of recording, live remote stuff like recording a rehearsal with your band and strictly recording stuff at home using your computer.

This alone is tricky for a noob to understand. You can play a regular stage keyboard that has midi connectors on it but you're connecting it to the computer using the audio outputs. That raises the question, how to get the audio into your computer? You can use adapters to get a 1/4" jack from your keyboard to the tiny mini line in plug on the back of your computer. If you don't want to mess with that then you need an audio interface.

Midi is a whole other thing. Midi means you're using your keyboard as a midi controller triggering a softsynth that's been installed in your computer. That means you need an audio and midi interface. Not all interfaces have midi such as mixers that double as interfaces. I've not seen any of those that include midi. Latency is not an issue if you're recording audio but it certainly is when you're working with midi. That's when the interface is critical and the ASIO drivers that come with it.

Forget Linux. There's tons of threads about using Linux as the OS for a home studio. It's so limited that it's barely worth it. That takes us to the next question. PC or Mac and which version of those OS's will you be using?

You need to tell us these things before we begin to talk about what stuff you need to pick up.

Bob


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If you're using a Linux based OS on your computer.... the best bet is to buy a dedicated WINDOWS computer for your musical projects.


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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
If you're using a Linu x based OS on your computer.... the best bet is to buy a dedicated WINDOWS computer for your musical projects.





Plus Lucm states: "Those Tascam mini studios seem to be very good indeed, but they're a bit expensive where I live, and my focus has changed a lot since the beginning of this thread. Now I realize that Guitarhacker is absolutely right, I should get an audio interface and focus entirely on the 21st century, home recording approach.

I just can't get over the price tag on these things. mad "

Originally Posted By: 90 dB
If I were you, I wouldn't buy anything until I had done a lot of reading and had come to a basic understanding of how audio gear works.


http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-For-Musicians-Revised/dp/0825615003


Google is your friend.


Regards,

Bob


Even a moderate priced Windows PC and audio interface will easily cost more than a stand alone Multi-track recorder. No linux OS worries, no asio worries, no latency worries. The multi-track will always have enough memory, power and proper drivers to do any task asked of it because it is designed by Tascam to do so. Firmware can be updated, storage is endless with SD cards and the operation learning curve is much less than any PC software DAW,DXi/VST combo.

Tascam's preamps and a/d-d/a converters are on par with the other manufacturer's interface offerings and the unit is designed with enough horsepower to handle full capacity of its use without a hiccup.

I don't think you can put together a retail combination of a new windows PC, 8 channel audio interface and audio software package at a comparable cost to a MTR. Plus in the time it would take to set up the new computer, connect the interface, install the drivers, install the software and troubleshoot getting everything to work together, Lucm could have several songs recorded on the MTR.

Is it Protools? No - but its audio files will work with Protools, Garageband, Cubase, Avid, Studio One, Sonar or any other wav compatible software.


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Quote:
Even a moderate priced Windows PC and audio interface will easily cost more than a stand alone Multi-track recorder.


That's possible, I haven't looked at the all in one multi-tracks recently. I remember the one I had .... editing was a real PITA....

I'd say save the money until you have enough to buy a Windows computer and an interface. Software for the DAW is available for $20 so that's the least of the cost.... editing on a software windows based DAW is so easy to do....


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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Quote:
Even a moderate priced Windows PC and audio interface will easily cost more than a stand alone Multi-track recorder.


That's possible, I haven't looked at the all in one multi-tracks recently. I remember the one I had .... editing was a real PITA....

I'd say save the money until you have enough to buy a Windows computer and an interface. Software for the DAW is available for $20 so that's the least of the cost.... editing on a software windows based DAW is so easy to do....



I agree Herb. Purchase wise, Lucm has received more than enough advice to make at least an 'informed' choice to address needs and wants. Dollar wise, there is also the option of buying used and slightly outdated PC gear. Investment wise and time wise, for the cost of a Presonus or Focusrite 8 channel interface, with an MTR, Lucm is up and going.

For me, saving money for a wishlist item has never worked well. Life has always had a way of sucking the life out of a savings account. One car repair, broken water pipe and even a new dream can magically cause $$$$ to disappear.


Not knowing the MTR you've had experience with, how long ago, the price bracket or even how long you stuck with it before jumping to a PC DAW, it's hard to judge how much a PITA you had. Remember splicing/editing real tape from the pre-digital days? Not only a PITA but some pressure because of the destructive nature of the task.

I agree that even today some of the lower price range units are somewhat difficult to maneuver around in menu's to find and execute even simple tasks but not so with higher end units, in particular, the Tascam DP-24/32 models. Their channel strip/Fx section functions in the same fashion as a Presonus Studiolive digital mixer board's Fat Channel'. Recording is a breeze and if one has even the most rudimentary knowledge of playing live with a mixer, they can set up and record with a DP-24/32/2488 or comparable Korg, Roland or Yamaha MTR without ever reading the manual.

Editing on the Tascam is both intuitive and easy. Copy/Paste/Cut/Move/insert/delete and auto-punch-in are all set up and selected in the same manner and the user simply has to know which operation he wants to perform. Three buttons to press at the most. (From),(To) and (here) if moving the selection is necessary. Many functions, including setting markers, punch-in's (auto or manual), record, play and stop can be done with a foot switch and/or midi control.

If you're still missing your DAW at this point, simply connect the MTR USB to your PC and your DAW will see the MTR as a drive and it's files will be available to the advanced features of the DAW. Alternately, if you have finished with the MTR, simply unplug the SD card and insert that into your PC.

My Tascam DP-24 is an integral part of my home studio and functions as a 'detachable' front end to my DAW. It is just as accessible to my DAW and all its features as my Presonus USB interfaces. I have immediate access to record up to 8 simultaneous inputs without any additional setup on my PC of drivers, asio/mme or soundcard issues and I don't have to mess with buffer size, or any of that. It offers zero latency since there is no direct connection to the DAW.

I would suggest to anyone looking to increase their recording channel count when upgrading their home studio to consider a MTR because it offers a lot of additional benefits for the comparable cost of an 8 channel audio interface.


Last edited by c_fogle; 03/29/15 04:38 AM.

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That Tascam DP-24 would serve well as a live mixer as well. That would sure make recording live demos a lot easier..........Hmmmmmmmm...


I HATE YOU CHARLIE !!!!! mad mad mad [b][/b]

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Hi, everyone. I'm back. First of all, I want to say that this group is awesome. Great people here. I hope I haven't been a nuisance to anyone. Perhaps I can say that my quest is approaching an end. I've been reading all day long for days, passing out in bed with the tablet on my hands, and I've learned a lot about many things. My quest is not over yet, but there is a lot less haze in my sight, everything is clearer and should be resolved soon.

Now on to the latest comments.

Bob, I'll reply to you last.

Herb, sorry if I sound stubborn, but I really loathe Windows. I used it for a few years then moved to Linux and never looked back. Learning was hard, but definitely worth it. I also used to think that Linux was too limited, but I've been investigating that over the last few days and I'm having a pleasant surprise. There is a lot more music software than I thought, and some of it is really good. I'm just not happy with the plugins, I think I can do better on Caustic even with its limited number of effects, but the whole scenario is certainly better than I'd thought. And I'm not so sure that Windows is the best bet for serious computer musicians anymore. Take a gander at this thread, for example:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_devices/windows-support-for-usb-audio-20/0d633b9f-3193-4c63-8654-fb10b3614a04?page=9

Weird, wild stuff.


Charlie (I assume c_fogle is Charlie), I have ruled out a multi track recorder for the time being, simply because it's too expensive. Everything is too expensive in my country, it's the worst place in the world for people who love technology. frown I found the Tascam DP-24 for sale here and whoa, too much for my wallet. Not gonna happen now. I had considered the Tascam DP-008ex, but after further investigation, I don't want it anymore. It's 16-bit only and two inputs only. It's 8 track on playback, not on recording. I would have to do a lot of overdubbing, and that I can do already without buying anything. For a tad more, I could get a Tascam DR-40 or even stretch my budget to the max and get a Zoom H5. I really like the way you think and it seems to be a very good piece of equipment, I just can't afford it.


Now here is a full-length reply to Bob (jazzmammal):

Alright, let me separate all the ideas. For the sake of clarity, let's say I have three distinct projects:

1) my band
2) other bands
3) myself alone

1) My band. That one is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You see, I am a drumkit apprentice. I make some pretty good beats on the beatbox, but I am a big nerd who takes studying seriously and decided that it would be very beneficial to me if I had true drumkit lessons, so I would understand the whole beating business better. I like the classes, I have a good teacher. He loves jazz and hates percussionists. smile The school set me up with a band so we can practice, the whole bunch of newbies. It's a plus that the school offers for free. I could turn it down, but I understand it will be a very good experience so I accepted it although I have, strictly speaking, no time for that. I've been pulling time out of my sleeves like magic to accommodate it.

Well, incidentally, I am very, VERY interested in learning all aspects of production, so yes, I can use the rehearsals as an opportunity to learn and practice, but I don't really have to do that if it becomes a problem, like say, buying expensive equipment just for that. But it kind of overlaps with the second project:

2) Other bands. I have many musician friends, including one who is a close friend and very talented, he has an album and he's asked me to produce his performances. I can't, I'm not ready for that, but I am willing to learn. Besides that, I am assistant producer of a monthly event, a sort of a cabaret with pre arranged guests and it's also an open mic night. It's the best description I can provide. Anything goes. That's why I strongly considered buying a mixing board. The one we have now is not ours, it belongs to the bar, it's old and kind of lame, and nobody seemed to know how to operate it, not even the bar staff. I had to learn and I was promoted to mix desk operator. Mind you, it's just a leisure thing put up by friends having fun, and it's loads of fun, but we care about the quality of production. We are better than most similar events in our city, except for the sound. We really have to put more effort into that, and it's a matter of honor to me because I always loved all things related to sound, I just had to be realistic and pursue another career in life, now I have to catch up with my passion. So that project involves producing live performances and recording them. That is more or less important to me. I can postpone it, and I HAVE to postpone it if it becomes expensive, but I would be a happier person if I could pursue it to the fullest.

3) Myself alone. This is the one that really, really, absolutely matters above everything else. It involves me writing songs, plus production, recording, mix'n'mastering, everything. I'll have to learn production from scratch, but that's all the more fun. I'm a huge nerd at heart, I love learning and I gobble up heaps of information quite fast. I know it's going to be one heck of a ride.

I've been writing my songs on Caustic, a phone/tablet application that has an excellent beatbox and many synthesizers. It's very good for the sounds and has excellent workflow within its own restricted context, but it's made for mobile and it wants to stay that way, so there are serious limitations. I am forced to deal with a lot of overdubbing. At least I can hook up a MIDI controller to it (over USB), but I can only hook the tablet up to the computer through an analogue TRS cable, or Caustic can dump the track into a WAV file that I can edit on the computer. It can dump each instrument into a separate file too, that helps, but the whole process still is a bit clumsy. I guess I would have to use the exact same approach if I used a multi track recorder (such as Tascam). Caustic also runs on desktop, both on Windows and Linux, and I still don't know how much I can leverage that. The jackd server on Linux is very good for routing inputs and outputs all over the place, but it's complicated like hell even to a seasoned Linux user like me, I still haven't learned that, and I don't think Caustic can provide multiple individual channels except on dumped WAV files. If I route its output through the jack system, it's probably going to be the one channel only. It's not made for the desktop and it's not made to interact with other tools directly.

I have Caustic on two tablets, plus one or two other applications that might help a lot, so I would like to be able to combine several inputs. Don't forget there is my singing, it's an input too, and I am probably going to have someone over to play the guitar. Other instruments are not out of the question. I know some people. I am now preparing to wean off Caustic and embrace some other music authoring application on desktop.

When I posted here for the first time, I had no idea of equipment (obviously) and I also wanted to solve all the problems at once. Hence my original idea: get a mixing board, hook the whole world up to it, monitor on headphones, beam the output to the computer through an analogue cable (clueless, I know) and get busy. Now I see that having separate channels neatly arranged in a decent DAW will likely make a huge difference in my creation workflow - mixing board and musician friends be damned.

So my current plan is to buy an audio interface then a better recorder. For the interface, the jury's still out. Buying for Linux is never easy. For the recorder, I've been lusting after the Zoom H6. Too expensive for me, so I'll settle for the Zoom H5, it's a good compromise. I'd love to buy the Tascam DP-24, but that's really steep for me right now.

Thank you very, very much y'all again.

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lucm - start with #3 first. Get really good at it, to where you start receiving compliments from people from which you respect their recorded output.

Then move on to recording your own band and dealing with all the potential personal interaction issues.

Then figure out if you want to be in the middle of a whole bunch of other people's business when you sign up to record their bands.

None of that has to do with what interface to buy or which OS you might like to use.

Keep this in mind also, there are tons of people doing this nowadays. Just search your local Craigslist for audio interfaces, and you'll see tons for sale in any major city. There's a reason for that as well that's not unlike all of the people buying entry level acoustic guitars and Casio/Yamaha portable keyboards thinking they are going to be the next big thing.

I would start by trying to learn recording for the fun of it. If you get good at it, consider very carefully making the step over the line to try making money at it.

There's a really nice intro class to this from Berklee College of Music and it's FREE. This is a great class. https://www.coursera.org/course/musicproduction

Moving from fun to making money - It can, not necessarily will, take the fun out of it. There are nearly countless people that are good at home recording now. To do bands properly, you need a big enough space where it's not going to sound like crap. That's going to be much more important than the equipment that you buy.

Subscribe to TapeOp magazine - free to persons in the US. Interviews recording engineers, producers, etc. all that make a somewhat of a living at it, some much more than others (Trevor Horn was featured awhile ago).

Well enough from me. This stuff can be great fun. I make a little money at it as a live sound engineer and trainer, but I couldn't depend on it for a living.

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I can't thank you enough, rockstar_not. Your message is sage, kind and extremely valuable. I followed your advice and enrolled in the music production course, and.. on the music theory course that starts in August. laugh Gee, I love learning!

I love your music, too. You know this stuff. cool

Thank you!

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Another free, online music production course is called PLAY WITH YOUR MUSIC. It covers things like developing listening skills, mixing and adding effects.

The course is availiable at Play With Your Music


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"Buy once, cry once". grin

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Originally Posted By: Lucm
I enrolled in the music production course, and.. on the music theory course that starts in August.


Cool, I've been taking those as well Lucm. I just finished the theory one. That one is the easiest course of those provided by Berklee. I'll be taking music production when it starts on April 20th.




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Don't forget to shop Craigslist and you can also find deals at Guitar Center's used gear site: http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedGear/index.cfm

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Originally Posted By: JimFogle
Another free, online music production course is called PLAY WITH YOUR MUSIC. It covers things like developing listening skills, mixing and adding effects.

The course is availiable at Play With Your Music


Hey that looks like a good course. I'm gonna check that one out.

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Cool! I'm gonna have classmates. grin

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-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

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