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#30496 - 08/05/09 09:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] BIAB & Roland XV-2020
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
I'm trying to use a Roland XV-2020 for both BIAB MIDI playback to reduce latency and to input leads I play on my connected wind controller (EWI) back into BIAB for recording. Maybe I have the wrong expectation, but I thought that I should be able to monitor using either the XV OR BIAB PC headphone output and hear both the XV being used for song playback AND the EWI live performance. Is this not correct?

I have the XV drivers loaded on my PC, BIAB MIDI IN and OUT are set to XV, Send GS Mode to Roland is ON, XV is USB connected at the front panel, EWI connected to XV MIDI IN, but something still isn't right. I can't tell for certain if the BIAB song playback is really using the XV, because I don't hear the XV playing back BIAB songs over the XV headphone. I get EWI generated sound from the XV headphone, but I don't hear EWI in BIAB output from the PC headphone, and recording doesn't seem to be working. I hit record and play (monitoring using XV), the dialog comes up, but after I hit stop what I just played doesn't seem to show up anywhere or allow me to play it back.

So, with this setup nothing is connected to MIDI THRU off of the XV, and I'm not using any other MIDI device - just the XV front panel USB straight to PC w/EWI plugged into XV MIDI IN. I have the XV front panel selector set to PATCH. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

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#30497 - 08/05/09 09:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Start with simple.
I have a JV 1010 and it is very similar.
1. Set the dial to GM.
2. Plug in the headphones.
3. Turn the dial to the right of the LED numbers to 001.
4. Press the Volume button in, you should hear the piano patch.
5. Turn the dial to 025, push Volume, you should hear nylon guitar.

Next play a midi file (not from band in a box). You should hear it through the Roland unit if not go to windows setup audio midi and choose the usb device to ensure that your output is going to to the right place. Try midi again.

If it works outside of band in a box it will work with band in a box.

I'd have to pull out my manual to figure out how to use patch, but I don't use it. Often when using standard midi cables it is common to misunderstand them and put them in backwards if your wind controller has a standard midi cable to the Roland, then plug it in and try and and if it doesn't work start by switching the midi cable to check other possible methods, ie plug midi out in the wind controller to midi in on the roland or just keep the earphones on and try it.

There are lots of wind controller players hanging out here, I'm sure you can get some help on that issue from them.
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John Conley
Musica est vita

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#30498 - 08/05/09 10:18 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: John Conley]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
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*It may be the case that you will need a separate MIDI connect device for your computer instead of trying to use the XV's USB to MIDI. Then connect the INput of the XV to the output of that device, connect the EWI to the same device's input. Either that or consult the XV manual to see if there is a way to make its USB MIDI connect a standalone situation such that you may connect the separated controller (the EWI) direct to computer input.

Have you hooked the Audio Output (stereo) of the XV to the Line Input of your computer soundcard or sound device? If not, you won't be able to monitor the sounds of the XV correctly, nor record them to Audio when you need to make an Audio mp3 or wav file of your work.

On the MIDI connect situation, the Input in the BIAB MIDI select window should be set to whatever input that your EWI is on.

Output should be set to whatever output your XV is on.

HTH,

--Mac
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#30499 - 08/05/09 10:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: Mac]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Another piece of hardware to ponder is the Edirol UM1, it is cheap, pg music sells and supports it, and you get 1 midi out and 1 midi in on usb.

Mine works on my xp boxes and vista without a driver, just plug and play.

My chain goes from Roland-Rogers W50 keyboard, midi out to Ketron SD2 Ketron both out and in to the computer via the UM1 and the thru connector on the Ketron goes to the Roland JV1010. That way I can dial in a patch and play 2 instruments at once. Everything audio goes to a mixer with line out and line in to the computer.
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John Conley
Musica est vita

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#30500 - 08/05/09 07:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: John Conley]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
Hmm, I was under the impression that the MIDI USB interface on the XV was bidirectional. I have another MIDI interface, a MIDIMAN MIDISPORT 2x2 (1 in, 1 out just like the UM1) that I can connect if needed. I'll try some of the configurations you guys have mentioned. I don't know what a Ketron is or does, but I do have two soundbanks - both the Roland XV-2020 AND the Yamaha VL70-M. John's last post kinda confused me though. Both of my soundbanks have MIDI IN, OUT, and THRU, along with L(mono)/R audio LINE outputs, and headphone outputs. I typically connect my EWI's MIDI OUT to the soundbank MIDI IN, and take the audio output from the soundbank's LINE OUT to a direct box or amp.

Now I'm trying to hear and play (MIDI output) with a BIAB MIDI song and record it as a melody or solo track, while being able to have fast response for what I hear using the XV instead of relying on BIAB's laggy soft synths for sound generation.

My PC is pretty sparse, an older Dell laptop (Inspiron 4000) with 512 MB RAM maxed out, and a 40 GB drive. The only audio I have on it is the built-in ESS Maestro card, having only a MIC in and headphone out. It has a single USB 1.1 port, but I have a USB hub.

I plan to record audio offline using a LINE 6 digital recorder and transferring my file to the PC. Right now I'm just trying to record MIDI to the PC, so I'm not ready to spring for a Presonus Audiobox USB just yet. I have a firewire PCMCIA card and wanted the Firebox, but per the manufacturer the system requirements are well beyond what my laptop has. I know that buying a better PC would help, but I'm trying to avoid that for now. I really thought I had all of the pieces I needed just to record MIDI from my EWI into BIAB or PowerTracks, I just need to get the right connections and software config.

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#30501 - 08/05/09 09:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
From the XV-2020 .pdf manual, available online from Roland:

Quote:


A MIDI interface is required for making MIDI connections with a computer. The
MIDI interface is connected to the computer, and two MIDI cables connect the MIDI
connectors of the MIDI interface to the XV-2020’s MIDI connectors.





The USB connection on the 2020 is apparently only for editing the device, not intended for use as a MIDI interface to software like BIAB, etc.


--Mac
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#30502 - 08/05/09 10:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: Mac]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
I know that's what it says there, but it also states that "You can either use the USB cable OR MIDI cable to make a MIDI connection". I also have a friend (that hasn't answered an email in a few days) that says it works. Plus, after I loaded the XV-2020 drivers on my XP laptop, BIAB now sees and will allow you to select those drivers for both MIDI IN and OUT. Basically, it's supposed to behave like the UM1 or MIDISPORT external MIDI to USB adapter, but built in to the XV - providing another MIDI over USB interface between the PC and XV.

According to what I'm now reading, the XV has to be set to GM mode. I think that maybe part of my confusion was because I thought BIAB could input to the XV and the song playback would use my custom EWI PATCHES stored in the USER bank, and so would my EWI input performance - taking advantage of all of the breath controller data and optimizations. Now it looks more like I have to set the XV to GM mode, and what I play on the EWI is going to use a GM patch on the XV, and NOT have breath control enhancement. Oh well, to simply record MIDI into BIAB for notation purposes I guess the EWI performance monitor doesn't have to have the same voice, features, or quality that I would use for a live session.

So, I'll make those settings/changes, plug my headphone into the XV, start BIAB in record mode (w/MIDI IN & OUT set to the XV), verify that I hear BIAB playback, play something on my EWI and verify that I hear it too, and see if it records in BIAB.

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#30503 - 08/06/09 07:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
I helped configure a friends XV2020 using a GI20 interface. It works best with the GI20 as input driver & the output driver with the MIDI out of the GI20 to the MIDI in of the XV2020

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#30504 - 08/06/09 11:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: silvertones]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
Hey - I got the XV and EWI both in the XV headphones with BIAB playback using the XV's GM, connecting using only the XV's front panel USB MIDI port. I had to set Windows to use XV for MIDI, and tweek the two MIDI config sections from Preferences to make sure that XV was being used. Even though the driver was properly selected according to the MIDI driver screen (both IN & OUT), I didn't get BIAB playback from the XV until I additionally clicked on something in the MIDI options or a Roland setting. Note that even though I set Windows Audio to the XV MIDI out and could play a MIDI song through the XV, BIAB still didn't output until I made these changes in it's config - independently of the Windows settings.

I'd include a screenshot of my config if I could figure out how to do it - is that allowed in the forum?

Now I just need to fix the recording. I'm connected from the EWI to the XV's MIDI IN - should I be connecting to MIDI THRU instead? BIAB has melody on ch4, solo on ch8, and thru on ch5. I select the Melody button, hit record, and play the song and my EWI. I stop recording, and at the top of the dialog box it says I've recorded 0 (zero) notes. It still asks if I want to save, but I guess that's why nothing ever is and I can't find it.

How do I associate what I'm outputting from the EWI to the BIAB Melody, Solo, or Thru using the buttons at the top - or will it always be on thru? I think I'm almost there!

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#30505 - 08/06/09 11:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Sounds like the EWI at MIDI IN to the 2020 is not being routed thru the BIAB software. Instead, you are playing directly into the 2020 with the EWI.

Inside BIAB's MIDI window, LH side, what are your options listed as MIDI Input there? (Opts -> MIDI/Audio... )


--Mac
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#30506 - 08/06/09 12:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: Mac]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
No MIDI and Roland XV-2020 (selected). Do I need to physically connect my EWI to the XV MIDI THRU instead of MIDI IN port?

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#30507 - 08/06/09 01:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Do not connect to the Thru. All the Thru port does is take whatever MIDI data comes IN via the MIDI Input and directly connect it to come back out the Thru port. This is only needed when "Daisy Chaining" two or more MIDI synths and is only needed for the computer's MIDI Output.

Again I ask, "What selections do you see in the MIDI INput window of BIAB".

Please take the time to list exactly what you see there, all of the choices.


--Mac
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#30508 - 08/06/09 06:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: Mac]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Of course there is a difference in recording midi or recording your audio input as a wav file.
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John Conley
Musica est vita

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#30509 - 08/06/09 06:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: John Conley]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
I'm trying to record MIDI input, not audio.

"What selections do you see in the MIDI INput window of BIAB" - I only have two options listed in the LH MIDI Input Driver window:

<No MIDI/sound input>
Roland XV-2020

The latter is selected/highlighted blue, and appears in the top single line window. Whenever I have the MIDIMAN MIDISPORT 2x2 connected, I see that one too. BUT, it's not connected and I'm not using it now - so it's not in the list.

I'd include a screenshot if there was a way to do it.

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#30510 - 08/06/09 06:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
Is there maybe some setting on the XV-2020 system setup that will allow my MIDI IN from the EWI to output on the headphone jack, but NOT through the MIDI OUT connectors (USB or MIDI)? I bought it used, and have never messed with the system settings - using it only for live performances (audio out) with my EWI until now.

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#30511 - 08/06/09 07:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Yes, there may just be an internal setting in that 2020.

Right now it sounds to me like the MIDI input on the 2020 is functioning as a direct connect to the 2020's internal synth and not being sent first to the puter via USB and coming back to the synth from there.

You could easily set up the 2X2 to do this, though, and just not use the 2020USB at all.


--Mac
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#30512 - 08/07/09 09:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: Mac]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
WOOHOO! SUCCESS! I found the prob - the XV MIDI THRU was set to OFF (system parameter), so the EWI wasn't getting back into the PC. A cool drawing on page 95 of the manual shows the setup.

OK, I'm recording into BIAB now. However, when I playback what I've recorded with the BIAB song the track seems to be a fraction of a beat AHEAD of the BIAB song. I guess it's a latency setting somewhere, but please advise. I thought that what I played in time with BIAB playback would be recorded in time with it, not slightly ahead. Where do I make this adjustment, and how? I mean, I guess I want to ADD latency to the part I'm playing?

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#30513 - 08/07/09 09:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
Am I looking to adjust MIDI latency, or do I set the track offset on what I've recorded, or timeshift the melody instead? So many options, I'm a noob and don't know which one to use!!!

When I'm playing and recording my EWI with the BIAB song, it sounds dead on. It's just when I play the recorded track back with the BIAB song that they're shifted apart.

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#30514 - 08/07/09 11:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: geekdout]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
With a hardware synth, your MIDI latency should be set to 0 or very close to it.

Use of ASIO sound drivers, or the ASIO4ALL free driver for built in windows soundcards is a good thing IMO, too. But not entirely necessary if the MME audio/MIDI latency setting is done correctly. In this case, the Latency setting is determined by the ASIO control panel's buffer settings. For example, on my laptop I can set ASIO4ALL to 256 and BIAB returns a latency setting of 7mS, which is good. I can set it to 128 for about half that or less in mS, but at that point I may encounter pop/click dropouts at times, so I opt for the next higher buffer, which is virtually invisible to me as far as timing is concerned. Most people cannot detect a latency of around the 25mS mark, no matter what they declare and the internet is full of such absurd declarations, easily proven to be absurd if one knows the speed of sound and a little math. Your speaker-to-ear latency is often higher, especially onstage and nobody complains about latency in that case...


--Mac
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PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

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#30515 - 08/07/09 03:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB & Roland XV-2020 [Re: Mac]
geekdout Offline
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Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 29
The shifted difference between the BIAB song playback and the MIDI I just recorded is heard using the headphone out of the XV-2020. I didn't try to listen to it output from the PC.

Maybe this isn't a latency issue, but something else that should be corrected using track offset or timeshift. Do I adjust track offset on what I've recorded, or maybe timeshift the melody? Have you used those options, and if so, to correct what problems?

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