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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 139
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 139 |
All I could add to that is that I have used ViLabs Ravenscroft Piano (32gigs) and 64bit version, with no issues, along with a couple of instruments in Sampletank 3 (also 64bit). Maybe I was lucky, but I didn't notice anything crashing - although maybe those two are not really pushing the limits..? Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE BIAB to be native 64bit  , all I'm saying is it seems to work okay with J-bridge for me.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Lingyai, I'm in the same boat!
I did not test the limits as you have because I found that using jBridge to be a PITA (no hate mail please this is just my opinion and YMMV).
Because of BiaB is 32 bit I do no editing in BiaB. I just find a style I want, move tracks to Sonar and do all of my editing and sound selection there. I also have a lot of excellent Kontakt sounds as well as a number of other 64 bit VSTis. I would love to do a lot more work in BiaB, it would be easier in the long run for reasons that you have mentioned, with these 64 bit VSTis.
RTs are the main stream of BiaB now. They are excellent and have their place, I use them almost exclusively for clients who want to do a CD for family and friends, but I rarely use them myself. MIDI is the main stream for the rest of the music business.
Although I find BiaB very limited because it is 32 bit I also find it very useful and in fact virtually all of my songs start in BiaB. I will upgrade again but probably just the program upgrade. I wish that BiaB would put more emphasis on MIDI and 64 bit because like you I can see a much bigger market for it, again just my opinion.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 143
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 143 |
I agree that
-- the RealStyles are superb (unlike you, I do find they definitely work in some of my own stuff, in fact in some cases really push it to a next level); they are a truly unique selling proposition for PGM, deservedly so, for me they are up there in the Pantheon of Innovations alongside the likes of Melodyne, just revolutionarily great. So I will be upgrading just those for those. (Actually, I wish there were a way I could just get the new styles instead of updating the whole app, but I digress)..
but
-- yeah, midi opens up the doors exponentially in terms of what you can do with the results. So, as a tangent, I wish PGM would beef up the library of the various midi-based styles, it seems they are like the poor cousin. The apparent success / popularity of VSTIs like EZKeys shows there is demand for well-executed chord and style-based midi composition software.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,545
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,545 |
>> Yes, when j-bridged, 32 bit BIAB will let me load up and play libraries in 64 bit Kontakt – but only if the Kontakt instruments stay below the memory limits imposed by BIAB's 32-bit design.
Kontact is a 64 bit VST - it is using the memory, not jBridge or Band-in-a-Box (have a look at Band-in-a-Box memory use when you load that 9GB VST- it won't budge - because the VST is just passing it buffers of audio during playback that are then discarded by Band-in-a-Box after use.
So if it (the VST) is telling you that it is out of memory, then the 64-bit VST is out of 64 bit memory. There is no 32 bit limit for VST's jBridged to a 32 bit app like Band-in-a-Box. Perhaps you could be more specific than "out of memory", such as what app gave the message, and what did it say exactly.
If you're using a 9GB sample library, you're already over the memory limits of Win7 64-bit Basic, and it of course depends what other apps you have running, and how your VST manages memory when loading in different VST's - if it keeps them in memory, then you could easily get "out of memory"
Physical Memory Limits: Windows 7
Version Limit on X86 Limit on X64
Windows 7 Professional 4 GB 192 GB
Windows 7 Home Premium 4 GB 16 GB
Windows 7 Home Basic 4 GB 8 GB
Windows 7 Starter 2 GB N/A
The next time you get an error message about out-of-memory, open task manager and see what-memory us being used by what-program
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 143
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 143 |
>> Yes, when j-bridged, 32 bit BIAB will let me load up and play libraries in 64 bit Kontakt – but only if the Kontakt instruments stay below the memory limits imposed by BIAB's 32-bit design.
Kontact is a 64 bit VST - it is using the memory, not jBridge or Band-in-a-Box (have a look at Band-in-a-Box memory use when you load that 9GB VST- it won't budge - because the VST is just passing it buffers of audio during playback that are then discarded by Band-in-a-Box after use.
So if it (the VST) is telling you that it is out of memory, then the 64-bit VST is out of 64 bit memory. There is no 32 bit limit for VST's jBridged to a 32 bit app like Band-in-a-Box. Perhaps you could be more specific than "out of memory", such as what app gave the message, and what did it say exactly.
If you're using a 9GB sample library, you're already over the memory limits of Win7 64-bit Basic, and it of course depends what other apps you have running, and how your VST manages memory when loading in different VST's - if it keeps them in memory, then you could easily get "out of memory"
Physical Memory Limits: Windows 7
Version Limit on X86 Limit on X64
Windows 7 Professional 4 GB 192 GB
Windows 7 Home Premium 4 GB 16 GB
Windows 7 Home Basic 4 GB 8 GB
Windows 7 Starter 2 GB N/A
The next time you get an error message about out-of-memory, open task manager and see what-memory us being used by what-program Thanks Peter for your response. In this case I am using Windows 7 64 Pro ; and as I mentioned, the very same 64-bit Kontakt multi which works fine in 64-bit Sonar won't in 32-bit BIAB. Do I understand you correctly to say that this being the case, it should run from within BIAB ? Have you or your colleagues actually seen this happen in a test?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 143
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 143 |
All I could add to that is that I have used ViLabs Ravenscroft Piano (32gigs) and 64bit version, with no issues, along with a couple of instruments in Sampletank 3 (also 64bit). Maybe I was lucky, but I didn't notice anything crashing - although maybe those two are not really pushing the limits..? Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE BIAB to be native 64bit , all I'm saying is it seems to work okay with J-bridge for me. Just to clarify -- you had all 32 gb loaded and used within BIAB, and it worked fine? Or is that the total library size, only a portion (for example, with only certain .nkis loaded and / or unused samples purged) actually resident in RAM?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 69
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 69 |
Physical Memory Limits: Windows 7
That's physical memory. Aren't VSTs concerned with VIRTUAL memory? 64-bit apps can default to the old 2-GB address space. Maybe that is what has happened here. A 64-bit app should have access to 8 terabytes of virtual memory. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa384271%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
BIAB: 2023 UltraPak DAWs: StudioOne 5 Pro, Cubase 12 Pro Audio: Scarlett 18i20 OS: Win10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 Mem: 24 GB Vid: GTX-760Ti sonocrafters.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 593
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 593 |
Regarding the copy protection... I had never been a fan, but understand that an audience of musicians (being a particularly impecunious one) means the likelihood of piracy is much higher than an Accounting program for example. I have had a few cases where re-installs of my OS have chewed up my licenses, and PG Music has always been gracious and fair about restoring my lost ones.
Were this not the case, I'd be upset, but we are dealing with a highly ethical and customer-focused company.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921
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Lingyai, There is another approach to the issue of hearing a composition as intended without having to switch back and forth between programs: ReWire. Following are the beginning paragraphs of the linked Wiki entry. "ReWire is a software protocol, jointly developed by Propellerhead and Steinberg, allowing remote control and data transfer among digital audio editing and related software. Originally appearing in the ReBirth software synthesizer in 1998, the protocol has since evolved into an industry standard. "Currently used in Mac OS and Microsoft Windows 32-bit or 64-bit audio applications, ReWire enables the simultaneous transfer of up to 256 audio tracks of arbitrary resolution and 4080 channels of MIDI data. This allows, for example, the output from synthesizer software to be fed directly into a linear editor without the use of intermediate files or analog transfers. There are also provisions to remotely trigger actions, such as starting and stopping recording." I have successfully used ReWire to link Steinberg's Nuendo DAW and Propellerhead Reason 3, which was then only a soft synth and effects suite, before it became a true DAW in its own right. Most major digital audio software incorporates ReWire, but not PG Music products. I and others have been requesting it for many years, believing it to be the solution to many issues. I urge you to read the linked Wiki piece and consider whether it might address your needs. Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 69
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 69 |
I have successfully used ReWire to link Steinberg's Nuendo DAW and Propellerhead Reason 3,
But again, if you want to synthesize in a different program / space, you need to get the MIDI from one app into the second app. Rewire can synchronize the timing, but a problem here is that PGMusic seems to be moving IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION strategically. The early versions of styles were all 100% MIDI based. Now virtually all of the development is on proprietary sounds that can only be synthesized from inside the PGMusic products (RealTracks, RealDrums). In short, BIAB simply doesn't play well with other products any more. That seems an awful shame because BIAB is such a wonderful tool
BIAB: 2023 UltraPak DAWs: StudioOne 5 Pro, Cubase 12 Pro Audio: Scarlett 18i20 OS: Win10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 Mem: 24 GB Vid: GTX-760Ti sonocrafters.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 139
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 139 |
All I could add to that is that I have used ViLabs Ravenscroft Piano (32gigs) and 64bit version, with no issues, along with a couple of instruments in Sampletank 3 (also 64bit). Maybe I was lucky, but I didn't notice anything crashing - although maybe those two are not really pushing the limits..? Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE BIAB to be native 64bit , all I'm saying is it seems to work okay with J-bridge for me. Just to clarify -- you had all 32 gb loaded and used within BIAB, and it worked fine? Or is that the total library size, only a portion (for example, with only certain .nkis loaded and / or unused samples purged) actually resident in RAM? AFAIK, Ravenscroft, Sampletank and others (probably Kontakt too) with these large sample libraries actually stream from disk, they are not loaded into RAM...it is the "modelling" VSTi's that use RAM exclusively. I have not heard of a modelling VSTi that uses more than 4gig of RAM at any one time. Streaming VSTi's, well at least to my way of thinking, have, relatively, very little effect on RAM. So I would tend to agree perhaps with PG, that your "out of memory" problem could indeed be coming from somewhere else and not BIAB/J-Bridge....btw what version of J-Bridge are you using? AFAIK, you need at least 1.7b for 64bit bridging to be successful. I had some issues when I was using a lower version of J-Bridge, but once I updated it, no issues at all. Not saying you are incorrect in your experiences, all I can write about is mine, and maybe it might help "jog" something you recall about your system which may help.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583
Veteran
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Posts: 12,583 |
With Kontakt, you can watch it loading the samples. If you use Session Brass in performance mode, for example, it takes a long time to load and it loads about 2GB of data before you can use it.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921
Veteran
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I have successfully used ReWire to link Steinberg's Nuendo DAW and Propellerhead Reason 3,
But again, if you want to synthesize in a different program / space, you need to get the MIDI from one app into the second app. Rewire can synchronize the timing, but a problem here is that PGMusic seems to be moving IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION strategically. The early versions of styles were all 100% MIDI based. Now virtually all of the development is on proprietary sounds that can only be synthesized from inside the PGMusic products (RealTracks, RealDrums). In short, BIAB simply doesn't play well with other products any more. That seems an awful shame because BIAB is such a wonderful tool Pumps2, I'm not sure the "direction" is relevant. Each program does what it does best, but operate from a common transport control. It is true that one program must be designated as a Master and the other as a Slave. Most ReWire-equipped programs can act as either (although, oddly, Propellerhead's flagship product, Reason, cannot). At any rate, as I envision this, audio and MIDI would be moving from BIAB into another DAW, which itself could also record audio. That's how it worked with the Reason/Nuendo lashup. Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 49
Enthusiast
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Posts: 49 |
For the 32 vs 64 bit discussion ... it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most every piece of music related software I own has an install option for 32 or 64 bit. And in most case, you can install twice to have both versions available.
Win10Prox64/i7-6700@3.8G/32G / Studio One Pr 4.1.1
TASCAM US-16x08 / FaderPort / Fishman TriplePlay / Nektar LX61+
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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For the 32 vs 64 bit discussion ... it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most every piece of music related software I own has an install option for 32 or 64 bit. And in most case, you can install twice to have both versions available.
…Except PG Music products, which is where this conversation started.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 21
Enthusiast
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OP
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No 64 Bit for BIAB 2016 is very disappointing. I'm still not upgrading.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 49
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
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Posts: 49 |
For the 32 vs 64 bit discussion ... it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most every piece of music related software I own has an install option for 32 or 64 bit. And in most case, you can install twice to have both versions available.
…Except PG Music products, which is where this conversation started. My point was that having a 64 bit version of BiaB doesn't have to mean an end to 32 bit versions ... which some folks have expressed concern about. I'll use more words in the future
Last edited by BobF; 12/05/15 06:15 AM.
Win10Prox64/i7-6700@3.8G/32G / Studio One Pr 4.1.1
TASCAM US-16x08 / FaderPort / Fishman TriplePlay / Nektar LX61+
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Posts: 3,921
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"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Oh for goodness sake, let it go  
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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