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#116950 - 06/11/11 05:18 PM individual drum RTs
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 5298
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
how about individual drum real tracks that could be mixed and matched and also tweaked differenly?

Also, if individual drum RTs were implemented, a military style drum roll RT would be useful
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#116951 - 06/12/11 11:42 AM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: Pat Marr]
Robh Offline
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Pat you talking about taking a kick and having a separate track to create, then adding a snare ?RD tracks and such? Hmmm interesting, that would give the ability to process each drum separately. What i do for that is use Jamstix and route the output to 8 tracks and capture them as audio and go to work on them.

I do see what you are saying, interesting. I wonder how you get them to respond to each other, like say the fils on the Toms and such to respond only at the breaks. Cymbals and such.
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#116952 - 06/12/11 01:22 PM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: Robh]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 5298
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Pat you talking about taking a kick and having a separate track to create, then adding a snare ?RD tracks and such? Hmmm interesting, that would give the ability to process each drum separately. What i do for that is use Jamstix and route the output to 8 tracks and capture them as audio and go to work on them.





Yup, that's exactly what I mean

Quote:


I do see what you are saying, interesting. I wonder how you get them to respond to each other, like say the fils on the Toms and such to respond only at the breaks. Cymbals and such.




That would be up to PGMusic to make their magic.
I imagine that each drum would follow the BPM like every other RT, and they would naturally fit together seamlessly. Creating enough different styles to allow the effect you want to achieve might be asking a bit much... I'd be happy to have a few boilerplate samples for special use. But for now, I just use MIDI drums when I need a passage with less than the full drumset playing.
_________________________
You can train a dog to jump through a hoop by positive reinforcement. But if you kick him just once after he jumps through the hoop, he will probably avoid the hoop from then on. The same principle is true of song writing.

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#116953 - 06/13/11 03:24 PM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: Pat Marr]
Robh Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4027
Loc: California
Ya Know Patt, that Rd are roll 'er own to a degree. There is instructions around here somewhere as to how to make RDs. You might make some great simple tracks that could be sown together.
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#116954 - 06/13/11 07:02 PM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: Robh]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 5298
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Ya Know Patt, that Rd are roll 'er own to a degree. There is instructions around here somewhere as to how to make RDs. You might make some great simple tracks that could be sown together.




hey, good point! I had forgotten that the Real Drums CAN be user-created. I'll have to look into that.
_________________________
You can train a dog to jump through a hoop by positive reinforcement. But if you kick him just once after he jumps through the hoop, he will probably avoid the hoop from then on. The same principle is true of song writing.

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#116955 - 06/14/11 03:29 AM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: Pat Marr]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Quote:

I had forgotten that the Real Drums CAN be user-created. I'll have to look into that.




Yeah, but why? If you record separate parts of a drum kit all you're doing is duplicating what is already there with Jamstix or EZDrums.

The whole point of Real Drums is one great drummer playing the whole kit. The files were recorded and mixed as one stereo track. I'm sure PG has the masters and they can probably get some separation but I've done a lot of live recording and I've used as many as 6 mic's on a drum kit in order to have control over the kick or hi hat for example but there's still lots of bleed through. If these RD's were recorded with a final stereo mix in mind then there probably is minimal separation and they would have to rerecord all the RD's in order to give you what you want. You can't completely isolate each part of kit on a recording no matter how many mics are used but partial isolation is still useful because if you need more kick and there's some hi hat or snare bleed through you can still boost the kick and eq some of that out on the kick track.

The other problem with creating separate RD drum tracks is they could only be used in Real Band but not Biab. Biab only allows one RD track in any song but RB of course can use many. You may be able to fool Biab into using two or three RD files by renaming them and moving them into the RT folder so they show up on the RT list. That way if you clicked on "strings" or "solo" for example and clicked "add Real Track" a RD could be there and then you have two or three RD's running, that one and the regular Drum track one. I've never tried that but if you wanted to give it a shot it might work.

This idea just sounds like a whole lot of work to me without achieving a major result. The whole idea of separate parts of a drum kit on it's own track is mostly a midi thing, not a full drum kit recorded live in one take as audio. You can get some individual control even with a mixed stereo file using eq. I've created a Real Drums preset in the 10 band eq and the results are pretty dramatic over the basic RD track and no it's not just a standard smiley face. I boost the lows, some mids and the 8K highs so it shows three peaks on the graph. Play with those sliders while the drum track is playing and you'll see what I mean.

Bob
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#116956 - 06/15/11 12:35 PM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: jazzmammal]
Robh Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4027
Loc: California
Bob, all that is very true, and i also think that jamstix, and or EZ drummer is a great option, the problem is that PG has never advanced the VSTi enough to handle tempo control from the plugin. So jamstix is not an option unless you have a static midi drum track. Then i am not sure how to record all of the 8 outputs from jamstix in RB or PTPA.
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#116957 - 06/17/11 07:29 PM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: jazzmammal]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 5298
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

The whole point of Real Drums is one great drummer playing the whole kit.




good point. drum loops have been around for a long time, and I never liked using them because assembing the parts was not intuitive to me. The beauty of real drums is that the track magically happens, and it works right out of the box (pun intended)


Quote:

The other problem with creating separate RD drum tracks is they could only be used in Real Band but not Biab.




that would be a consideration for PG music, but not so much for a person wanting to make a short accent track for his own use



Quote:

This idea just sounds like a whole lot of work to me without achieving a major result. The whole idea of separate parts of a drum kit on it's own track is mostly a midi thing, not a full drum kit recorded live in one take as audio.
Bob




yeah, in retrospect, everything I would use individual tracks for is already possible with MIDI, so why reinvent the wheel? In the same way that MIDI instruments fit better in the mix when accompanied by real instruments,I suppose the occasional MIDI drum accent would tend to be less "MIDI sounding" when mixed with a cohesive Real Drum track
_________________________
You can train a dog to jump through a hoop by positive reinforcement. But if you kick him just once after he jumps through the hoop, he will probably avoid the hoop from then on. The same principle is true of song writing.

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#116958 - 06/24/11 09:23 AM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: Pat Marr]
Tommyc Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 1967
Have you ever looked at the real drums in their original files ? There are hits and some individual drums at the end of the track. I have rendered some to wave to cut and paste them where needed . I have even used RT's & RD's original files to make some songs . I bought 2010 ver update from a ebayer that wasn't a cross-grade and it didn't work for me . So I just listened to tracks and cut and pasted several songs together till I could get 2011 from PG. example > http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_6534219 Hope PG won't hate on me for this !

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#116959 - 06/25/11 12:53 AM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: jazzmammal]
jcspro40 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Ohio-USA
Quote:

This idea just sounds like a whole lot of work to me without achieving a major result. The whole idea of separate parts of a drum kit on it's own track is mostly a midi thing, not a full drum kit recorded live in one take as audio.
Bob




I disagree, it is not mostly a midi thing. Real world studios, drums are mostly tracked individually, and are recorded in one take. This way they have full control over the kit and can edit/replace as needed. Live each piece (most of the time) is miked for more control.

Now if you were referring to just the PGM products, then sorry for my misunderstanding...
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#116960 - 06/25/11 10:26 AM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: jcspro40]
Tommyc Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 1967
Page 403 pdf manual how to make your own RD's ,not for the faint of heart but detailed and on the webthang @
http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_realdrums_stylemaking.htm

ps If you can teach it to me a sentence or 2 lemme know !

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#116961 - 07/10/11 11:56 PM Re: individual drum RTs *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Tommyc]
Anonymous
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...


Edited by kabonm (07/10/11 11:58 PM)

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#116962 - 07/11/11 12:08 AM Re: individual drum RTs [Re: ]
jcspro40 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Ohio-USA
WOW! That looks as rough as creating a JS plugin in Reaper...a LOT of text that needs to be correct!

Thanks for the link!
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#116963 - 07/12/11 07:42 AM Go Away Spammer ! [Re: jcspro40]
Tommyc Offline
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Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 1967
Who the heck is San Francisco Asian Escorts ? Some porno spam ? This is the wishlist forum not tip and TRICKS !

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#116964 - 07/12/11 07:02 PM Re: Go Away Spammer ! [Re: Tommyc]
jcspro40 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Ohio-USA
Quote:

This is the wishlist forum not tip and TRICKS !




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