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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I've been using BIAB for about a year now and have been educating myself in the art of arranging, recording, and mixing music. The biggest problem I'm having is getting a recorded vocal track mixed so that it "sits" in he mix with biab tracks. In other words, how do you get your vocals to sound like they were not recorded in a different place? Does this make sense? I've experimented with recording in different locations/room sizes, using effects (ie. reverb, compression, EQ) I just wanted to get some insight from more experienced users here on the forum. Here is a link to some of my experiments: https://soundcloud.com/tmelvin-950716356
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Before you move the BIAB tracks to your DAW for recording, you have an option to remove all effects and take them dry. BIAB by default adds reverb which may be your issue. Oh, I almost missed this... WELCOME TO THE FORUM 
Last edited by jazzmandan; 12/18/15 12:11 PM.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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My experience has been that you can help the vocals sit well if they are processed by the same plugins as the RTs. So, if you have a Aux track with your reverb plugin, bus RTs and vocals to that. Also, on your master fader you can put a bus compressor plugin (SSL by Waves or UAD or something similar) and a mastering plugin (Ozone or something similar). I think this usually works quite well. Good luck. Take care. Greg
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I use Izotope's Nectar 2 which is a suite of effects just for vocals. There are scores of pre-sets that are great by themselves or can serve as jumping off points if you are of the experimental type. The reverb module is a digital emulation of the old 140 EMT plate reverb which IMO is about as good as it gets. Even though Nectar is a vocal suite I use the reverb module on nearly all of our RT and RD tracks. They have free trial downloads. It's a classy product. FWIW, my approach is to reproduce the "airy" feel that Janice's vocals have in a good room and secondly to, as you alluded to, enable the vocal to blend into the entire soundstage.
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Thanks for the replies. I am aware that reverb could be removed from biab and have been doing that. I am using Audacity DAW for now but will probably upgrade to something better. I have been recording vocals with a Tascam DR-05 using the built-in condenser mics. I'm looking to purchase a USB condenser mic to record directly to DAW.
Bud: I've been lurking here for some time and have listened to your music. I'm Impressed with what you're doing and am happy to get your input.
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TL... what kind of mic are you using to record the vox? I listened to the first 2 songs... about 10 seconds worth of the vocals in both, and they both have a dark, boxy, mid sound to them. Never mind... you answered it in the post before this one. You need to get a good recording mic.
DO NOT.... I repeat....DO NOT buy a USB condenser mic. Instead, buy a regular condenser mic and a decent USB audio interface. There is a HUGE difference in the ease of use and the quality of the results. USB mics are problematic to get set up correctly when you are using a decent DAW. Folks come into the Cakewalk music forums all the time after they have bought a USB mic trying to get them to work smoothly. Between the dual sound cards and a lack of clock sync between the two cards..... those mics are nothing but problems IF you use them in a multi-track recording situation like we do. They work good for very few people. Unless you're doing podcasting with it, get the separate interface and mic combo. It will cost a bit more, but in the end....You'll be glad you did it right.
Aside from that... I use a condenser mic, with no FX going in, as I record the vocals in Sonar. I transfer the RT's to Sonar as dry, un-effected waves, and apply only what I think they need in Sonar. Many of them remain dry and get a light brushing of reverb in the master buss where everything comes together.
I don't ever add any FX, EQ, verb, or compression just because I can. Less is more.
My vocal signal path is Rode condenser mic>> focusrite interface>> direct to a track dry. I may add some reverb and perhaps some EQ with Ozone. Usually that's done in a buss and all the vox get the same treatment.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 12/19/15 08:57 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Welcome to the forum and also introducing us to your music. I took a listen to sections of most of your Soundcloud posts. Nice music. I personally found "Day By Day"mix 3 to have the best vocal/music balance.
Regarding your mixes, I think your software/hardware setup makes getting a top notch sounding mix a bit harder to achieve in relation to what you hear from some others mixes. The Tascam DR-05 is more than adequate for digitally storing your recordings but it's primary design function is for field recording rather than studio recording and it's recording capture mic and preamps are lacking for high quality studio grade recording. Not that you can't achieve excellent results but you will have to work harder and smarter getting top quality results and even the best you achieve will be deficient to recordings made with hardware designed for studio recording. Design and physics are against you.
Even its outstanding recording capability is hampered by its lack of quality mic/line inputs and outputs.
Audacity is a good software product and I continue to use it a lot although I have higher quality DAW's. It's ease of use is invaluable. But you will find RealBand to work better with your BIAB recordings.
You can improve your recordings immediately while continuing to use the DR-05 as your recorder and Audacity as your software DAW with the purchase of an external mixer such as a Behringer or Yamaha model. I suggest these because they normally have decent Fx's, better quality preamps and input/output connectors. These two mfgs also are easy to find with single knob compressors that will enhance your vocals. You will need a decent dynamic mic or preferably a condenser mic, recording through the mixer and into the Dr-05. Both mixers and mics are easy to find and quite inexpensive used on Craigslist.
RealBand DAW that is included with your BIAB package is a more advanced DAW than Audacity and you already have it so making the move from Audacity to RealBand will cost you nothing.
I have owned many mixers, including a Presonus digital mixer, several of their interfaces, the two channel and the four channel, an 8 channel Scarlett interface but I still do most of my recording into a Tascam DP-24. I highly recommend it to you as well. It has many benefits to you. It is incredibly simple and intuitive to operate. You still can easily transfer files between the DP-24 and a Computer DAW. It is very stable. No drivers, ASIO, MME or latency issues. You get decent DAW capabilities and effects so you can mix and edit 'in the box' if you wish. You can record up to 8 tracks simultaneously. It has a built in DI. You can mix down 32 tracks. It has bounce capability and virtual tracks.
I owned a 2488 MarkII prior to the DP-24 have I've never lost a file from either unit or had either unit crash. Never..
The DP-24 operates like a mixer with a built in DR-05 for storage. Your recording process will be easier than what you face today and you would have to spend a bit more to get all that is comparable to the DP-24 in a computer DAW system. The DP-24 and DP-32 are virtually identical other than track count. I've never come close to maxing out my DP-24 and don't think the added cost of the DP-32 adds any benefit to me.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 12/19/15 09:27 AM.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Welcome to the forum and also introducing us to your music. I took a listen to sections of most of your Soundcloud posts. Nice music. I personally found "Day By Day"mix 3 to have the best vocal/music balance.
Regarding your mixes, I think your software/hardware setup makes getting a top notch sounding mix a bit harder to achieve in relation to what you hear from some others mixes. The Tascam DR-05 is more than adequate for digitally storing your recordings but it's primary design function is for field recording rather than studio recording and it's recording capture mic and preamps are lacking for high quality studio grade recording. Not that you can't achieve excellent results but you will have to work harder and smarter getting top quality results and even the best you achieve will be deficient to recordings made with hardware designed for studio recording. Design and physics are against you.
Even its outstanding recording capability is hampered by its lack of quality mic/line inputs and outputs.
Audacity is a good software product and I continue to use it a lot although I have higher quality DAW's. It's ease of use is invaluable. But you will find RealBand to work better with your BIAB recordings.
You can improve your recordings immediately while continuing to use the DR-05 as your recorder and Audacity as your software DAW with the purchase of an external mixer such as a Behringer or Yamaha model. I suggest these because they normally have decent Fx's, better quality preamps and input/output connectors. These two mfgs also are easy to find with single knob compressors that will enhance your vocals. You will need a decent dynamic mic or preferably a condenser mic, recording through the mixer and into the Dr-05. Both mixers and mics are easy to find and quite inexpensive used on Craigslist.
RealBand DAW that is included with your BIAB package is a more advanced DAW than Audacity and you already have it so making the move from Audacity to RealBand will cost you nothing.
I have owned many mixers, including a Presonus digital mixer, several of their interfaces, the two channel and the four channel, an 8 channel Scarlett interface but I still do most of my recording into a Tascam DP-24. I highly recommend it to you as well. It has many benefits to you. It is incredibly simple and intuitive to operate. You still can easily transfer files between the DP-24 and a Computer DAW. It is very stable. No drivers, ASIO, MME or latency issues. You get decent DAW capabilities and effects so you can mix and edit 'in the box' if you wish. You can record up to 8 tracks simultaneously. It has a built in DI. You can mix down 32 tracks. It has bounce capability and virtual tracks.
I owned a 2488 MarkII prior to the DP-24 have I've never lost a file from either unit or had either unit crash. Never..
The DP-24 operates like a mixer with a built in DR-05 for storage. Your recording process will be easier than what you face today and you would have to spend a bit more to get all that is comparable to the DP-24 in a computer DAW system. The DP-24 and DP-32 are virtually identical other than track count. I've never come close to maxing out my DP-24 and don't think the added cost of the DP-32 adds any benefit to me. That DP-24 is a cool little unit. You could even use it as a live mixer and record at the same time. And you're right about Tascam. Built like tanks. Regards, Bob
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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As has been noted above, you need a much better microphone. It is the first and most important step in recording a great vocal. All the fancy plugins, FX and DAWs cannot compensate for a good mic, particularly a good condenser. Then the next most important thing is a good to great mic preamp. Guitarhacker uses a Focusrite preamp, and all the Focusrite gear I've used has been great.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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As has been noted above, you need a much better microphone. It is the first and most important step in recording a great vocal. All the fancy plugins, FX and DAWs cannot compensate for a good mic, particularly a good condenser. Then the next most important thing is a good to great mic preamp. Guitarhacker uses a Focusrite preamp, and all the Focusrite gear I've used has been great.
Just to clarify, I don't use a stand alone Focusrite pre. The preamps I use are part of the front end circuitry in the Focusrite line of audio interfaces. They all come standard with high quality preamps, ready to go. A good interface, such as the Focusrite line of gear....I use the Saffire, which has nice preamps built in, is essentially the heart of your studio. Everything you record in, or listen to through the studio, will have to pass through that interface. That's why I always recommend getting the best one you can afford. If you can't afford a good one.... save up until you can. With a good quality interface that has preamps built in, like my Saffire, you don't even need to spend a dime on a mixer board unless you're mixing a bunch of folks at the same time. I haven't used a mixer in close to 10 years now. Listen to my music.... all the live guitars and vocals are straight into the interface.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 12/21/15 03:37 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Find a cheap but good condenser mike on sale like the $39 MXL recently mentioned here. Pair it with a cheap but good XLR/USB interface, the Blue Icicle ($40) for example, and you are in business.
J&B
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I just scored an AT2035, Scarlett Solo, pop filter, tabletop mic stand and cable on EBay for $150.00 w/ free shipping. Hope it all works.
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I just scored an AT2035, Scarlett Solo, pop filter, tabletop mic stand and cable on EBay for $150.00 w/ free shipping. Hope it all works. That should do a fine job for you getting started. Get the most recent ASIO driver update from the Focusrite website.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 12/24/15 04:21 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
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