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#130856 - 10/09/11 11:46 AM I need drum tips please
Sundance Offline
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Registered: 05/29/08
Posts: 2258
If you have tips on making the RD's "fit" a song beyond keeping the basic beat with a few fills please share. I'd like to get better at making the drums sound less generic and more song specific.

Thank you.
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Sundance

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#130857 - 10/09/11 01:30 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: Sundance]
Rachael Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1578
Based on your number of posts, I assume you already know these but...

- The placement of part markers determines fills. Use fewer markers if you want fewer fills.

- Some drum kits have variations indicated by the ^ (ex: Disco^). You can specify a variation for your song or by Bar Settings.

- If you use RealBand, cut and paste of RDs to your heart's desire.

Hope this helps

R

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#130858 - 10/09/11 01:53 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: Sundance]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 4687
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

If you have tips on making the RD's "fit" a song beyond keeping the basic beat with a few fills please share. I'd like to get better at making the drums sound less generic and more song specific.

Thank you.




hi Josie! Hope all is well with you!
Here's what I do when I need song-specific drum parts:

1) I get as close as possible with a real track or midi drum

2) then I use my midi keyboard and set the midi channel to 10 so it works as a drum controller (Start a new track for this so you don't change the existing drum part)

3) as the song plays, I tap the keys to add hits wherever I need them. You don't have to be real specific... you can use the same key for all the hits... the important thing is to get the timing right

4) then you can drag the hits to the correct note/drum

5) if you don't want to drag the notes to the correct drum, the easiest thing is to pick one drum, for example , the kick drum, and play all its parts all the way through... then find each of the other drums (snare, tom, cymbals etc) and enter them one at a time on different tracks. (all of the tracks still need to be channel 10)


I used to spend HOURS searching for a drum part that was close to what I wanted... this approach is something you can do to get in the ballpark fairly quickly.
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Win7x64 home, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Behringer Xenyx 1622FX Mixer, MAudio Oxygen 8 kbd, Roland XV-3080, TCHELICON Voiceworks, BIAB 2014 build 380 + RB 2014 build 3

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#130859 - 10/10/11 02:27 AM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: Sundance]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 6091
Loc: Australia
Hi Josie,

When I put my drum tracks together, I have a couple of procedures I adopt.

Firstly, I listen to the BIAB-generated drum track and make a note of any riffs or breaks that I particularly like. If these do not occur in appropriate places in the music, I copy and paste them to the locations that I want them at. Drums are really easy to work with when it comes to joining audio segments.

Secondly, I volume shape the track to highlight the bits I want at different points in the music. The image below shows what one of my typical volume envelopes (in green) looks like after I've used a volume increase to highlight riffs/breaks.



Hope this offers some food for thought
Noel
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#130860 - 10/10/11 05:48 AM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: Noel96]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 6584
Loc: Hamlin NY
Hi Josie,

I have found that to make a drum track more song specific I use midi drums. I can place individual drum hits and/or parts anywhere I want. I can also create my own riffs. If you have a midi controller or drum pad you can also play your parts. The final results sound wise of course depends on how good your drum patches are. An inexpensive GM set will not sound as good as a more expensive sound set.

I hope this helps and good luck.
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It has taken me many years but I have finally figured out what I want to be...............younger!

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#130861 - 10/10/11 09:20 AM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: MarioD]
Robh Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 3990
Loc: California
I use a combo of both midi and RDs. I find sometimes Rds nail it perfectly, and sometimes not so. For cover songs I prefer to use midi drums from better midi files. I run them thru Jamstix, and then sometimes separate the drums to 8 outputs, so I can process them better.

I rfind that sometimes i want to get a more personal take on a cover tune, so i use RDs, and work with them to get a sound i like.
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#130862 - 10/11/11 01:44 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: Robh]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 4687
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
other cool tools included with RB:

1) insert midi drum track
EDIT > FILL TRACK WITH MIDI DRUM PATTERN >

You can pick a pattern and add it to the song as primary, secondary or tertiary drum track,, then edit as needed



2) drum grid editor.
ACTION > DRUM GRID EDITOR

It's very intuitive to use, and in a few minutes you can create a groove and insert it directly into the song. And since it's MIDI, you can edit it.

Its especially useful if you just want to add one recurring accent to an existing drum track. For example, I recently made a cover of a song that had a signature kick drum motif that I couldn't find in any real drums. So I used the closest RD, then created a drum grid that added only the part I needed to get the signature sound.
It was very easy, and it worked.

If you create a drum grid you want to use again, you can save it, and recall it using EDIT > FILL TRACK WITH DRUM PATTERN
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Win7x64 home, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Behringer Xenyx 1622FX Mixer, MAudio Oxygen 8 kbd, Roland XV-3080, TCHELICON Voiceworks, BIAB 2014 build 380 + RB 2014 build 3

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#130863 - 10/11/11 02:16 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: Pat Marr]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Post your address and I'll get out the saw. I have about 30 drum sticks and only need 2 for my grandson to play with, however I should part with those and make him play something else. Perhaps a piccolo for I can't really hear it.

I can burn the part that's not the tip.
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John Conley
Musica est vita

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#130864 - 10/11/11 07:52 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: John Conley]
Sundance Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/08
Posts: 2258
John Conley you are a hoot. LOL!

I've discovered I have limited versions of Drumcore and Linplug drums that came with Tracktion. And there truly are some great drum tracks and fills in RB - just sometimes a bit overwhelming to find and sometimes still not exactly what you want. I was concerned about adding midi with the RD's but I'm going to try it.

Thanks everybody!
_________________________
Sundance

Josie-Youtube

Josie-Soundcloud

Josie & Bob on iTunes

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#130865 - 10/11/11 08:06 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: Sundance]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I'm a great horned if you think I'm a hoot.

When we were kids my dad built a fireplace and chimney from stone. The next year we woke up to see a snowy owl sitting on the grate. Dad put it in a big potatoe sack and let it go.

The bats were far more entertaining. I pretended it was normal while the siblings and Mom went under the table.

I was 14, and there was a tennis court across the road. It turned out to be game set and match, though it made quite a smear on the picture window when I tried to play volley with it.

We men have to take care of stuff like bears and big trout, caribou, musk oxen and mice. The latter are hardest. My wife sees one every hour. The traps remain empty.

Owls are one of the only birds I can hear now.

Turns out my hearing test were all messed up, I was told if I hear anything press the button. Over 2k I was pressing it but there was no tone, just a click. We figured that out a few weeks back and they say we can now fix things. Probably not.

I need just 2k to 3k jacked, at the end about 95db or I would need ear protection. So the ceiling fans are now really loud and the tires on the road drive me nuts. Eh bien.

It is what it is.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#130866 - 10/11/11 08:09 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: John Conley]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
4k and up btw, is useless. No amount of amplification brings it back, but the tone generators they use have a click. I can hear the click from 1.9 to 3 something then that goes.

I still laugh at the setting where they grab noise around 5k and drop it so I can hear it.
Cacophony comes to mind.

Charlie Chaplin would want us to sing Smile now. I love that song. Along with OP's Hymn.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#130867 - 10/11/11 10:09 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: John Conley]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 10680
Loc: Mid-Hudson Valley, New York an...
When I take a BIAB song to SONAR for some finishing touches, I keep the MIDI drum track as well as the RealDrums track. Since my stiff is usually Brazilian jazz, I strip out all the instruments of the MIDI drum kit except possibly things like a triangle or bongo. Then I add cymbal crashes at key places, assuming the RealDrums are not quite enough. Sometimes I'll add a short tom-tom fill, things like that. With not much added, you can really punch up a drum part.
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"Brazilian Wish" CD 2-minute preview. Studio recordings of songs composed in Band in a Box.

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#130868 - 10/11/11 10:37 PM Re: I need drum tips please [Re: Matt Finley]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 4687
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

When I take a BIAB song to SONAR for some finishing touches, I keep the MIDI drum track as well as the RealDrums track. Since my stiff is usually Brazilian jazz, I strip out all the instruments of the MIDI drum kit except possibly things like a triangle or bongo. Then I add cymbal crashes at key places, assuming the RealDrums are not quite enough. Sometimes I'll add a short tom-tom fill, things like that. With not much added, you can really punch up a drum part.




I've heard people comment that the real tracks/real drums and the MIDI stuff don't sound like they're in the same room. But to my ears, Matt, songs that do what you're doing have more of a dimensional sound. That slight variance in "location" is a GOOD thing where drums are concerned... especially if you enhance the effect by panning the separate drums to different sides of the drum set.
_________________________
Win7x64 home, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Behringer Xenyx 1622FX Mixer, MAudio Oxygen 8 kbd, Roland XV-3080, TCHELICON Voiceworks, BIAB 2014 build 380 + RB 2014 build 3

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