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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi,
I have 2012 version of BB. Just the bare basics which came with it. Except for a Forte soft synth downloaded from PG music. Been thinking of getting a sound module like the ketron sd 2 or the roland sound canvass. People say they greatly enhance the sound of midi music. Would getting some real tracks be as good? Which would be better? One or the other or both? The only real tracks I would need would be a cello, viola, grand piano & maybe an alto sax. Can real tracks be purchased separately or do you need to buy a whole package of stuff not wanted?
Thanks
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That;'s great you want to upgrade the sound. Just be careful not to confuse audio with MIDI. The RealTracks are audio and are available in groups, by style, as well as a full package. They will not play your MIDI melody or soloist tracks, however; you would still hear that via Coyote Forte. If you want to upgrade the sound of the MIDI, you not only have choices of a hardware synth like the two you mentioned, but also software synths ranging from free to as much as you want to pay. What is most important to you?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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In addition to the good information above, the RealTracks are probably likely to give you a more realistic result than MIDI will overall (and please, I'm not starting a MIDI vs RealTracks war - I use both)
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Russ,
What do you require of BIAB? If you can give us a bit of an outline as to how you use it, it will help with making suggestions.
Kind regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Personally, I use both Real Tracks and MIDI. If I was forced to give up one or the other, I'd give up the Real Tracks and keep the MIDI.But my needs may not be the same as yours. BTW, the Ketron SD2 is an excellent sound module especially for a General MIDI sound set. It has the best sounding GM set of all the dozen sound modules I have and better than the soft synths I've heard that have a GM bank. Now why would I keep MIDI? MIDI is thousands of times more editable than audio (Real Tracks included). And 'editability' equals creativity and flexibility. And don't believe the BS about RTs sounding better than MIDI - virtually every recording produced in Nashville, LA, NOLA and elsewhere, every song you hear on the radio that has been made in the last 30 years has had MIDI embedded in it's DNA. There are bad sounding MIDI synths and there are good ones. Don't confuse the bad ones with the good. There are things I do every day with MIDI that are impossible to do with audio. If you have a similar sounding recording studio, the same mics, the same console, the same instruments, the same amps, and the same talent you can do a few, but not all of the things listed below: - Insert song specific licks. Many popular recordings have little melody, simple chords but depend on song specific licks (motifs or figures). Without them you don't have the song. You can insert them in MIDI without changing the instrument sound
- Same for rhythmic kicks (breaks, shots) that occur in specific songs
- Some songs require more or less snare drum, more cowbell, less cymbal or whatever. Easy to do in MIDI
- You may want to change drum instruments, for example a ride to the ride bell or cowbell on a Latin/Rock song. Easy in MIDI, impossible in audio
- How about changing instruments? In a particular song, that piano part might sound better as a Rhodes, Clav, or Bright piano - a few clicks away in MIDI
- My Edirol SD-90 synth has many different clean guitar sounds. I can change a guitar to a Tele (front or rear pickup), Strat, LP, 335, funk, or something else.
- Expressive devices like crescendo, diminuendo, accelerando, ritardando, and fermata without annoying audio artifacts are a snap with MIDI
- Don't want that roll when changing from an A to a B substyl? Copy and paste a non roll measure - no problem
- Want the A in one BiaB style and the B in another but the instruments don't match? F5 and change the instruments of the second style to match the first
- and these are only a few
Now don't get me wrong, I like the Real Tracks and think there is genius and/or magic in them. When they are right, they are right, but when they are only partially right, I can't make them right - not even with Melodyne.There are advantages to both RTs and MIDI, and I like having both tools in my audio tool box, but if I had to live with only one, it would definitely be MIDI. But like I said, your needs may be different from mine so I can't make a recommendation, only tell you what is important to me. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Hi,
I have 2012 version of BB. Just the bare basics which came with it. Except for a Forte soft synth downloaded from PG music. Been thinking of getting a sound module like the ketron sd 2 or the roland sound canvass. People say they greatly enhance the sound of midi music. Would getting some real tracks be as good? Which would be better? One or the other or both? The only real tracks I would need would be a cello, viola, grand piano & maybe an alto sax. Can real tracks be purchased separately or do you need to buy a whole package of stuff not wanted?
Thanks Ahhhh and so beings the search for the best sound. I prefer to use a combination of real tracks and midi as well as live playing. But to answer your questions........... You can in fact buy the individual real track packs. Browse this page: http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.all.php?os=winfind the ones you like and get them. They will save you a bunch of time when you do not need a specific melody played. If you want a cello part to play a specific melody, you will either need to hire a cello player and record them or use a decent synth with a reasonably realistic patch or better yet, a sampled cello. The better samples will cost you more than a patch player, but, the difference in quality is apparent from the beginning. For about the price of the sound module, you could alternatively pick up a copy of Kontakt. It is one of the better synths on the market and comes in on the low end of the ones the professionals use for film and TV scoring among other things. It uses samples and comes with an entire orchestral compliment of samples and there are tons of 3rd party sample libraries made for it that are available at decent prices. It leaves TTS and most all the other "included in the package" synths in the dust when it comes to versatility and quality. Using Kontakt and one of it's cello or piano samples, you can easily get the right sound to the melody you want played in the song.... use real tracks for the background parts and it will amaze you at how real it sounds. Check it out. >>>> http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5/
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/07/16 05:48 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Although I do use RTs on occasion I mostly use MIDI for the same reasons as Notes. As Notes indicated there is a lot you can do with MIDI, however it does have a learning curve. Fortunately almost all of what you learn can be applied to any MIDI sound source, that is one set of instructions for many different hard or soft synths. Plus this is not a steep learning curve.
My experience says that you can get excellent results with either of the sound modules you mentioned for the cellos, violas, and grand piano. Straight out of BiaB they may sound dull but with a little MIDI manipulation they can sound as good as RTs IMHO plus you can make them play what you want when you want with the sound you want very easily.
I would either use RTs for the Alto sax or a much more expensive MIDI sound source. Saxes are impossible to realistically emulate with inexpensive sound sources. I had to buy Samplemodeling's saxes and a wind controller to get realistic sounding saxes. A good keyboard MIDI controller with an expression pedal would get the same results except that I do not play the keys very well.
A MIDI rule of thumb is the more money you spend on a sound source the more realistic your sounds will be. This includes both hard and soft synths. Having said that your two choices are a perfect way to get into MIDI.
I agree with the other posters that it is not an either or choice when it comes to MIDI and RTs. Use the best tool that fits the job.
{edit} I see that Herb was writing at the same time! Kontakt is my go to MIDI sound source. If you can buy that do it. You will be much happier in the long run.
Last edited by MarioD; 02/07/16 04:56 AM.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi russ66,
In 2012 every Band-in-a-Box (Biab) package included some midi styles, the Coyote WT soft synth and at least one RealBand combo. So you have everything to need to discover using all the different types of accessories available to Band-in-a-Box at that time. As others have indicated it boils down to do you prefer using midi or audio.
I strongly suggest that, at the very least, you update the Band-in-a-Box program to the current edition (2016 for Windows or 2015 for Mac). Then you can take advantage of new audio sources such as loops and UserTracks.
Both Usertracks and loops are audio so you will find there is a great amount of audio available for use without additional investment.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Russ, a few questions and a comment for you:
1. How well do you understand midi?
2. What's your budget?
3. How much do you know about controllers?
The thing is Notes is a pro at this. He's an excellent player and plays reeds, guitar and keys. Maybe more, not sure. He has controllers and knows how to use them.
I kinda think that's not you Russ because if it were you wouldn't be asking your question.
High level midi work is not for older nooby's. It's for young cats who learned it when they had the time which is the reason for the RT's. RT's get you close and sound great without tons of midi frustration. But if you want note for note perfection then midi is the only way other than hiring players.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Yes, MIDI like any instrumet takes a learning curve. But you don't have to be young to learn it. I started in my 40s.
Learning MIDI was much, much easier than learning guitar. And listening to your creations as you learn is fun.
Since you posed the question as an either/or situation, the choice has to be MIDI or else you are stuck with whatever someone else played. You may as well listen to the radio or spotify.
MIDI lets you unleash your creativity and make YOUR music instead of someone else's music.
Of course, it's best to have both and use either RTs, MIDI or both. You can't have too many tools in your musical tool box.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey, thanks to all of you for the replies. Here's my situation. Yes, I'm still a newbie even tho I've had BB for 3 years now. I'm 71 yrs. old. when I started with this I barely knew the diff. between a track & a channel. I don't understand a lot about midi. Midi, Schmidi! I have however learned how to put in songs readily with some basic edits & tweeks to enhance it. I don't play keyboard & don't understand controllers. I bought BB as an accompaniment tool (for which it is hyped). I've always played acoustic guitar & sang & was intrigued when I heard others using digital music for backing tacks. I have about 90 songs in BB now and use it for singing & playing guitar live @ small venue settings. Mostly care facilities & the like. I have a Bose L1 compact & have recently bought a Bose T1 tone match & really like sound it gives me for my voice & guitar. I am now thinking to enhance the sound of the backing tracks. The songs I sing are ballads, the sweet oldies songs & classics (stuff older people would like) some gospel & some Celtic. Maybe some soft rock. I only use a couple of styles. Smooth & easy going but not jazz. The instruments I choose are grand piano, fretless electric bass. standard drum kit, (witch is RT) a cello or viola for strings, piano or electric jazz guitar for melody although not in a jazz style. Been thinking about putting in some loops in some songs with a sax for the solo but don't like the sound of the midi sax in BB. This is what got me thinking about getting a sound module for better sounding instruments. I do no recording, except my voice on the audio track to add a little background harmony to my live singing voice on some songs. I'm a simple guy with a simple need here. Just would like a little better sounding instruments. That little Ketron sounds interesting. This has been lengthy, but I hope it gives a clear picture of who I am, what I do & what I need. What say you guys?
russ66
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Been thinking about putting in some loops in some songs with a sax for the solo but don't like the sound of the midi sax in BB. This is what got me thinking about getting a sound module for better sounding instruments. ....... What say you guys?
russ66 Just use Real Tracks. Simple. Sax real tracks in this tune: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8255563And this one: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8085316And this one: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8235970they work superbly
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Russ
After describing your situation and experiences, I agree with Herb's comment above. Unless you require specific riffs and special music phrases, Realtracks will give you great sounds, fantastic realism with minimum effort.
Trev
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey, thanks to all of you for the replies. Here's my situation. Yes, I'm still a newbie even tho I've had BB for 3 years now. I'm 71 yrs. old. when I started with this I barely knew the diff. between a track & a channel. I don't understand a lot about midi. Midi, Schmidi! I have however learned how to put in songs readily with some basic edits & tweeks to enhance it. I don't play keyboard & don't understand controllers. I bought BB as an accompaniment tool (for which it is hyped). I've always played acoustic guitar & sang & was intrigued when I heard others using digital music for backing tacks. I have about 90 songs in BB now and use it for singing & playing guitar live @ small venue settings. Mostly care facilities & the like. I have a Bose L1 compact & have recently bought a Bose T1 tone match & really like sound it gives me for my voice & guitar. I am now thinking to enhance the sound of the backing tracks. The songs I sing are ballads, the sweet oldies songs & classics (stuff older people would like) some gospel & some Celtic. Maybe some soft rock. I only use a couple of styles. Smooth & easy going but not jazz. The instruments I choose are grand piano, fretless electric bass. standard drum kit, (witch is RT) a cello or viola for strings, piano or electric jazz guitar for melody although not in a jazz style. Been thinking about putting in some loops in some songs with a sax for the solo but don't like the sound of the midi sax in BB. This is what got me thinking about getting a sound module for better sounding instruments. I do no recording, except my voice on the audio track to add a little background harmony to my live singing voice on some songs. I'm a simple guy with a simple need here. Just would like a little better sounding instruments. That little Ketron sounds interesting. This has been lengthy, but I hope it gives a clear picture of who I am, what I do & what I need. What say you guys?
russ66
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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From reading your post, my impression of who you are, what you do & what you need tells me to recommend an external sound module. They are the least hassle, are not obsoleted by computer operating system changes and upgrades. Stay configured once they are configured. Are straightforward to learn and solid as a rock.
Once you get comfortable with using midi, you will enjoy it and will recognize the increase in quality of your backing tracks. Since you use BIAB for backing tracks, that means you do covers. Covers many times have specific riffs, instruments, solos, etc that cannot easily be obtained with RealTracks. They are extremely easy with midi.
Don't underbuy because at this point in time you do not understand. Once you begin working with midi, the understanding comes rather quickly.
Once you begin to understand midi, you will also understand that your sound module or soft synth if you decide to go that way was an investment in your music.
Therefore, you should approach your purchase as an investment. The better quality, higher featured modules hold their value very well.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 02/08/16 02:35 PM.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks to you all, I think I'll get a couple sets of RT for now. @ $29 per set ain't bad. I need to ask more questions of you guys from time to time, even if they are stupid questions I might be embarrassed to ask. In the few years I've had BB I have learned a lot from where I've started & BB has made me a better musician & reader of music.
russ66
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Thanks to you all, I think I'll get a couple sets of RT for now. @ $29 per set ain't bad. I need to ask more questions of you guys from time to time, even if they are stupid questions I might be embarrassed to ask. In the few years I've had BB I have learned a lot from where I've started & BB has made me a better musician & reader of music.
russ66 The only stupid question is the one that is not asked! No one here has ever made fun of a question. I should know as I have asked a lot of them!
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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You say you have BIAB 2012 and also are headed toward 1 - 2 $29 sets of Real Tracks.
Jim Fogle said,"I strongly suggest that, at the very least, you update the Band-in-a-Box program to the current edition (2016 for Windows or 2015 for Mac). Then you can take advantage of new audio sources such as loops and UserTracks."
This is a great suggestion because 2016 will get you a tone more real tracks with the upgrade. That's what I did. It's likely that the cost of the upgrade could be less that if you were to purchase the same "included" sets individually. You'd have to research that a little.
I'm also exploring the Kontact route since there are many 3rd party free samples that can be loaded into it.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Russ, I'm just a kid compared to you. I was born in 1945...
This is the key question. Do you really need those song specific hooks that you hear on records? If yes, you really want those then you have to learn midi. If it's no, you can live without them then the Real Tracks are awesome, no muss, no fuss.
Here's something else. If you like song specific backing tracks you can buy a hundred or so of them from several professional studio websites for about the same price as the Biab Ultra Pak. Just sayin. You can also go on Youtube and search for the name of a song and the words "backing tracks". You will be amazed at what you can find and you can download them for free.
But to all of us here, this isn't just that it's also a very interesting hobby, it's fun to roll your own.
Let us know what you think of this and I'll have some more comments for you.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Love the "Roll your own" analogy !!
BIAB 2017 Everything, RB 2017
Lenovo All-in-One. i5, 8gb Ram, 1 TB SHDD, Windows 10
Presonus AudioBox,Studio One 3, Behringer Xenyx302,
M-Audio Axiom 61, Samson Graphite 49.
Lenove Flex 15, i3,Windows 10
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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