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#33843 - 09/06/09 01:00 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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yup and I'll be darned if i can find either
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#33844 - 09/06/09 01:03 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
Wyndham Offline
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I've come into this thread late but it brings up several question about how BIAB functions. Does BIAB/RB generate it's file and call the parts of RTs when it needs it or does the program store the completed file with RTs in RAM?
If it has to call the RTs then maybe a solid state drive might be something that could be implemented in the future as a cache drive for the program to use the RTs and take the load off the hard drive. I've been out of building systems for awhile so I may have it all wrong.
Wyndham

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#33845 - 09/06/09 02:00 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Wyndham]
Mac Offline
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Quote:

I've come into this thread late but it brings up several question about how BIAB functions. Does BIAB/RB generate it's file and call the parts of RTs when it needs it or does the program store the completed file with RTs in RAM?




Not Ram, but the generated RT track is stored in C:\Temp for playback.

Quote:

If it has to call the RTs then maybe a solid state drive might be something that could be implemented in the future as a cache drive for the program to use the RTs and take the load off the hard drive. I've been out of building systems for awhile so I may have it all wrong.
Wyndham




I specify solid state for certain tasks on the day job, such as high g or high vibration or temp environments, doubt if there'd be enough gain in other factors to make it worth the while for this use.


--Mac
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#33846 - 09/06/09 04:40 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
Wyndham Offline
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It might be a power supply issue. Is your Lappy a 110 with a transformer then plug in to the Laptop? I had a Samson portable 2 channel mixer that had a transformer go out, there might be a way to check the output voltage. Maybe Mac knows.
Wyndham

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#33847 - 09/06/09 06:02 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Wyndham]
silvertones Offline
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When I load a *.seq file that is all RT does it load these into the temp folder? I didn't see that it did. I've been trying to find a free program that lets you assign a portion of RAM as another drive.
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#33848 - 09/06/09 07:57 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
Mac Offline
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Everything Realband or PTW does once a .seq file is opened takes place on either C:\Temp as the default unless you've changed that to use a second hard drive for streaming purposes only, not really needed unless using a multichannel soundcard and using all the channels on it.


--Mac
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#33849 - 09/07/09 07:56 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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I've tried everything.I even opened a NEW file with nothing on it and hit record. It's even jittery there. Most of the time it's sort of smooth. Other times it's almost as if the scroll line stumbles over the audio graphic and then catches up. I would think that if there's any streaming issue it would be noticed in the audio. Audio's perfect. As I said I'm not going to obsess on it. What's your thoughts on refresh rate. It's locked to 60Hz
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#33850 - 09/07/09 08:27 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
Lawrie Offline
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Refresh rate is only really evidenced by screen flicker - as you have an LCD monitor it is pretty much irrelevant.

I seem to recall asking if you'd updated your video drivers?
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#33851 - 09/07/09 08:58 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Lawrie]
Mac Offline
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Long thread, hard to remember now, but--

Did you ever check your IRQ table, specifically to look for shares with Video and/or soundcard?

I still suspect that issue here, having seen it too many times in the field. Have always found that getting the soundcard on its own IRQ solves stuttering audio and sometimes this kind of video stuttering. Of course, the laptop IRQs are hardwired so there's little chance of changing that, but sometimes choosing a different aftermarket soundcard type can be effective. For example, a pcmcia slot that shares with video is bad, but replacing the sound device with a USB type can often be the cure.


--Mac
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#33852 - 09/07/09 09:39 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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Yes drivers are up to date although the last update was 2004. Found an update for BIOS.
Video card, Audigy & usb sharing the same IRQ. The internal card is on a different IRQ. I uninstalled the USB sound card & the Audigy with no real change.
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#33853 - 09/07/09 11:07 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
Wyndham Offline
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If you have other programs like cakewalk or some of the free ones like reaper or audacity, do the same problems occur when working with those programs with large audio files. Just trying to find a common thread to the problem.
I remember a similar problem in another program several years ago and I believe it was an irq conflict on my desktop. There are several areas that are suspect but hopefully there's only one that the problem.
Wyndham

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#33854 - 09/07/09 12:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Wyndham]
Mac Offline
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In decades of troubleshooting various systems, I can probably count on the fingers of my hands the number of times a problem was caused by more than one thing at the same time.

And most of those were "catastrophic" failures anyway. Lightning, surge, that sort of thing.

Occam's razor says it is caused by only one thing, too.

The real skillset involves the detective work that consists mostly of *process of elimination*, *isolation* and *critical thinking*.

And avoiding doing the same thing over and over. Because you've already proved it ain't that...


--Mac
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#33855 - 09/07/09 12:54 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Wyndham]
silvertones Offline
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Sonar, Dart, Adobe Audition are not as smooth as they were on a CRT but they never seem to stumble over the waveform graphics.Read above about the IRQs
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#33856 - 09/07/09 05:05 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
Mac Offline
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I did read about the IRQs.

Um, I assume that Audigy is a USB device. If it is a pcmcia device, that may be a problem, but I don't think it would be enough to cause the screen stutter unless you are also using that USB port for something high bandwidth...


Easy enough to isolate that one, dismount USB devices, disable temporarily in Device Mgr and test.


--Mac
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#33857 - 09/07/09 05:23 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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Audidgy is PCMCIA
Extigy is USB
RealTech is onboard

I uninstalled the Extigy & Audidgy. There was no change. I reinstalled everything but put the Audidgy in the bottom slot. It now doesn't share IRQ with the Video Card. It shares with the RealTech. Usb shares with the Video Card.
Still no change.
2more things to try tomorrow. I acquired a free working CRT. I'm gonna try that.
Last my internal 160 G drive only has 49G left. I'm going to offload PGMusic products from it and try running from just the 160G drive they just sent.
After that F... it. I quit.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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#33858 - 09/07/09 05:25 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
Wyndham Offline
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Registered: 01/07/08
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Mac, the more I think about this thread and the 3 last remain brain cells of mine wake up, I kinda think there was an issue with a usb hub setup that gave problems years back, it was something about conecting thru a hub for several USB devices.
Also John, have you checked to see if you have usb driver 2.0, I had problems once when I still had usb 1.1 Hope something here sticks on the wall. Later Wyndham

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#33859 - 09/07/09 06:17 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: rharv]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
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Quote:

The jumpy scroller is a sign of system stress, as Silvertones found out.
I was going to suggest just playing a one track file to se if it went smooth.
Taking some of the load off the system, and freeing up resources alleviated the problem.
Good job troubleshooting it




Worth trying again,... eliminate tracks, shutdown processes, see if it improves.
Video, especially shared RAM type, suffers under system stress. Its better than the audio suffering. I think Jeff made it this way. Shared IRQ's and such will contibute, but I think it's a symptom of the computer being stressed on either the HD in/out or other system resource sacrifices.
Just a thought
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#33860 - 09/07/09 06:24 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: rharv]
Mac Offline
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It is a Toshiba.

Some do audio well, some don't.

That's judging from problems seen on several different forums for several different products over the years.

I hear the newer models of Toshiba laptops are doing much better of late, nothing is forever, so don't hold it against the brand or anything, although I'm sure some will.


--Mac
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#33861 - 09/08/09 07:24 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
silvertones Offline
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I have dismounted the USB Extigy, Dismounted the PCMCIA Audidgy, Disabled the network cards, reduced all processes.
It'll start fine sometimes and all of a sudden like an old man it'll stumble and start stuttering.
The good thing is that the audio never stutters even with the output buffers at 500. I run them at 1000 to be safe.
The Chord sheet never stumbles.
When I play I only have two lines of the track view showing with the chord sheet on the bottom right & the words ( comments ) on the bottom left.
I just started a song, everything is enabled now,and it immediatly stuttered. Stopping for a quarter not and then jumping ahead. Stop, jump. Restarted the song played fine for about 30 measures and back to jumping. Towards then end it was stopping for over half the measure. Close your eyes though and the music was perfect. PS the Audidgy,is no longer sharing IRQ with the Vid.
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John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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#33862 - 09/08/09 07:50 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
silvertones Offline
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Now I'm getting to the bottom of this. I think Jeff needs to comment hear. I've said that any given song plays perfectly in Sonar, Audition & Dart. The way I tested was to take a sturring song and save as individual wav files and then load them in one at a time.Never thought to load the individual wav files into RB. Well I did and guess what? I've never seen the thing scroll so smoothly. I played the song from end to end 6 times without even a slight hiccup. Everything is active. I'm networked to the other computer. All processes turned on even stuff I don't need. Reloaded the SEQ version of the song--stutter. No real time effects on either version. Figure this one out. There must be a difference the way RB handles imported tracks vs loading SEQ files.
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John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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