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#144224 - 12/30/11 06:50 PM [RealBand] Chord Wizard Problem
Stratcat32 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 11
Here's my problem:

Sometimes after using the Chord Wizard to chart a song (mp3 audio file), when I click "Okay to send to RB" the chord window opens as usual, but the bars will be yellow for say 95 bars but the rest of the song will be gray and the audio file is truncated.

I just did a 115 bar song and RB truncated it at 95 bars. Even if I fiddle with the bar settings and get it to show all 115 bars as yellow, RB has already cut off the end of the audio file for some reason.

Anyone else seeing this?

It doesn't happen all the time. I've been using RealBand 2011 for about a year and I recall it happening when I first started using it, but then the problem seemed to go away. Now it's back.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Any thoughts?

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#144225 - 12/30/11 06:57 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Stratcat32]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
before you send the song to the ACW, increase the number of bars in the little text box that says how long the song is.

If your song is longer than that number, it will truncate everything after that bar. After you've gotten the chords and tempo map and gone back to the RB environment, you can reduce the number of bars to what you actually need.

Don't ask how I know this. If you are experiencing uncontrolled rage, let's just say "I understand"


GOT-ME-TOO-O-METER
0___________/_100

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#144226 - 12/30/11 07:04 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Pat Marr]
Stratcat32 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 11
Thanks Pat,

I'm over the rage. (lol)

I tried your suggestion of telling RB that the song was 115 bars before clicking the ACW but it still truncated my song. That's when I decided to check the forum to see if anyone else was having the problem.

Maybe I just didn't do it right. I'll keep fiddling with it.

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#144227 - 12/30/11 08:06 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Stratcat32]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18801
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Do you have most recent update for 2011?
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Make your sound your own!

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#144228 - 12/30/11 11:59 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Stratcat32]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I tried your suggestion of telling RB that the song was 115 bars before clicking the ACW but it still truncated my song. That's when I decided to check the forum to see if anyone else was having the problem.

Maybe I just didn't do it right. I'll keep fiddling with it.





are you sure you changed the right thing? I previously said it was a text box, but in RB it is a button, located beside the GENERATE button in approximately the middle of the screen on the toolbar. The tempo box is beside it... I have changed that in the past thinkiong I was changing the length of the song.

you may need to set this to MORE than 115 before starting ACW

Also, once it truncates, try starting over with a new file... THEN change the length of the song, THEN open file with chords

If that doesn't work, I'm out of ideas. When I had this problem, the procedure above solved it every time.

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#144229 - 12/31/11 07:45 AM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Pat Marr]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18801
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Consolidate the track before using ACW

Select the top selection if RB asks about 'bar 1' adjustment after sending back
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#144230 - 12/31/11 01:12 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: rharv]
Stratcat32 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 11
Hey Guys,

Thanks for the suggestions.

Here's what I've learned so far:

I re-charted a song I did a couple of days ago that was 124 bars long. This time it worked just fine. No truncating the song.

Then I charted a totally different song that was 100 bars long and ACW worked fine like it has been doing 99% of the time.

The problem only seems to occur with certain audio files.

****************

Pat: I've tried several times to use your method being careful to use the correct box to enter a bar length. (The box just left of the generate button and setting it to 150 bars. Way more than enough.) Each time RB totally ignores my setting and truncates the song. Not sure how you got that trick to work.

rharv: I will try importing the audio file into a track using the tracks window and then switch to the "Chord window" and use ACW to work on the "pre existing audio" option. I have never done it that way, (see below) but it might be a way to solve this problem with audio files that RB doesn't seem to like.

*****************


Just to clarify things:
I'm charting cover tunes from mp3's in totally new (blank) files. I'm starting with no pre-existing tracks. Just clicking "new" to get a blank RB file. Clicking ACW and choosing "Open Audio file" and then selecting my mp3 (or wav file) and letting ACW figure out the chords and correct tempo.

Most of the time this works great. Only a couple of times has it shown this strange behavior.

The reason this is a problem is because (as many of you know) you need the original audio file in sync with your chord chart in order to go through the song and clean up the chords ACW suggests. If the audio file gets truncated, it makes it harder to clean up any funky chord changes that may occur ofter that point.

**********

My work around ideas so far:

1. Manually import the audio file to a separate track and then line it up with the original truncated audio file. Then mute the truncated file. (I think that's what I did the first time this happened.)

2. Switch to BiaB and try charting the song there. (I haven't tried this yet. But I've never seen the problem working with BiaB.)

3. Try a different audio file of the song you're having trouble with.

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#144231 - 12/31/11 02:59 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Stratcat32]
multitracker Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 272
Loc: Hibbing, MN
Not sure if this is what's happening here, but there are known problems with tempo changes and truncating tracks. The ACW automatically inserts a tempo change, at least in the first bar, even if you do not change the overall tempo the ACW comes up with. When back in the tracks window and regenerating tracks, truncating and other strange things occur, and there is not yet a fix for this.

Terry
_________________________
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.

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#144232 - 12/31/11 03:10 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: multitracker]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18801
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Peter says using a new blank track does fix the generating issue with tempo changes.
I found selecting the top selection (in dealing with the first bar adjustment right after 'send to RB' is envoked) has cures some weird issues I had during testing.
I was also told by Jeff Y (who writes RB) that I may need to use Track - Consolidate audio region.

As for Stratcat32's problem, I never use that method; I always open the song in RB first, then go to ACW and use the option to run the song thru the ACW instead of opening a new file.
Maybe a slight change in workflow will solve the issue for you for now.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#144233 - 12/31/11 03:48 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: rharv]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Consolidate the track before using ACW

Select the top selection if RB asks about 'bar 1' adjustment after sending back




If I understand Bob correctly here, he is talking about the question of how to address the part of the song before the place where you "set bar 1"

When you send the song back to RB, the ACW asks if you want to:

1) insert silence to make a full 1st bar
2) delete the 1st bar from the song
3) combine the 1st and 2nd bar into as single bar
4) keep the 1st bar but use a time signature change
5) keep the 1st bar but use a tempo change

in my testing here today, every time I tell ACW to "insert silence to make a full 1st bar" it truncates the audio. When I pick the default (keep the 1st bar but use a time signature change" ) it doesn't truncate

with option 1, ACW may be inserting silence at the wrong end of the audio, effectively truncating it by the same number of bars that exist before bar 1

play around with this and see if you find a solution there

(Keep us posted)

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#144234 - 12/31/11 04:09 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Pat Marr]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18801
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Interesting; when I had multiple tracks (some very chopped up into sections) I found the first selection to solve the issue I had. My issue was that a couple tracks didn't follow the new tempo map, but using the top selection fixed it.
Your problem is different.

It does indeed sound like this choice is the key, depending on the situation during use.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#144235 - 12/31/11 04:55 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: rharv]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Interesting; when I had multiple tracks (some very chopped up into sections) I found the first selection to solve the issue I had. My issue was that a couple tracks didn't follow the new tempo map, but using the top selection fixed it.
Your problem is different.

It does indeed sound like this choice is the key, depending on the situation during use.




I had noticed in the past that how I answered this question affected whether or not the truncation occurred. And like you, I have had best results in the past with the 1st option. Today's testing was the 1st time I got better results with another of the options.

but it does seem like the truncation problem is connected to the way one answers this question.. and it may vary from file to file for some reason we don't yet know.


--TWILIGHT-ZONE-O-METER--
0______/_nenenene nenenene

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#144236 - 12/31/11 05:58 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: rharv]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Peter says using a new blank track does fix the generating issue with tempo changes.
I found selecting the top selection (in dealing with the first bar adjustment right after 'send to RB' is envoked) has cures some weird issues I had during testing.
I was also told by Jeff Y (who writes RB) that I may need to use Track - Consolidate audio region.

As for Stratcat32's problem, I never use that method; I always open the song in RB first, then go to ACW and use the option to run the song thru the ACW instead of opening a new file.
Maybe a slight change in workflow will solve the issue for you for now.





Ah, you added more information! Thanks for the heads up about track-consolidate audio region.

regarding the issue of whether it is better to import the audio 1st then send it to ACW, or "open audio with chords", in a perfect world, it ought to work both ways.

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#144237 - 12/31/11 06:07 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Pat Marr]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
hmmm... I just went back to the same song I've been experimenting with all day... this time I hilited the track and consolidated the audio region first.

After tempo mapping (actually I didn't adjust any tempos, I just set bar 1 and sent it back to RB) I answered with the first option and it still truncated the audio at the same place it has all day.

All else being the same, choosing the default answer didn't truncate.

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#144238 - 12/31/11 06:43 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Pat Marr]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18801
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I notice you say the 'default' option .. top selection isn't the default here. I have to select it.
Remember this was with a file using more than one audio track, so it may react differently. Like you said previously; "it may vary from file to file for some reason we don't yet know."
I was just offering my experience with it recently.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#144239 - 12/31/11 07:20 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: rharv]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

I notice you say the 'default' option .. top selection isn't the default here. I have to select it.




it isn't the default here either.. the 4th option is the default here. I was trying to say that in my experiment, choosing the 4th option did NOT truncate, but choosing the first option did.

Quote:

Remember this was with a file using more than one audio track, so it may react differently. Like you said previously; "it may vary from file to file for some reason we don't yet know."
I was just offering my experience with it recently.




exactly... I think its important when there seem to be different things happening for people to report what's happening on their machines. It's certainly not a matter of contesting another person's experience, but rather it's a matter of trial and error to see what happens when.

Part of what I've learned from this exchange is that my original solution is probably not what solved the problem for me in the first place

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#144240 - 12/31/11 09:01 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: Pat Marr]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18801
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Yep, needs further observation to decipher
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#144241 - 01/02/12 01:45 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: rharv]
multitracker Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 272
Loc: Hibbing, MN
Quote:

Peter says using a new blank track does fix the generating issue with tempo changes.





I hope Peter does not consider this as a fix, but rather a work-around until they can really fix it. Indeed if you generate the entire track from start to finish on a new, blank track, the generation will occur without the artifacts. But this is not ideal and you end up with having to cut or copy and paste from the new track into your original, then deleting the new track. You lose some flexibility and spend more time than should be necessary. Regenerating did not work this way with tempo changes until the introduction of 2011. I would really like to see this get fixed properly in RB, if possible.

Terry
_________________________
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.

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#144242 - 01/02/12 02:19 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: multitracker]
MitchC Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 581
+1 Terry. I use tempo changes a lot for ritard endings, and just altering the BPM by 1 at the start of chorus etc. then back down to make the track 'breathe' a bit. Regen is a hassle to do via the blank track work-around. Hoping it gets fixed ASAP as well.

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#144243 - 01/02/12 03:18 PM [RealBand] Re: Chord Wizard Problem [Re: MitchC]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18801
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I hope it get fixed too, it has been around for a couple versions now. Just wanted to make sure the work-around was known for now.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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