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The software didn't really quit working, it became obsolete as people abandoned it in favor of the bigger, newer and 'better' versions. A high end XP soft synth program that won't work on version 7,8 or 10, still works perfectly in XP.
XP machines are still available and easy to find. They are dirt cheap, many are given away free. Components are still abundant and easily obtained. High end components are now available at more than reasonable cost. Connect your midi instrument to your XP machine just as you always have and you get the same sound just as you always have; the same as Notes gets from his external equipment.
No external module was ever sold that comes close to the quantity sold of XP machines. Therefore, the availability of parts and replacement units cannot match the availability and ability to repair or replace an XP unit. A $0.75 proprietary chip that a replacement cannot be located can turn an obsolete external module into useless trash. Notes' machines are full of cheap but proprietary chips and obsolete components. The manufacturer may or may not have the capability to repair or replace any of Notes units.
At this point in time, an XP machine can be maintained and stay functional indefinitely. The sound they produce can be captured by any audio recording device.
Notes has taken care of and maintained his equipment and assumes it will continue to operate as it always has. That is not the case. The longer a piece does continue to operate, the greater the likelihood that if and when it does fail, there will no longer be a repair or replacement available. Currently, all components of an XP machine are abundant and readily available.
Lastly, Notes is limited to the quantity and quality of the sounds of his external modules. He can stack modules and has more sounds available to him than he likely will ever need. However, compare the quantity of total sounds available to him from his external modules with the much greater number of software synths that were made to operate on XP machines. It's no contest in quantity or overall quality. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands of software synths that will not operate on new OS computers. But they work flawlessly on the OS in which they were designed to.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 05/17/16 04:53 AM.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Some good points Charlie, but following your reasoning, for the sounds I currently have available I should have a the minimum, one each of the following computers: - Motorola OS 6 or 7 Mac
- Power PC through OSX Mac
- Intel OSX Mac
- Win3.1 PC
- Win95 PC
- WinXP PC
- Win10 PC
on my workbench. And I would have to mix and match the sounds from each of these machines together, not to mention synchronize them. And even in the simplest sense, if I wanted to use a great but discontinued soft synth on XP and also use a spiffy new synth sound only available on Win10, syncing them together is a major PITA. And how many computers from the mid 1980s still are running? My Atari, Win DOS5/Win3.1, Motorola Mac, Win 95, Win 98, Power PC Mac, and an XP or two computers have all died. I have 1980s synths with zero moving parts that still work today. My oldest computer is a 2002 XP ThinkPad. Synths last longer than computers. - - - And yes, I have thousands of sounds I'll never use. I'll probably never use the helicopter, demon from hell, sitar, bottle blow, air pad, sinosound rave, cascade, shattered, and so on (but who knows). They are fine sounds, but not for me right now. My XV5050 alone has well over a thousand sounds in it. I use about 30 of them. I bought it used for a great price, but even if I bought it new, it would be worth it for those 30 sounds. And who knows, I might want to use more if I change the kind of music I'm playing. But yes, there will probably be thousands of sounds I'll never use. On the other hand, I don't play every song in a music book, I don't visit every website on the Internet, I don't listen to every station on my radio, if I watched TV, I'd never watch all the cable channels, I don't watch every video from Netflix, I don't read every article on my e-newspaper, I don't use all the settings on the microwave, I don't use every app on my computers (or tablet or phone), I don't drive on every road my tax money built, I don't even use every feature in BiaB, etc. I don't look at it as things I'm paying for and not using. I look at the things I use. If there are enough features on a device to make it worth my money, I buy it and don't worry about the things that I don't use. Those are simply extra features for another customer, or perhaps some day I'll find a use for them. I buy things for the benefit they bring to me, not the extra features I don't use. And when the soft synths and XP computers are all but gone (like Win3.1 computers and Motorola Macs), my hardware synths will probably still be working. They seem to be very rugged beasts and have outlasted a number of computers already. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I have BIAB 2014 and have a question about getting realistic sound output on my songs. I am using Coyote and wonder if there is any better way to get realistic instrument sounds. What equipment do I need to add to my setup? I'm using a laptop w/Win 10 Having good gear is a plus....and using a synth that can play samples is good too. I rarely use midi any more. It's generally audio with an occasional sampled midi synth sound. First: select the BB styles that use real tracks. They sound better than the 100% midi styles Second: open the file with real band and let it create all real tracks. Third: If you need more than that, use sampled sounds and the appropriate synth to play them. This would be my choice if I needed something to play a specific melodic line in a song. Of course, you need to play the parts on a keyboard to do that. Basic keyboard skills will get it done.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/18/16 05:43 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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While its true that RTs sound better than MIDI, they sound only slightly better than a good MIDI synth.
However MIDI can be edited to coax more expression that is appropriate to the song you are making, and expression is much more important than tone.
Expression more important than tone?
Definitely.
Just think of the scores of singers that have poor voices but yet are or were extremely popular: Dr. John, Stevie Nicks, John Lennon, Blossom Dearie, Leon Redbone, Bob Dylan, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on.
And what is good tone anyway? The two most popular jazz tenor saxophonists of the 20th century both played the same model sax. But if you take a non-musician and play a recording from John Coltrane and Stan Getz the overwhelming majority of normal listeners will say they don't even play the same instrument - not a different make and model, but an entirely different instrument.
Tone is overrated and expression is underrated to musicians, because to the vast majority of listeners it's just the opposite.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I agree with all you say Notes. You would not necessarily need a separate machine for each OS. Many software programs were cross platform so one machine could house several different software programs from older OS systems.
My point was simply that these older soft synths are not 'lost' and can still be available if someone wanted them. Also, as things in computing are currently, an XP system doesn't have to die. Every component of XP systems is replaceable, thus repairable. An offline, dedicated unit can be as reliable as external hardware.
My point was that if I had a very expensive, top of the line XP compatible software synth and library, a dedicated CPU may be worth having just for the soft synth and library.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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You have good points.
However my old synths work fine in the rack without another computer. They are virtually maintenance free, turn on in a few seconds, and if I ever need a replacement, I see them on Ebay all the time.
It's much easier for me to hook up another synth in the MIDI branched chain than another computer.
I suppose I could run an XP computer forever, if a desktop, but the repairs (I can't do that myself) would possibly be too expensive.
I have a 2002 ThinkPad that gave me over 10 years service doing one-nighters, bouncing on stage, riding in the van, constantly changing temperatures, and running flawlessly every night.
A few years ago it developed a problem. It still works fine, but the laptop screen has to be in certain positions to see the display. I took it in, the Lenovo repairman said IBM quit making those parts years ago. If I buy a broken machine of the same model, I could probably fix it. I told him 'No thanks'.
BTW, the other 2002 ThinkPad is still working flawlessly (I run two on stage). I replaced the defective one with a newer ThinkPad.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Your stage setup sounds very stable and reliable. I'm referring more to producing synth sounds for a studio recording setup than for live stage use. If I had purchased $700 NI Komplete package in 2008-09 era for my XP and knew the product inside/out, there is no reason it could not be performing the same function for me today even though my BIAB/RB 2016 is running off a Kompact incompatible Windows 10 desktop. Having an XP machine would make perfect sense to me. BTW, your thinkpad could probably still be used daily in your studio by connecting a external monitor to the VGA output. 
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 05/20/16 07:13 AM.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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I'm sure the 2002 ThinkPad would work with an external monitor, but with the single core Pentium III processor, it takes too long to boot or do anything complicated. If playing soft synth sounds, I'm afraid the latency would be too much for me. And when playing with a half dozen or so synths at the same time, latency becomes a big issue. Most hardware synths run at 5 or 6 ms latency. There is no consistency with softsynths. One could be a tenth of a second, another almost half a second, and there is no way I'm going to tweak the tracks, ppm by ppm until the both play at the same time. Multiply that by six. On stage I use the machines for 2 things, play the backing tracks I create myself, or display the words, music notation or both. With over 550 songs in our 'book', the newer ones aren't memorized yet, so I need to glance at the music and/or words. And for those songs we haven't played in a long time, that first glance is usually enough to jog the memory. And also, in the middle of a song, even while you may be singing or playing the sax/guitar/windsynth someone might come up and request a "Happy Birthday" or another song, jerking me out of 'the zone'. A few glances at the music can help me find my place in the backing track and get back to the business of performing. I never understood why people come up in the middle of a song to say something. I guess they don't understand it's like coming up to the podium while someone is in the middle of a paragraph in his/her speech and asking a question. We forgive them for they know not what they do Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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"I never understood why people come up in the middle of a song to say something." Agreed. That drives me nuts too! I can only do 35 things at once. When people talk to you, that equals 36 things. At that point I'm doomed .
Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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I'll go OT here to relate one of my favorite stories. The world renowned pianist Paul Smith used to perform at a Velvet Turtle right down the street from me in a small lounge. He was right in the middle of a smoking solo of Tunisia when this woman is walking all scrunched over trying to keep her head out of his spotlight with a paper in her hand. As she gets close to him he motions to his bass player and stops cold right in the middle of his solo. She was obviously startled. He smiles and says pleasantly "What would you like to hear, dear?" He looks at the paper and says, "Sure we can do that", gives her another big smile and picks right up with this killer solo.
I thought that was so cool. He actually embarrassed the crap out of her without obviously doing it, you know?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Wow! I could never do that. I could be kind and stop playing, but never pick up where I left off. But then, I play with backing tracks that I create myself. Perhaps with a real band I could resume, but it would definitely take me in a different direction (perhaps better, perhaps worse).
Back on topic.
More realistic sound got me thinking.
All sounds are real.
I play saxophone, it's my main instrument, and has been for decades. I was first in the all-state band every year I was in school, and for a tenor player, that is quite a feat - it goes to the alto player by default.
I have two great tenor saxes and one alto with the voice of an angel.
But I probably play the WX5/VL70m MIDI sax on stage as much as I do the acoustic ones.
Why?
Sometimes the synth sax sound is simply more appropriate for the song.
Just as a pianist might switch for the Rhodes when he/she wants that sound, I switch to one of the synth sax sounds.
Do you mean acoustic instead of realistic?
Once a sound is recorded, it is no longer acoustic anyway.
The criticisms of MIDI are very similar to those aimed at electric guitars way back when.
And the saxophone itself was dissed when it first came out. German bands among others refused to use it, and considered it an inferior clarinet-ish sounding instrument.
There is a time for acoustic, a time for acoustic electric, and a time for electronic. The trick is picking the right tool for the right job at the appropriate time.
And since virtually every recording that has made it to one of the Billboard charts in the past 30 years has MIDI deeply embedded into its DNA (Per Alan Parsons and Craig Anderton), there is obviously nothing wrong with MIDI.
The A-List pros know.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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The man (Paul Smith) has class, Bob!
Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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Excellent post, Notes! I've always wondered the same. I've heard some pretty crappy MIDI voices even on my Tyros 5 (although rare) but after they are placed in the mix, they fit like an expensive pair of leather gloves. They seem to sound natural. I think Yamaha knows this, and goes to great pains to design voices that sound good inside and outside the mix. Then there's effects, which can make or break a MIDI instrument's sound...but I digress . - Lee
Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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A few excerpts:
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