Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#150414 - 02/12/12 12:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] More than 4 chords per measure
bjbear Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 13
I need to have explained how to enter chords in a given measure on the 3rd beat, the 4th beat and the and of the 4th beat. Can someone help me with this? Thanks.

Top
#150415 - 02/12/12 12:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: bjbear]
Danna Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 204
Believe it is "chord comma chord"

chord,chord

Top
#150416 - 02/12/12 01:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Danna]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17267
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Chord comma chord in the second half of cell will get you the chord on beat 3 and beat four. For the 'and' of four, you need one more step.

Go to the first beat of the next measure and do what is called a push of the value of an eighth note. You can do this with the carat character, like this: ^D7. Or you can right-click in the bar, choose 'chord settings', and you will see the choices for push. A push plays the chord earlier, so a push on beat one makes it play on the and of four in the prior measure.

You should check out Help, Index, Pushes and Help, Index, Chord Entry.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

Top
#150417 - 02/12/12 04:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Matt Finley]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4380
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
I had that problem, and that is why about 10 years ago I invented EXPANDED styles.

The styles are written to be EXPANDED. In other words, each numbered Cell in BiaB becomes a half measure instead of a whole measure. So you can put 8 chords in a measure. Also (and this is more common) you can put a chord on a beat AND the upbeat before the very same beat.

They play well in your EXPANDED song, but since each cell is now only a half measure (2 beats in 4/4 time) you do have to double the tempo. So if your song is to be played at mm=120, double it to 240, EXPAND the song, and it will play perfectly.

To listen to some of my EXPANDED styles, go to http://www.nortonmusic.com/styledemo.html

Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#150418 - 02/12/12 07:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Notes Norton]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17267
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
There are two issues going on here. The topic name is, "More than 4 chords per measure".

Notes has presented an excellent solution. There is another less elegant way to work around it that sometimes works, by treating two measures as one and adjusting the tempo and style.

But that isn't needed in the example given by bjbear.

Yes, you are limited to 4 chords per bar in BIAB, but using the push, the chord that is to sound on the 'and' of four appears in the next bar and counts toward the maximum four chords allowed in that next bar.

What you cannot do, in your example, is also have a chord on beat one of the following bar. For that, you need the Expanded styles or some workaround fudging.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

Top
#150419 - 02/12/12 10:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Matt Finley]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I have waited for a long time for a list of 5 or 6 songs that REQUIRE this. But alas it never happens. I'm sure somewhere this, like the bar limit, keeps people up nights. So far, that's not me.

Don't click here for why I don't understand why you need them. Of course, I have other songs I can do in the meantime.

Usually I'm running things too slow I guess. Circus march??? (I hate that genre, but that's because I have trouble with the speed...on horn. I guess I should have learned it better instead I waited for the first lesson when I was 52.

Soldier on. The Empire is fine. Long live the Queen, but she already did.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

Top
#150420 - 02/13/12 02:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: John Conley]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
Quote:

I have waited for a long time for a list of 5 or 6 songs that REQUIRE this. But alas it never happens. I'm sure somewhere this, like the bar limit, keeps people up nights. So far, that's not me.




Having 8 chords per bar would be very useful for writing specific arrangments (or eigth notes patterns) on the bass line, for example. Having more than 256 bars per song would be still more useful to me; When working on new repertoires, I use extensively BIAB to transcribe chords using the audio chord wizard. I must transcribe medleys very often, and very often this kind of song have more than 256 bars. That forces me to use two BIAB files for a single song, wich is a mess (you must open twice the same file in ACW, you can't print both parts on the same sheet, etc, etc...)


Edited by Cerio (02/13/12 07:22 AM)

Top
#150421 - 02/13/12 03:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Matt Finley]
bjbear Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 13
Thank you so much for your help. My experience with that is that then your down beat of 1 is non exsistant. But I will try that again.

Top
#150422 - 02/13/12 03:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Notes Norton]
bjbear Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 13
Thank you so very much. I only have 2 questions for you. What does the speed change do to the drum pattern being used? Also, does this only work with the traditional BIB styles, or will it work with the realband styles as well?

Top
#150423 - 02/13/12 07:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: bjbear]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10448
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:

I have waited for a long time for a list of 5 or 6 songs that REQUIRE this.



John -

The problem usually isn't that you need 8 chord changes per bar, but that you need a chord change on the "and" of a beat and on the immediately following beat. Still 4 chord changes in the bar, but the chord change on the "and" allows for additional syncopation.

If we even had a "pull" to complement the "push", so that I could delay the chord by half a beat, that would probably solve 90% of the problem.

Of course, to me, the best solution would be to have 8th note resolution, because then notation would look right.

A lot of church hymns have chord changes on the "and" with a different chord on the next beat. One that comes immediately to mind is "Take My Hand" by Thomas A Dorsey. Here's the refrain:




There are others, and as a church musician, this is important to me.

For now, I'll usually just do a hold while I play the "and" chord on the keyboard and then come back in on the downbeat.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web-http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#150424 - 02/13/12 08:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: jford]
bjbear Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 13
I of course agree with you about not needing 8chords per measure. Just that it was easier to explain that way. You are correct, I am needing to put a chord on the and of 4 and it was suggested that I just do a push on the 1 of the next measure, which creates an entirely different problem in that there then is no chord on the downbeat of the 1. The other suggestion is to use expand and I haven't been able to make that work, as the drums also double in speed. I guess I just won't do that song. grrrr. lol.

Top
#150425 - 02/15/12 12:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: bjbear]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4380
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
bjbear, my EXPANDED styles will solve your problem.

John, We've done a number of fake books, and the songs that require a chord on a beat and the upbeat before that very same beat are plentiful. Without looking in the books, a few examples of songs that need EXPANDED styles immediately come to mind,
  • Jailhouse Rock (Elvis P),
  • You Really Got Me (Kinks),
  • Sunshine Of Your Love (Cream),
  • Don't Get Around Much Anymore (Ellington),
  • Old Deuteronomy (from Cats),
  • Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend (Marilyn Monroe),
  • Mamma Mia (ABBA),
  • The River Of Creams (Billy Joel),
  • Masquerade (from Phantom),
  • I Only Want To Be With You (Dusty Springfield),
  • Problems (Everly Brothers),
  • Mercy Mercy Mercy (Cannonball Adderly),
  • Yesterdays (Jerome Kern & Otto Harbach),
  • All Around The World (Lisa Stansfield),
  • Frankenstein (Edgar Winter),
  • After The Love Has Gone (Earth Wind & Fire),
  • Baby What A Big Surprise (Chicago),
  • Sir Duke (Stevie Wonder),
  • Dock Of the Bay (Otis Redding),
  • and so on and so on.

You asked for a list, John. Here it is.

Having a chord on the beat and on the upbeat before that very same beat is extremely common in Rock, Jazz and Country music songs. This is the main reason why I invented EXPANDED styles in the first place. Plus I've had a large number of songs that need more than 4 chords per measure, and a couple that actually need all 8.

My EXPANDED styles simply let you do songs that would be impossible to do with the 'normal' styles published by PG and Norton. My styles do not replace any BiaB styles, the add to the available songs you can do and therefore enhance and support the BiaB experience.

If you need them and think they are worth the money, by all means enjoy them, if you don't need them then feel free to ignore them.

Notes


Edited by Notes Norton (02/15/12 12:09 PM)
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#150426 - 02/15/12 09:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Notes Norton]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13450
Yes, as is pointed out above, you can achieve this effect by doubling the tempo (increase by 100%), and then reducing tempo by 50% on the next bar.

You can do this for any MIDI style, and all you need is an expanded version of the style.

You can easily make the expanded style, via a menu command in the StyleMaker (this was introduced about 3 years ago). This works for any MIDI style (not for RealTracks styles though)

For example, if you have MyStyle, and you want an expanded version of it:

1. Open the stylemaker (Ctrl-Shift-F9 or press the StyleMaker button
2. Choose Stylemaker Menu Option Style-Expand Style
- that's it, you then save the style as MyStyleX or whatever.

Then, on any bar that you want 8 chords,

1. change to MyStyleX
2. Increase tempo by 100%

on the next bar
1. Change style back to MyStyle
2. Decrease tempo by 50%

(this only works for MIDI style)
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

Top
#150427 - 02/16/12 09:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Notes Norton]
bjbear Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 13
I understand completely and thank you. However, you made the statement that this does not work for realband styles. Unfortunately, that is what I use exclusively. Oh well.

Top
#150428 - 02/16/12 04:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: PeterGannon]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
Peter, can I ask if there's any plan of implementing the "More than 4 chords per bar" feature in the future?

Top
#150429 - 02/16/12 06:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Cerio]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10448
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:

You can easily make the expanded style, via a menu command in the StyleMaker (this was introduced about 3 years ago).




Wow, I completely missed (or forgot) this. I guess you really do learn something new every day.

Thanks, Peter!
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web-http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#150430 - 02/16/12 07:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: jford]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17267
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
First I've seen it, too.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

Top
#150431 - 02/16/12 08:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Matt Finley]
MitchC Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 581
So we don't need to buy 'Notes' expanded styles ? Is that what I'm hearing ? Will definately check this out ! Thanks Peter !

Top
#150432 - 02/16/12 10:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: MitchC]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
John, I do play, and use band in a box. I have played that tune. I realize Band in a Box does not hit every note the way some want. Neither do the musicians in the bands I play in. The example you gave does baffle me.

Are you telling me you want band in a box to play metronomically each piece, with every note on something like the page of a hymnal smacked just as written? That's my music notation software, I can even make it click to help counting.

If you make an mp3 out of the passage does it sound wrong? Who is bothered by it. I am trying to imagine a 'modern' church, my version of that ends about 1969, but there was an organ, a vibraphone, a piano and a 30 member choir. I was often on the piano. (the bench)

Now in that case the pianist stayed off the organ, and I tried my best to put in a fatter sound. Sometimes I was out for a bar or two.

I have no idea how big an issue this has become I guess. I see it all the time. It bothers this person, or that one. Now, I can assure you that in none of the hundreds of music books here, that I have never seen a tune where I need more than 4 chords. And if I did, it would be 3 seconds to get around it.

I drop notes all the time, and chords. In fact I was taught to drop a lot of tied notes, that's for breathing.
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

Top
#150433 - 02/17/12 09:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: John Conley]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10448
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I don't want to argue - you asked for an example and I provided one. I can find more, but I doubt I'll spend the time doing that.

The song I posted is also played slowly, so that one chord matters. It's not a matter of having more than 4 chords per bar (generally), it's a matter of being able to have a chord on the off-beat and a new chord on the very next beat. I think Bob Norton posted a number of songs where that would be the case.

Sure, I can get around it...that's not the point. The point is that songs do have chord changes on the off beat and often resolve to the chord on the beat. I've seen it in a number of choir pieces right before they modulate to a new key.

I suspect that this what most people are asking for and would mostly be happy with.

Keep 4 chords, but maybe allow a "pull" (to delay a chord by half a beat), versus a "push", and I'll be a happy man.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web-http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


PG Music News
Tutorials - How to Install Band-in-a-Box® for Mac

Here are some tutorial videos we've created to help you install your Band-in-a-Box® purchase.

Our Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, and PlusPAK are delivered as a download, on DVD, or on a 32GB USB flash drive.

Installing Band-in-a-Box® from DVD: click here to watch.

Installing Band-in-a-Box® from the 32GB flash drive: click here to watch.
Your flash drive shipment also includes a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!

The Band-in-a-Box® UltraPAK is available as a download or shipped on a portable hard drive. When you receive the hard drive version, there are a few different installation options:

Option #1 - Run Band-in-a-Box® directly from the USB drive only: click here to watch.

Option #2 - Install Band-in-a-Box® on your computer hard drive, but leave the RealTracks and RealDrums on the USB hard drive: click here to watch.

Option #3 - Install Band-in-a-Box® AND RealTracks on your computer hard drive: click here to watch.

All of these videos are available on our YouTube Channel or Videos support page.

Video - Making A Song in Band-in-a-Box® 2018

Ever wonder how to create a song in Band-in-a-Box®? We start off with the basics in our latest video for Band-in-a-Box® 2018!

Windows users: click here | Mac users: click here

RealTracks Patch Update for Windows Users

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest RealTracks update patch (519) here.

This patch includes some RealTracks audio updates we have made since the release of Band-in-a-Box 2018. 2018 users should be sure to download the latest Band-in-a-Box 2018 update patch (519), as that patch includes the bulk of the fixes for RealTracks released with 2018. This is a larger download than typical because it updates the Vocal Oohs and Aahs RealTracks audio files. There is more information and Audiophile patches available here.

Summary of RealTracks Audio updates:
Improved: There were small issues with the tuning of several Bass styles. This has been fixed for both the original mix and the direct input mix. This affects the following RealTracks:
- Bass, Acoustic, AmericanaSlow16thsByron Ev16 060
- Bass, Acoustic, AmericanaSlow128Byron Sw 040
- Bass, Acoustic, RockabillySwingByron Sw 190
- Bass, Acoustic, BluesyPopByron Ev 100
Improved: Audio glitches have been removed from the ends of phrases in the Vocal Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Patch Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest (free) update patch (519) here.

Summary of changes:
Added: Additional dialog available for detailed information in the StyleMaker (fields for memo, examples, and other parameters). These are set in the StyleMaker (more dialog, a button called "Style Memos etc").
Added: Help Video button Added to the Audio Harmony dialog.
Improved: ABC opening improvements with some accidentals, and leadin bars that occur in middle of song.
Improved: Audio harmonies now used Improved algorithms, and can be easily set using N voices above, M voices below (and have additional functions like duplicate melody, and dup. melody octave below).
Improved: Lyrics will be now read from .mid files that used to be karaoke files (.kar) and got renamed somewhere along the line.
Improved: Support for RealTracks that should be transposed only lower (ie heavy metal guitars) and for future Improved metal guitar comping.
Improved: The Audio Harmony Dialog has been rearranged to be more intuitive when using Band-in-a-Box Intelligent Mode.
Fixed: Audio harmonies might be missing some notes.
Fixed: Audio harmonies would be generated with the wrong notes if selecting a range of audio in the middle of the track.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash on bootup with error "Read Beyond end of file".
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box should show message if the latest VJT application is not installed when the user tries to render videos.
Fixed: File > Open Special > Open Audio was importing audio instead of opening it in a new song.
Fixed: In the Bar Settings window, "Chordsheet and Notation - Start a New Line" should say "Notation - Start a New Line".
Fixed: It was not possible to record audio using WAS audio drivers if "Output always on" was disabled.
Fixed: Misc. RealTracks updates.
Fixed: Quicklist drums picker sometimes showing too many drums in the list.
Fixed: Redundant flash messages were showing.
Fixed: Removing a custom drums from a track would still display Drums as the name of the loop in the track.
Fixed: Rendering audio while there is a region of bars highlighted in the chord sheet might cause a crash.
Fixed: Saving a MIDI file would fail unless saving as type 1.
Fixed: Some 12-key RealTracks were incorrectly set to allow transposition.
Fixed: The Audio Harmony dialog needed some hints.
Fixed: The Audio Harmony dialog was missing the new Band-in-a-Box Intelligent Mode.
Fixed: The VJT application should print out its version number in log files.

Tutorials - How to Install Your Band-in-a-Box® for Mac Hard Drive

When you have your Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac UltraPAK shipped to you on a portable hard drive, there are a few different options for installation. We go over these 3 options with our latest video series:

Option 1: Run Band-in-a-Box® directly from the USB drive only: click here to view.

Option 2: Install Band-in-a-Box® on your computer hard drive, but leave the RealTracks & RealDrums on the USB hard drive: click here to view.

Option 3: Install Band-in-a-Box® and the RealTracks & RealDrums on your computer hard drive: click here to view.

Check out all our Band-in-a-Box for Mac videos here.

Video - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets for Band-in-a-Box® for Mac

Have you purchased your Band-in-a-Box® package, and want to make sure you're downloading and installing the RealTracks Sets correctly?

Well, we've created just the tutorial video you're looking for! Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac® - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets.

Video link:
www.pgmusic.com/?vid=QndXu8H_IwM

Thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 - Mac Power Users Discussion

David Sparks and Katie Floyd discuss a variety of topics in their recent episide of Mac Power Users: https://www.relay.fm/mpu/432 - listen all the way through (and laugh along with them - it was a very entertaining episode!), or jump to 1:37:40 where David shares his thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac!

Thank you David and Katie!

Forum Stats
27633 Members
50 Forums
52270 Topics
432742 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
War Eagle, reaper19, Waaree, Eridanus, BjornTopo

27632 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Icelander 175
Noel96 159
Janice & Bud 141
David Snyder 129
rsdean 117
Deryk - PG Music 113
beatmaster 106
eddie1261 - gone 96
Scott C 96
Kent - PG Music 95
Today's Birthdays
david parker