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#150429 - 02/16/12 06:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Cerio]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:

You can easily make the expanded style, via a menu command in the StyleMaker (this was introduced about 3 years ago).




Wow, I completely missed (or forgot) this. I guess you really do learn something new every day.

Thanks, Peter!
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#150430 - 02/16/12 07:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: jford]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16282
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
First I've seen it, too.
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BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#150431 - 02/16/12 08:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: Matt Finley]
MitchC Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 581
So we don't need to buy 'Notes' expanded styles ? Is that what I'm hearing ? Will definately check this out ! Thanks Peter !

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#150432 - 02/16/12 10:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: MitchC]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
John, I do play, and use band in a box. I have played that tune. I realize Band in a Box does not hit every note the way some want. Neither do the musicians in the bands I play in. The example you gave does baffle me.

Are you telling me you want band in a box to play metronomically each piece, with every note on something like the page of a hymnal smacked just as written? That's my music notation software, I can even make it click to help counting.

If you make an mp3 out of the passage does it sound wrong? Who is bothered by it. I am trying to imagine a 'modern' church, my version of that ends about 1969, but there was an organ, a vibraphone, a piano and a 30 member choir. I was often on the piano. (the bench)

Now in that case the pianist stayed off the organ, and I tried my best to put in a fatter sound. Sometimes I was out for a bar or two.

I have no idea how big an issue this has become I guess. I see it all the time. It bothers this person, or that one. Now, I can assure you that in none of the hundreds of music books here, that I have never seen a tune where I need more than 4 chords. And if I did, it would be 3 seconds to get around it.

I drop notes all the time, and chords. In fact I was taught to drop a lot of tied notes, that's for breathing.
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John Conley
Musica est vita

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#150433 - 02/17/12 09:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: John Conley]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I don't want to argue - you asked for an example and I provided one. I can find more, but I doubt I'll spend the time doing that.

The song I posted is also played slowly, so that one chord matters. It's not a matter of having more than 4 chords per bar (generally), it's a matter of being able to have a chord on the off-beat and a new chord on the very next beat. I think Bob Norton posted a number of songs where that would be the case.

Sure, I can get around it...that's not the point. The point is that songs do have chord changes on the off beat and often resolve to the chord on the beat. I've seen it in a number of choir pieces right before they modulate to a new key.

I suspect that this what most people are asking for and would mostly be happy with.

Keep 4 chords, but maybe allow a "pull" (to delay a chord by half a beat), versus a "push", and I'll be a happy man.
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#1-Win10Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
#2-Win10Pro-64,16GB,SSDBoot,7200RPM
#3-Win7Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
H/W: Onboard audio, FastTrack Pro, Casio Kbds
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Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

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#150434 - 02/17/12 11:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: jford]
Cerio Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 764
Loc: Spain
Quote:

The point is that songs do have chord changes on the off beat and often resolve to the chord on the beat.




Exactly


Quote:

Keep 4 chords, but maybe allow a "pull" (to delay a chord by half a beat), versus a "push", and I'll be a happy man.




Having more than 4 chords per bar would be a much better and easier solution, in my opinion: for example, you could very easily write custom 8th notes bass lines and arrangments, and you wouldn't be limited to the 4 chords per bar "resolution" when printing chord sheets, wich means that actually (to my knowledge) you can't print chords on the off beat (in fact, I write them by hand)


Edited by Cerio (02/17/12 12:10 PM)

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#150435 - 02/18/12 10:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: jford]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4190
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Although PG Music did thankfully include a way to expand their MIDI styles a decade after I invented EXPANDED styles, I think you will find that the Norton Music EXPANDED styles will work much better than expanding any 'normal'. Why? They were written to be EXPANDED and to sound right when EXPANDED. Of course I'm biased, I wrote them myself. But you can judge for yourself by listening to the free EXPANDED mp3 demos at http://www.nortonmusic.com/styledemo.html

No, you don't need to buy my styles, but you might want to. Almost all the people who do buy my styles come back for more. That's a good sign.

Notes
_________________________
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http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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#150436 - 02/18/12 02:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: PeterGannon]
axeplayer Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 98
Quote:

Yes, as is pointed out above, you can achieve this effect by doubling the tempo (increase by 100%), and then reducing tempo by 50% on the next bar.

You can do this for any MIDI style, and all you need is an expanded version of the style.

You can easily make the expanded style, via a menu command in the StyleMaker (this was introduced about 3 years ago). This works for any MIDI style (not for RealTracks styles though)

For example, if you have MyStyle, and you want an expanded version of it:

1. Open the stylemaker (Ctrl-Shift-F9 or press the StyleMaker button
2. Choose Stylemaker Menu Option Style-Expand Style
- that's it, you then save the style as MyStyleX or whatever.

Then, on any bar that you want 8 chords,

1. change to MyStyleX
2. Increase tempo by 100%

on the next bar
1. Change style back to MyStyle
2. Decrease tempo by 50%

(this only works for MIDI style)




Thanks very much for this Peter, I was ready to splash out on a few of the Norton Expanded styles until I saw your post.

Thanks very much again for letting us know as I wasn't aware of this feature:)

Axey

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#150437 - 02/18/12 03:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: PeterGannon]
maiki Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 225
Peter,

Thanks a lot for the great product, which I first bought in the DOS version, before there was Windows. Also, I think it is great that you, the creator of BIAB and CEO of PGMusic, participate in these forums, interacting directly with users.

Regarding the problem under discussion, isn't it about time that this limitation of BIAB be fixed? One should not have to jump through hoops and do complicated workarounds to make it work, and it should work in RealTracks as well.

There have been so many complaints about this limitation for years. Wouldn't it be a good idea to work on fixing it as a major goal for now? (Hopefully in an update for BIAB 2012?) Every year there are now 1001 more Real Tracks, more features, etc., but I think that fixing a serious limitation like that would be more important than any of those.


Quote:

Yes, as is pointed out above, you can achieve this effect by doubling the tempo (increase by 100%), and then reducing tempo by 50% on the next bar.

You can do this for any MIDI style, and all you need is an expanded version of the style.

You can easily make the expanded style, via a menu command in the StyleMaker (this was introduced about 3 years ago). This works for any MIDI style (not for RealTracks styles though)

For example, if you have MyStyle, and you want an expanded version of it:

1. Open the stylemaker (Ctrl-Shift-F9 or press the StyleMaker button
2. Choose Stylemaker Menu Option Style-Expand Style
- that's it, you then save the style as MyStyleX or whatever.

Then, on any bar that you want 8 chords,

1. change to MyStyleX
2. Increase tempo by 100%

on the next bar
1. Change style back to MyStyle
2. Decrease tempo by 50%

(this only works for MIDI style)



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#150438 - 02/18/12 04:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: maiki]
maiki Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 225
It is not that it is common to have songs with eight chord changes per 4/4 bar, throughout the song. In fact, I cannot think of one.

However, it is not so uncommon that in a particular measure of the song, one might need more than four chords in that measure.

Passing chords, for example. On beat four of a song, there might be eighth note chord changes, two chords in that beat, followed by a new chord in beat 1 of the next measure.

Or, there could be an important part of a song, where there are quarter note triplets on beat three and four, a new chord for each (could also be considered passing chords), I. E. three chords evenly spaced over two beats. One should be able to do that without complex workarounds, and also with RealTracks.

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#150439 - 02/19/12 09:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: jford]
bjbear Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 13
I hope you didn't think I was arguing with you sir. I certainly am only trying to learn. Thank you for your help.

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#150440 - 02/19/12 10:40 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: maiki]
raymb1 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2448
Loc: Sterling, Va
One song would be "Sophisticated Lady". For the melody only, bars 2 and 4. Bar 2: Dbm7/Gb7, Cm7/F7, Bm7/E7, Bbm7/Eb7. Bar 4: Am7b5/D7b9, Abmb5/Db7b9, Gm7b5/C7b9, F#m7b5/B7b9. There are more subs than this example for those measures. Later, Ray


Edited by raymb1 (02/19/12 10:48 AM)
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#150441 - 02/20/12 05:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: PeterGannon]
babarton Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 330
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Quote:

Yes, as is pointed out above, you can achieve this effect by doubling the tempo (increase by 100%), and then reducing tempo by 50% on the next bar.

You can do this for any MIDI style, and all you need is an expanded version of the style.

You can easily make the expanded style, via a menu command in the StyleMaker (this was introduced about 3 years ago). This works for any MIDI style (not for RealTracks styles though)

For example, if you have MyStyle, and you want an expanded version of it:

1. Open the stylemaker (Ctrl-Shift-F9 or press the StyleMaker button
2. Choose Stylemaker Menu Option Style-Expand Style
- that's it, you then save the style as MyStyleX or whatever.

Then, on any bar that you want 8 chords,

1. change to MyStyleX
2. Increase tempo by 100%

on the next bar
1. Change style back to MyStyle
2. Decrease tempo by 50%

(this only works for MIDI style)





This looks like a good item to put in the "Tips and Tricks" Section (?)

Bruce

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#150442 - 02/21/12 02:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: jford]
tonnie Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 283
Loc: Bergen, Norway
14/2/2010 I posted the following suggestionon how to enter 5 chords in one 4/4 bar.


Re: More than one chord change per beat? [Re: raymb1]
#262386 - 14/02/10 03:32 AM

If you want to add a quater note triplet chord movement, you can change that half of a 4/4 bar to a 3/4 bar and the remainder to a 2/2 bar. Do not forget to change the tempo of the 3/4 bar so that 3/4 equals 2/4 tempo-wise. E.g. you want to use a triple chord movment Dm7 up to Fm7 (Dm7, D#m7, Em7 >Fm7), the Dm7, D#m7, Em7 is the triplet, change that part of the bar to a 3/4 bar.

Good Luck!
Tonnie

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#150443 - 02/24/12 08:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: More than 4 chords per measure [Re: jford]
cressjl Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/03/00
Posts: 686
Loc: Blue Ridge of Virginia
I fully agree with you, John. In fact, while composing a Christmas chorus in a contemporary Christian style I ran into this problem. I struggled with pushes, expanded styles, bar/tempo tweaking...just could not get there from here. I finally gave up on the chord progression and dropped the gloss altogether...sounded lame, too lame. I didn't perform the song; it sits on the shelf until next Christmas, maybe.

A lot of contemporary Christian music (following pop culture nowadays [whatever happened to pop culture borrowing from the church...sigh...?]) has very deliberate syncopated chord progression inserted at specific locations in the song for emphasis. It would be where a push would ordinarily be considered, but it's not a push. Its hard to describe; in fact, I would be hard pressed to point out an example by simply hearing it, but once attempting to implement it in BIAB, the problem becomes obvious.

About the chorus, I will probably ditch BIAB, switch over to RealBand (thank God for RealBand!), and head to my studio. I would have to admit that RealBand is becoming essential in producing my end products; BIAB alone isn't cutting it.

On the other hand, let me say that BIAB is still an absolutely amazing tool!

-----------------------------------------------
Wow, on a reread, I wonder why I would ditch BIAB, but still call it an amazing tool?! Using BIAB alone without having to use RealBand is what I mean. I also will have to record live to provide instrumentation that creates the glosses that I need. I was also responding to John Ford's post specifically, BTW.


Edited by cressjl (02/24/12 11:14 AM)
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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® Version 2018 for Windows is a HIT!

Since the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows, we've received some great feedback!

"Oh wow. [The Audio Chord Wizard] has got to be the coolest enhancement to 2018 Band-in-a-Box. This is so-o-o powerful. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!"
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"Nice work, as usual!!"
"Luvin' it so far!"
"And yet again you manage to come up with styles and instruments that we absolutely 'must have'!"
"Great to have the Oohs and Ahhs RealTracks!"
"The RealTracks are worth their weight in gold to me. They really are an amazing invention for music creators."
"Every one of these tracks is phenomenal!"
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"What an unexpected treat!"
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"Video set number three with Oliver Gannon is phenomenal just by itself! I've been asking for additional instruction from him for sometime And here it is! Plus it looks like there's something for everyone. You really out did yourself on this one PG Music - way to go!"
"Just tonight popped together a quick video using one of the new video styles. Must say the whole process worked without a hitch so this really does look like a great new feature. And what a great teaching aid this could be!"
"Come on, whats not to like about this"
"The new Audio Chord Wizard is my favorite new feature!"
"THIS IS EXCITING!"
"This should be great for creating backing tracks for covers."
"I know what I'm getting for Christmas!"
"What a release!!!"
"The XTRA Styles are fantastic any future idle music-related minutes I may have had are now totally gone gonna find that perfect background rhythm on just about every one of my favorites!!!"
"Recent retirement and the 2018 version of BIAB is a perfect combination!!"
"it's educational utility and potential is awesome!!!"
"I must say, the new harmony options in particular have me champing at the bit!"
"Love the new Video RealTracks!"
"The mixer included into the StylePicker is a great addition."
"This will give my students a great overview of what's going on in an arrangement with the different instruments.!!!"
"A musician must have."
"Lovin' the new RealTracks!!!"
"Amazing!"

Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box® to version 2018 during our special for great savings & Bonus PAKs! www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

Vocal "Oohs" and "Aahs" RealTracks Tutorial Video

Here's a video showing you the different ways you can use the Vocal "Oohs" and "Aahs" RealTracks, new with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

Video link - Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows, now with Vocal "Oohs" and "Aahs" RealTracks!

Plus, here are two audio demos, the full versions of two of the songs that appear in this video:

http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_LAZYDAY_full_demo.m4a
http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/DownByTheSalleyGardens_with_VocalOohsAahs.m4a

Purchase RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs for just $29 here. It's also included in the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows PlusPAK, UltraPAK, and Audiophile Edition.

Band-in-a-Box® Version 2018 Build 506 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest Build 506 at http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#506

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 205:
Added: "Export Song as Audio File..." menu item has been added to the Audio menu.
Added: BB2018 tutorials folder.
Added: New styles (STY files) for many of the new RealTracks in Sets 278-300 and MIDI SuperTracks sets 25-27.
Added: StylePicker User Categories updated for Xtra Styles PAK 4.
Updated: Styles database
Updated: Various improvements (including Db offset adjustments) to many of the new STY files and .SGU demos included with RealTracks Sets 278-300.
Fixed: "K3" did not work in the chord sheet for copying 3 bars (8 bars would be copied instead).
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box always opens with a maximized window briefly before resizing to the user's saved size.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box will not open using the proper window size if the Mixer window was open while exiting.
Fixed: Deleting a region of chords would cause "Undo Delete Bars" to appear in the Edit menu, but do nothing unless chosen twice.
Fixed: Error "Input and output sample rates must match" might show when the devices do have matching sample rates.
Fixed: Flash messages were not being added to the flash message log.
Fixed: If Band-in-a-Box was in DAW Plugin mode while exiting, the window size was not restored the next time opening the program.
Fixed: Rendering .m4a or video files might fail and request that the user install QuickTime if using Windows 7. QuickTime should only be necessary for Windows Vista or XP.
Fixed: Some of the Oohs and Aahs (Vocal) RealTracks were not working correctly, and they have been greatly improved.
Fixed: Sometimes when deleting a note in the notation window, you will be asked "OK to delete chord".
Fixed: The "Show Flash Tips" setting did not have any effect when disabled.
Fixed: WashboardBluegrass drums.
Fixed: When exiting DAW Plugin mode, the window would not return to its previous size (it would become maximized).

Have Your Band-in-a-Box® Delivered In Time for Christmas!

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Band-in-a-Box® 2018 - Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial Video

Our latest video includes a Quick Start tutorial on the installation, locations, and use of the Band-in-a-Box® Xtra Styles PAKs in Version 2018 for Windows. Video: Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial

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User Blog - How To Record a Cover Song Using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand

Joanne Cooper's final blog post for 2017, How to record a cover song using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand is a must-read!

Joanne summarizes the steps she took to produce her cover of "Old Lang Syne" - her final result was posted to the User Showcase Forum: Listen to Auld Lang Syne

https://www.joannecooper.co.za/blog/blog/how-to-record-a-cover-song-using-band-in-a-box-and-realband

Announcing…The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

We are excited to announce the release of a new project: The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

Songwriter Floyd Jane shows the songwriting process from inspiration to performance and publication: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=IYMMZVvQdCw

The idea for this project came about when many members on this forum and elsewhere were asking questions about the song writing process. There are many aspects, and many parts of it necessary to create a song, get it arranged, performed, and then published on the internet. So we asked the great songwriter Floyd Jane, who is a regular member on this forum, if he could help. Floyd agreed and was even able to collaborate with other forum members, Janice and Bud. The result is this video we put together that you can see on YouTube or Facebook, called "The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)".

We hope this video helps other songwriters with their songwriting process, and also shows them tools that are available to them along the way. Also, we mention this User Showcase Forum, and hope to see many new aspiring or accomplished songwriters join this community :blush:

A big Thank You to Floyd for sharing your knowledge with the community and making this possible. And to Janice and Bud for your great collaboration!

Here is Floyd's original forum post for his song "A Little Bit Of Me": http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=433190

Check out Floyd / Janice & Bud’s music here:
http://floydjane.com/
https://www.janiceandbud.com/

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