Hi All!

I think the upgrades for BIAB are "WAY" too pricey!!

I own quite a few digital audio software products, and none of them come even close to the extreme price percentage jump for upgrades as BIAB does.

Case in point:

Take Roland/Cakewalk's "Sonar".
Their last version (8.5) sold for about $499 (List). The upgrade to Sonar X1, their latest and greatest incarnation, which has tons of new features and top of the line plug-ins (processors, effects, VST Instruments, etc)is only $99.00 !!!

Look at the "Packages" page on the PG Music website.

Say you wanted to upgrade from BIAB 2011 UltraPlusPak (which list at about $469 list) to BIAB 2012 UltraPlusPak.
Your paying $279.00 for the upgrade!! You do the Math!! (that sounds like a ripoff to me)

While your on the "Packages" page, scroll over the "Upgrade From 2011 - UltraPlusPak" Download button. See all the things you get for the $279. WOW!!!

WAIT A FREAKIN' MINUTE!! I ALREADY HAVE MORE THAN 85% (if not more) OF THIS STUFF FROM MY "2011" UltraPlusPak!!! (Did I say Ripoff!)

I don't need another Hardrive, and as I said, I have at least 85% (if not all) of the listed RealTracks, RealDrums, Midi Styles Sets, Soloist Sets, etc. from my 2011 Version !!

Come on PG Music. I know we all need to make a buck and times are hard with such a sucky economy and such, but I think we're being taking advantage of here.

BIAB has come a long way from the early days when I first came on board back in 1998 or 1999, but so have all the other software products that I've purchased back then and stayed loyal to.

I want to know what you as "Users and Committed Customers of PG Music think about this.

Don't be shy. Let me have it!!

Harpo

If you are going to cite SONAR X1 as an example in your argument, you should use the numbers fairly.

SONAR X1 is priced $100 lower than was SONAR 8.5, at $399 list for the most pricey version. Upgrades range from $99 to $199 depending on what version you owned. Plus, the comparison is hardly relevant since SONAR 8.5 and SONAR X1 are in many ways different products.

Lots of things in the Cakewalk line changed with the introduction of X1, unlike the evolutionary change in BIAB from version 2011 to 2012, and don't forget you are skipping version 2011.5.

Well Harpo,

The secret is as I am sure you are well aware of is NOT to buy band in a box upgrades now or anytime they don't have a sale on, then you will get it for half the price.

Its probably just their business model being a small company and with biab filling a small niche in the music software business they are probably somewhat dependant on (people who are new to the software) people paying full whack outside the sale times.

But you and I Harpo know differently, at sales times we get a good deal.

Musiclover

Harpo,

Am retired on fixed income...Now that said not missing any meals.
Will never own a new car or anything like that.

My first PG products purchase was Power tracks back in 2006 I think.
Upgraded a few times but not every year.

2010 Dec Purchased BIAB 2010, just a few days later, 2011 came out.
PG gave me upgrade for free due to recent purchase.

Mid 2011, 2011.5 with bonus paks came out for $99 bucks. Wow, all kinds
of new realtracks.

Was going to upgrade to Mega pak and patiently waited until DEC of 2011.
Mega Pak came out. Called to purchase and was informed for just a few bucks
more could get the Ultra-Plus Pak for think was $139 or close to that.
Wow, went for that, and also the Bonus Paks, this gave me All of the Realtracks
and even more. Best Christmas in many years.

June/July PG will be coming out with new versions like the usually do.
Dont remember, but usually the mid year upgrades are quite as hot as the
Dec ones. Will wait and see on the Jun/July offering.

Not sure on my Dec upgrade this year, maybe just the Standard BIAB and
bonus paks if they are offered.

Their technology has been jumping by leaps and bounds, their service and
customer support is beyond compare, their products are the best there is
really looking at what you get for the money.

We like to think of prices going up a lot, and they are across the board in
our lives, but PG Music and what they have to offer at all levels, especially
if you delve into it deeply is an incredible product.

Now you must think PG paided me a great deal to say this.
And you would be right....NAW, ROFLMAO, just a rabid fan and user of their products.

Going from the beginning the Ultra-Plus-Pak is steep, but you get almost every product
they sell in the pak.

Jun/July time frame they usually offer new upgrade specials. Hang in there patiently
and grab one of them.

Just my personal experience.

Hang in there!

The thing to remember is, if you intend to upgrade at Decenmber to the following years program is NOT to upgrade in June/July to the .5 program as in effect what you are doing is paying the extra $99 just to have the newer realtracks a few mths earlier than the December upgraders.

And you save $99

But if you have the money to spend and can't wait them like many you may decide to upgrade to the .5 in middle of year.

musiclover

Harpo,

I disagree with you. I think the upgrade prices are excellent value. Seems to me that you are looking at the overall and not the detail.

From my perspective, the upgrade of UltraPlusPak Windows version 2011 to 2012 was mostly about Realtracks. A total of 202 Realtracks was added to 2012. For the upgrade price of $279, this means that each RT costs around $1.40. I find that incredible value!

That I can have world class musicians playing the backing of the music I arrange for such an amazingly cheap price is brillliant. (If I wanted to professionally demo each of the songs I write, prices begin around $400 - 500 for a single song; and then I'm not sure whether I'll like the end product or not. I like the control that owning BIAB/RB gives me.)

Then of course there are always the new features that come along as BIAB continues to grow. Keep in mind also that the upgrade gives the user the latest version of Realband in addition to BIAB. The PG Music suite is much more than just a DAW like Sonar.

I have absolutely no objection to supporting PG Music. I find the company amazing to deal with and their products are incredible. If my support provides funds that allows PG Music to continue to evolve their music suite, I'm there.

Regards,
Noel

It seems fair to me, with what it must cost them to record high dollar players and programing too. I used Sonor for midi editing but never upgraded it cause it didn't seem necessary to me, my music would have only been average at best without Biab. Plus you get a DAW (RB) with it too, and all the extra programs in the Ultra Pack. Sounds pretty cheap when you add it all up!

Easy...DON'T UPGRADE ! Done.

Harpo - I take it that it's the RTs you want. The hard drive makes it expedient for you to get them - either that or you could take a day or two to download . . . . what would that cost you. The RTs have attached studio costs for recording by name artist but is still good value as Noel explained.

But then to upgrade from your 2011 to 2012 - both BIAB and RB - it's only $69 and you can probably download it. That's pretty good value.

You'll be up to date and can choose your RT Sets individually rather than getting ones you don't want.

I hear your frustration - but at least update the programs - $69 for both BIAB and RB. Do the RTs as you can. You can't make all the new ones work anyway unless you update to 2012.

Cheers - Ian

PS I already have all midi styles, soloists, melodists and it bothers me to be offered them at every upgrade UNLESS there have been changes. Maybe an Ultra and/or Plus Pak with Pgm upgrades and New RTs - without the other add-ons - might be an idea. IMHO

I don't kown if there's many other software that can do what Biab do ? Considering that the upgrade consists of buying software + hardware, I don't feel that it's expensive... but I waited for the special prices of the end of year to upgrade ;-)

So Harpo, the moniker seems to suit.

This rant, if it was to have effect would need more than that as substance.

Are you aware of how much it costs to hire the musicians, have them play the stuff required, program that stuff, and then check it, beta test it, package it, and launch it.

We are in Canada now, so no one is holding a loaded snow shoe over your head and making you buy an upgrade.

Feel free to purchase the next version without mentioning that you ever owned anything and consider it a donation to the cause.

Play back a few songs on a 30 year old synth so you can have some cheeze to go with the ...

Technology changes by the moment, and a person can go broke trying to upgrade every bit of software and hardware to the latest greatest version. My fatherly advice to my son (who always wanted to upgrade everything all the time) was:

1) for hardware: wait until the software you use will no longer run well on the old machine

2) for software: Don't upgrade everything. Each year upgrade the product that adds the most features you need. If a product goes 2 or 3 releases without adding anything that's important to me, then I just keep using the old version and stop upgrading that product.

For the past several years, BIAB has been the only music making software that has consistently added new features that pique my interest.

3) upgrade at the most advantageous time. Introductory prices are lower, and it's foolish to let the sale run out if you know that you want to upgrade.


4) in order to do that, you need to know which product you plan to run with. For me, it has boiled down to the PGMusic suite... they do everything I need.

Nah, i don't think it is to much, i just stopped upgrading some other stuff that i don't use as much. If Sonar had the technology to make RTs and added 200 or so each upgrade i bet it would be much more costly.

If i play golf i will spend $50 per outing, and if I play racquetball $20 to $30 per session. I play music about twice a week now, and it cost me around $200 per upgrade, and that is about $3.85 cents per session. Pretty cheap i might say.