You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#153631 - 03/15/12 05:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go
avatars_the_titletrack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 303
Loc: london
it's really frustrating....this program could kick serious ass but it just has a few things that render it of no use to me. It's been YEARS that I have been whining about how BB throws notes in the harmony that CHANGE the harmony from what the user specifies. So after I saw the 'simpler arrangement' feature, I bought BB 2012. Guess what? I chose a 'simpler' realtrack, hard rock arp or something, wrote Am and F, and BB played back a ninth on the Am. Grrr. So I had to regenerate the track, and by chance it played back a freaking Am with ONLY the notes of Am. But guess what, soon or later I'd write a chord that I have to 'fix' by regenerating the whole progression, and it will mess up another chord previously writte.

Christ, is it so hard for Pg Music to understand? Not everyone is a jazz player and not everyone cares about playing fancy extended chords where are not wanted.

And STILL no option to play a minor add 2 (different from Am 9 and not the same thing at all ) Come on guys, it's been 25 years since the release of this program. And no 'm add 9' chord.

Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it

After 15 minutes of messing around and wasting time trying to come up with creative ways to make BB work for me, I just turned off the darn computer thing and went back to my Tyros 2.

It's really a shame, since the release of Realtracks I always wanted to ditch my hardware and work with BB to write my music on, but it's just a waste of time. Good program, but it doesn't work for me, I am very precise about my harmonic progressions. Anyways, I wrote all this a zillion times before, so what's the use....

I don't want to hear random stuff. I don't want freaking notes that make no sense in my music. I want the darn thing to play back the chords I write without throwing in anything else. The day that I'll be able to do that on BB, I'll probably be old.


Edited by avatars_the_titletrack (03/15/12 05:47 AM)

Top
#153632 - 03/15/12 06:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 10658
Loc: Australia
Did you try setting the "Song Settings" to the "Force simpler arrangement" option to see if that made a difference?

_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#153633 - 03/15/12 07:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Noel96]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
I can understand your frustration. The problem is that the 'Force Song to Simpler Arrangement' option doesn't seem to override the embellishment at all in my experience (although I'm only using v2011.5)

To do that you have to edit the current style and under the Style menu 'set embellishment for all instruments' to 0.

This should work. If it doesn't then it's usually because ninths and other extensions are part of the notation in the pattern. In this instance you could change the velocity settings to '0' under the Pattern menu targeting a specific midi note, e.g. notes 50, 62 and 74, which would have the effect of zapping any ninths once and for all.

What's needed is a more effective way of doing all this without having to go 'under the bonnet' so to speak. im coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum where even for jazz its not always a good feature to throw in extensions. Especially as in some cases the notes don't really belong and change the harmony colour completely.

Regards

Alan

Top
#153634 - 03/15/12 11:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: alan S.]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6057
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
This is the deal Avatars. PG gives you all the tools to write all your own styles. You've never mentioned that you wrote custom styles and still have this problem so have you even tried that?. Learn how to write a style and I believe your problem is solved. That's why that ability is there, you can create whatever you want or at least very close to it. Just like on your Tyros btw, you can write custom styles for it too. If you can't or won't do that contact Norton Music, he's got several thousand custom styles. You can email him with your exact specifications and ask him if what you want is possible. I expect it is.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Top
#153635 - 03/15/12 12:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
pwarren Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
If I'm not mistaken, the 'Simpler Arrangement' feature only applies to ReatTracks. If chosen, the 'Simpler Arrangement' feature will choose an arrangement from a RT that is indeed 'simpler'. However, not all RTs have simpler arrangements. You need to check the individual RTs to see if they do. If you are using RTs that don't have this feature it won't work.

If I know PGMusic at all they will be adding simpler RTs where ever possible in new releases and, via patches, to older RTs. Make sure you have the most recent RT patch installed.

As mentioned above, for midi it's the embellish feature you need to disable in order to prevent extensions to chords. That and modify or create styles that exclude the unwanted notes.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

Top
#153636 - 03/15/12 01:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pwarren]
carkins Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 349
I have no experience in this but: Is it easy to change unwanted chords using the Notation window and then Freeze the track?

May be a pain but may solve this problem temporarily.
I encounter it also but would like to learn the easiest way to solve it.

I agree all styles should be offered as Simple and Embellished just as PG is now giving us more "Dry" instruments we can color our own way using Amplitube etc.

Top
#153637 - 03/15/12 01:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: carkins]
Danny C. Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6387
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

I have no experience in this but: Is it easy to change unwanted chords using the Notation window and then Freeze the track?

May be a pain but may solve this problem temporarily.
I encounter it also but would like to learn the easiest way to solve it.

I agree all styles should be offered as Simple and Embellished just as PG is now giving us more "Dry" instruments we can color our own way using Amplitube etc.




This is the way I do . . . I call it the old fashion way.

Later,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

Top
#153638 - 03/15/12 11:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
pinglis Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Quote:


Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it




So what are these mysterious chords featured in "No Easy Way Out" that BiaB doesn't understand?
_________________________
www.paulinglis.org

Top
#153639 - 03/15/12 11:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pinglis]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15018
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I thought 'Force Song to Simpler Arrangement' was for MIDI, and if you want the new 'simpler' RealTracks, you have to select them individually.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

Top
#153640 - 03/15/12 11:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pinglis]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15018
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Quote:

Quote:


Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it




So what are these mysterious chords featured in "No Easy Way Out" that BIAB doesn't understand?



Good point. Examples, please.

We often (not always) find that a chord someone cannot enter is solvable by knowing the BIAB convention for entering it, or something that will pass for it.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

Top
#153641 - 03/16/12 10:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Matt Finley]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
I think the issue is one of unwanted embellishments to simple chords, not some mysterious chord that biab doesn't recognize.

'Force simpler arrangement' or 'allow/disallow embellishments to chords' has a history of failing to override embellishments already assigned in the pattern editor to the style in use. That's been my experience anyway. You have to set embellishments to 0 for all instruments in the stylemaker to effectively get rid of them.

Regards

Alan

Top
#153642 - 03/16/12 10:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: alan S.]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15018
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes - we have two separate questions going here. The chord spelling is a different topic from the simplifying.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

Top
#153643 - 03/16/12 10:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Matt Finley]
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8856
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
The fly-by help for "force to Simpler arrangement" states that it is for both MIDI styles and for RealTracks that have the simpler versions available (look at the RealTracks picker - one of the columns tells you if a particular RT has that feature).
_________________________
John

PC: Win10Pro-64
Laptop: Win7Pro-64
Both: 8GB RAM + Dual 7200RPM Drives + FastTrack Pro
S/W: BB/RB2017/Sonar/Reaper/Notion/Finale
Noteworthy Composer/Kontakt Ultimate/Casio Kbds
Halion/Garritan/IK Multimedia
Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#153644 - 03/16/12 10:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: jford]
Rachael Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
I can't tell any difference when selecting this option for a Midi track.

Top
#153645 - 03/16/12 01:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Rachael]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15018
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Thanks, John and Rachael. Clearly, it's time for me to do more experiments.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

Top


PG Music News
RealBand 2017 Build 6 Update Available!

A new RealBand 2017 patch update is ready, and can be downloaded here: www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2017_6

Summary of Changes for Build 6 (Mar 27, 2017):
Fixed: RealTracks generation failed in certain cases with build 5, if using MME drivers and 'Output Always On' was selected.

What else was new in build 5?
Summary of Changes for Build 5 (released Mar 15, 2017):
Fixed: Improved support for the Vielklang VST instant harmonies plugin.
Added: Always on MME added (checkbox setting).
Added: Drag and drop from the drop station to VSTi plugins that support this, is now implemented
Added: In the PDF manual, clicking on the Bookmarks navigation pane, Table of Contents, or Index will jump to the corresponding page. (Note: To use the navigational elements, you need to open the PDF manual in Adobe Reader.)
Improved: Much faster initialization of accompaniment functions (e.g. StylePicker and RealTracks Picker).
Fixed: The time location of time-based VSTi plugins was being continually advanced when RB was stopped. This has been fixed so that the VSTi time location now gets set to RB's current time location when playback is not happening.

Endorsing Artist Terry Fernihough's Number One Hit!

Our newest Endorsing Artist Terry Fernihough is the writer of I'll Bring the Party, a number one hit on the Canadian National Aboriginal Countdown! Listen here...

Learn more about Terry here.

Review all our Endorsing Artists when you visit www.pgmusic.com/endorsers.php.

We Have A WINNER! The Band-in-a-Box® Giveaway Continues...

We're are excited to be offering a Band-in-a-Box® Giveaway from March 20, 2017 to April 9, 2017, with one Band-in-a-Box® EverythingPAK prize awarded each week!

Our first random draw for a winner took place today - there were more than 1,000 entries! Congratulations Doug!

There's still two more prizes to be won! Click here for your chance to win!

Contest rules

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 Build 462 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows users can download the latest free patch update, Build 462, here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#462

Summary of changes:
Improved: Many electric guitar styles, when using the DI versions, would have very loud shots and holds. These are now balanced.
Fixed: Using CTRL+V to paste notes in the piano roll would cause the notes to be pasted twice.
Fixed: Some menu items were showing the wrong captions.
Fixed: Checking "Set Audio Master (Base) Tempo to" in the Import Audio File dialog was not working.
Fixed: It was not possible to specify a chorus when using the "L" code word in the chord sheet, because the second comma would trigger chord entry. (eg "L8,12,2").
Fixed: The font size for the large patches in the mixer would not change when resizing the window.

Band-in-a-Box® & RealBand 2017 한국어 버전 (Korean)

80가지 이상의 새로운 기능과 놀라운 콘텐츠 콜렉션을 추가했으며 새로운 내용에는 202가지 실제트랙, 34가지 미디 슈퍼트랙, 악기 연구, 12-키 실제트랙, Hi-Q 기타 노테이션, 재발견된 실제트랙/미디 슈퍼트랙 스타일, 새로운 신디사이저 (sforzando), 120 가지 이상 새로운 실제스타일을 포함합니다! 우리는 202 가지 새로운 실제트랙을 추가했으며, 과거의 101가지의 두 배입니다! 12-키 Hi-Q 기타 탭이 있는 새로운 악기 연구 세트가 있습니다. 이전의 일부 실제트랙은 정확도를 향상시키기 위해 다시 마스터되었습니다. 우리는 또한 새로운 RealTracks 및 Loops를 사용하는 120가지 이상의 새로운 실제스타일을 가지고 있습니다. 여기에 훌륭한 크루너 보사, 크루너 발라드, 브렌트/마이크 블루스, 하와이안, 멕시칸, 페루, 파워 트리오, 하우스, 힙합, 랩, 켈트 하프, 레트로 60년대 등 여러 가지를 포함합니다.

www.bandinabox.com/bb.php?os=win&lang=ko

Customers LOVE the Celtic Guitar Video Master Class Series!

The newest addition to our Master Class Series is the Celtic Guitar Video Master Class Series, featuring world-class Celtic guitarist (and RealTracks Artist) Quinn Bachand, and it's a HIT!

Watch the trailer: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=aNe-illEYf0

There are 3 volumes available, each about an hour long. Purchase each volume for $19, or grab all three for just $49! Quinn covers techniques, chord theory, voicings and walks you through 17 "must-know" tunes. This is for the beginner-advanced guitarist, and covers Celtic guitar styles (some folk and old-time covered as well).

Learn more about the Celtic Guitar Video Master Class Series: www.pgmusic.com/celticguitarmasterclass.htm

Mac users: www.pgmusic.com/celticguitarmasterclass.mac.htm

RealTracks Update for Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows!

If you're using Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows, check out the latest update patch we have just released for RealTracks! Patch info - click here.

This is a cumulative patch that includes updates for RealTracks released with Band-in-a-Box® 2017, and updates/additions to the Shots and Holds library.

If you only want the newest updates since the last patch issued Feb 23 2017, there's a smaller patch you can download here.

Summary of changes:
Fixed / Improved / Added - Entire Library of regular and Direct Input Shots and Holds has been re-tested, and there have been many fixes. This includes adding new Shots and Holds for instruments that previously didn't have them, reassigning instruments to more appropriate Shots and Holds, improving volume levels and offsets, and fixing some issues with incorrect chords.
Fixed - Many electric guitar styles, when using the DI versions, would have very loud shots and holds. These are now balanced.
Fixed - Notation for all songs from 'Artist Performance Set 3 - Celtic Fiddle Tunes' is much more accurate.
Fixed - Some Waltz style RealDrums were not playing correctly. The kick drum should always play before the snare.
Fixed - Endings for Piano, Acoustic, HeldChords 060
Fixed - Minor seventh chords on Guitar, Electric, Rhythm PopBalladClean Ev 085
Fixed - _SONGBRD style mistakenly had an extra acoustic guitar on the soloist track.
Fixed - Misc typos in the RealTracks Picker.

Forum Stats
25792 Members
49 Forums
44872 Topics
363696 Posts

Max Online: 2283 @ 08/25/16 03:52 PM
Newest Members
Mar, Michael51, admin, ggplayer, ere4475

25792 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
VideoTrack 265
jford 195
Matt Finley 189
Guitarhacker 163
Pipeline 150
Icelander 139
Noel96 119
Charlie Fogle 104
Janice & Bud 104
rharv 100
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould