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#153631 - 03/15/12 05:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go
avatars_the_titletrack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 303
Loc: london
it's really frustrating....this program could kick serious ass but it just has a few things that render it of no use to me. It's been YEARS that I have been whining about how BB throws notes in the harmony that CHANGE the harmony from what the user specifies. So after I saw the 'simpler arrangement' feature, I bought BB 2012. Guess what? I chose a 'simpler' realtrack, hard rock arp or something, wrote Am and F, and BB played back a ninth on the Am. Grrr. So I had to regenerate the track, and by chance it played back a freaking Am with ONLY the notes of Am. But guess what, soon or later I'd write a chord that I have to 'fix' by regenerating the whole progression, and it will mess up another chord previously writte.

Christ, is it so hard for Pg Music to understand? Not everyone is a jazz player and not everyone cares about playing fancy extended chords where are not wanted.

And STILL no option to play a minor add 2 (different from Am 9 and not the same thing at all ) Come on guys, it's been 25 years since the release of this program. And no 'm add 9' chord.

Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it

After 15 minutes of messing around and wasting time trying to come up with creative ways to make BB work for me, I just turned off the darn computer thing and went back to my Tyros 2.

It's really a shame, since the release of Realtracks I always wanted to ditch my hardware and work with BB to write my music on, but it's just a waste of time. Good program, but it doesn't work for me, I am very precise about my harmonic progressions. Anyways, I wrote all this a zillion times before, so what's the use....

I don't want to hear random stuff. I don't want freaking notes that make no sense in my music. I want the darn thing to play back the chords I write without throwing in anything else. The day that I'll be able to do that on BB, I'll probably be old.


Edited by avatars_the_titletrack (03/15/12 05:47 AM)

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#153632 - 03/15/12 06:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 11274
Loc: Australia
Did you try setting the "Song Settings" to the "Force simpler arrangement" option to see if that made a difference?

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#153633 - 03/15/12 07:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Noel96]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
I can understand your frustration. The problem is that the 'Force Song to Simpler Arrangement' option doesn't seem to override the embellishment at all in my experience (although I'm only using v2011.5)

To do that you have to edit the current style and under the Style menu 'set embellishment for all instruments' to 0.

This should work. If it doesn't then it's usually because ninths and other extensions are part of the notation in the pattern. In this instance you could change the velocity settings to '0' under the Pattern menu targeting a specific midi note, e.g. notes 50, 62 and 74, which would have the effect of zapping any ninths once and for all.

What's needed is a more effective way of doing all this without having to go 'under the bonnet' so to speak. im coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum where even for jazz its not always a good feature to throw in extensions. Especially as in some cases the notes don't really belong and change the harmony colour completely.

Regards

Alan

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#153634 - 03/15/12 11:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: alan S.]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6131
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
This is the deal Avatars. PG gives you all the tools to write all your own styles. You've never mentioned that you wrote custom styles and still have this problem so have you even tried that?. Learn how to write a style and I believe your problem is solved. That's why that ability is there, you can create whatever you want or at least very close to it. Just like on your Tyros btw, you can write custom styles for it too. If you can't or won't do that contact Norton Music, he's got several thousand custom styles. You can email him with your exact specifications and ask him if what you want is possible. I expect it is.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#153635 - 03/15/12 12:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
pwarren Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
If I'm not mistaken, the 'Simpler Arrangement' feature only applies to ReatTracks. If chosen, the 'Simpler Arrangement' feature will choose an arrangement from a RT that is indeed 'simpler'. However, not all RTs have simpler arrangements. You need to check the individual RTs to see if they do. If you are using RTs that don't have this feature it won't work.

If I know PGMusic at all they will be adding simpler RTs where ever possible in new releases and, via patches, to older RTs. Make sure you have the most recent RT patch installed.

As mentioned above, for midi it's the embellish feature you need to disable in order to prevent extensions to chords. That and modify or create styles that exclude the unwanted notes.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#153636 - 03/15/12 01:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pwarren]
carkins Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 349
I have no experience in this but: Is it easy to change unwanted chords using the Notation window and then Freeze the track?

May be a pain but may solve this problem temporarily.
I encounter it also but would like to learn the easiest way to solve it.

I agree all styles should be offered as Simple and Embellished just as PG is now giving us more "Dry" instruments we can color our own way using Amplitube etc.

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#153637 - 03/15/12 01:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: carkins]
Danny C. Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6405
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

I have no experience in this but: Is it easy to change unwanted chords using the Notation window and then Freeze the track?

May be a pain but may solve this problem temporarily.
I encounter it also but would like to learn the easiest way to solve it.

I agree all styles should be offered as Simple and Embellished just as PG is now giving us more "Dry" instruments we can color our own way using Amplitube etc.




This is the way I do . . . I call it the old fashion way.

Later,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

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#153638 - 03/15/12 11:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: avatars_the_titletrack]
pinglis Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Quote:


Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it




So what are these mysterious chords featured in "No Easy Way Out" that BiaB doesn't understand?
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#153639 - 03/15/12 11:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pinglis]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15456
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I thought 'Force Song to Simpler Arrangement' was for MIDI, and if you want the new 'simpler' RealTracks, you have to select them individually.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

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#153640 - 03/15/12 11:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: pinglis]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15456
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Quote:

Quote:


Also, BB just doesn't understand certain pop and rock harmonic progressions at all, for example a progression as in the song 'No easy way out' (the verse progression) from the Rocky IV soundtrack, I can program it very easily on my Tyros 2, but on BB ? forget it




So what are these mysterious chords featured in "No Easy Way Out" that BIAB doesn't understand?



Good point. Examples, please.

We often (not always) find that a chord someone cannot enter is solvable by knowing the BIAB convention for entering it, or something that will pass for it.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

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#153641 - 03/16/12 10:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Matt Finley]
alan S. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Scotland
I think the issue is one of unwanted embellishments to simple chords, not some mysterious chord that biab doesn't recognize.

'Force simpler arrangement' or 'allow/disallow embellishments to chords' has a history of failing to override embellishments already assigned in the pattern editor to the style in use. That's been my experience anyway. You have to set embellishments to 0 for all instruments in the stylemaker to effectively get rid of them.

Regards

Alan

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#153642 - 03/16/12 10:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: alan S.]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15456
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes - we have two separate questions going here. The chord spelling is a different topic from the simplifying.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

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#153643 - 03/16/12 10:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Matt Finley]
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 9280
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
The fly-by help for "force to Simpler arrangement" states that it is for both MIDI styles and for RealTracks that have the simpler versions available (look at the RealTracks picker - one of the columns tells you if a particular RT has that feature).
_________________________
John

PC: Win10Pro-64
Laptop: Win7Pro-64
Both: 8GB RAM + Dual 7200RPM Drives + FastTrack Pro
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Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

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#153644 - 03/16/12 10:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: jford]
Rachael Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
I can't tell any difference when selecting this option for a Midi track.

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#153645 - 03/16/12 01:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 'Simpler arrangement'.....still a LONG way to go [Re: Rachael]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 15456
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Thanks, John and Rachael. Clearly, it's time for me to do more experiments.
_________________________
BIAB 2017 Audiophile. Software includes SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, & Encore on Windows 10 64-bit. Hardware includes custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20, TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch.

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PG Music News
Mac Band-in-a-Box 2016 Patch Update - Build 161

Band-in-a-Box® 2016 for Mac users can download the latest patch here.

Summary of changes for Build 161:
Fixed: "[RT n/a]" would display for style long names if the style contained loops.
Fixed: _Loops and UserTracks would not display in the mixer.
Fixed: Drag and drop would fail for various RealTracks (eg. #518-#525, #680-#684, etc.). This bug only existed in the Japanese version.
Fixed: Newer styles would not have their names, descriptions, etc. translated from English. This bug only existed in localized versions.
Fixed: MIDI sustain pedal would not be shut off when stopping song or hitting Panic button.
Fixed: "Individual MIDI Tracks" in the Render dialog did not work.
Fixed: The style memo would display "RT2995" for tracks that contained loops.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash if user clicks on any of the main menus while booting up
Fixed: The 'F3' hot key symbol did not display in some popup menus.
Fixed: For some cases of opening or saving a file (eg choosing VST plugins), the file dialog would not open in the right directory.
Fixed: Audio Unit plugins would be erased from the exclude list while booting up Band-in-a-Box.
Fixed: Plugins on the Thru track should not be removed when loading a style or song.
Fixed: Options > Return to Factory Settings... would cause various problems (eg. the chord sheet would be squished to the left).

Save On Mac Xtra Styles PAK 3 Bundles - 1 Week Left!

There's just one more week to save on Xtra Styles PAK 3 bundles for your Band-in-a-Box®!

Xtra Styles PAK 3 includes 160 new RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and Americana! These new Xtra Styles use recently implemented RealDrums features in Band-in-a-Box 2017 - like half-time/double-time mode and Multi-Drums. Get all 4 volumes in the All Xtra Styles PAK 3 on sale for just $29 (Reg. $49) during our Xtra Styles Special!

If you are looking for more RealStyles, the complete set of Xtra Styles PAKs 1-3 (with all 485 RealStyles) is available for only $99 during our Xtra Styles special.

Special offers end July 31st!

Already purchased Xtra Styles PAK 3? Submit your original song to the Xtra Styles PAK 3 Contest for your chance to WIN a $150 USD coupon to use on your next PG Music Inc. product purchase.

Save On Windows Xtra Styles PAK 3 Bundles - 1 Week Left!

There's just one more week to save on Xtra Styles PAK 3 bundles for your Band-in-a-Box®!

Xtra Styles PAK 3 includes 160 new RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and Americana! These new Xtra Styles use recently implemented RealDrums features in Band-in-a-Box 2017 - like half-time/double-time mode and Multi-Drums. Get all 4 volumes in the All Xtra Styles PAK 3 on sale for just $29 (Reg. $49) during our Xtra Styles Special!

If you are looking for more RealStyles, the complete set of Xtra Styles PAKs 1-3 (with all 485 RealStyles) is available for only $99 during our Xtra Styles special.

Special offers end July 31st!

Already purchased Xtra Styles PAK 3? Submit your original song to the Xtra Styles PAK 3 Contest for your chance to WIN a $150 USD coupon to use on your next PG Music Inc. product purchase.

Mac RealTracks Patch Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac users can download the latest RealTracks patch here.

This patch includes RealTracks and MIDI SuperTracks updates we have made since the previous March 22 patch. The files updated are largely those that were released with Band-in-a-Box® 2017, although there are updates to some earlier ones as well.

Added: Guitar, Nylon, Rhythm AndesHuayno Ev16 085 now has complete transcriptions added and can be viewed in the notation or lead sheet window.
Fixed: _BHALSA (Waltz) Style was not set to ¾ time, and now uses a more appropriate Bass
Fixed: _BLUESKY.STY mistakenly had drums in style.
Fixed: _CASUALE Style mistakenly included MIDI Guitar and Strings tracks.
Fixed: _RAMPART Style Demo mistakenly had the Master Volume turned way up.
Fixed: =JOLEO_B did not allow user volume changes
Fixed: Bass, Electric, RockPickedA-B Ev 165 and RT 2589 Bass, Electric, PunkFuzzPickedA-B Ev 165 had timing issues with some of the riffs.
Fixed: Charango, Rhythm AndesHuayno Ev16 085 was not playing sus chords.
Fixed: Guitar, Electric, Soloist JazzRock16thsJon Ev16 090 and RT2605 Guitar, Electric, Soloist JazzRockShuffleJon Sw 130 now have Hi-Q transcriptions. Now when the tablature or notation is viewed it will be more accurate and include bends, slides and other improvements.
Fixed: Loop file 'Trance - kit3beat135b ev16 tempo' was missing.
Fixed: NashvilleBrushesEasyBluegrass had the wrong audition demos.
Fixed: Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm TrainBeatMike12-key Ev 16 090 was playing some slash chords.
Fixed: RealTracks Audition files for "Roadhouse" Resonator Guitar were mixed up.
Fixed: Some direct input files were mislabeled for the RealTracks style 'Guitar, Electric, Rhythm NewOrleansMardiGras Ev16 085'.
Fixed: Some direct input files were missing for the RealTracks style 'Guitar, Electric, Soloist GypsyClassicQuinn Sw 220'.
Fixed: Some small memo typos Fixed including _RESFOLK* _RESWALZ* _BLUESKY*
Fixed: Some style mistakenly specified held chords for tracks. E.G. _NOCARES, _SONGBRD, _SOULPOP, _DAYSEND, _CARRYON
Fixed: The endings were not working properly in the A substyle for two variations in the RealDrums DrivingPop8ths^.
Fixed: The notation subdivision for the RealStyle _ASTRAL.STY was previously incorrect, and has been Fixed.
Fixed: The RealTrack that use Shots and Holds 345 were playing some incorrect chords
Improved: Over 90 RealTracks and MIDI SuperTracks have had the option for a 'Simple' arrangement Added. Now these RealTracks will play without embellishment when the Simple option is selected in the RealTracks picker.
Improved: More than 20 RealTracks now have Transcriptions enabled and the Simple option available.
Improved: Pianohld.sty has been improved, with better voice leading for the held piano.

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows - Build 467 Patch Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows customers can install the latest patch update (Build 467) here.

Added: Several requested 'genre' user categories in the StylePicker.
Changed: "Tempo/Pitch Stretching Quality" now defaults to medium instead of low.
Fixed: "No Loop (WAV) chosen for this track" would display for some tracks in the Create Multi-Drums dialog.
Fixed: An "out of memory" error would occur in very long songs with lots of RealTracks. Some tracks would be silent when this happened. This might still happen, but the song size limit has doubled.
Fixed: Booting up Band-in-a-Box by double-clicking on a song file would cause any song-based RealTracks to be removed.
Fixed: Drag and drop would not extract the selected region on the chord sheet.
Fixed: If there were any style changes in a song, the Bar Settings layer would display "Style changes" on any bar that had any other type of changes (eg tempo, volume).
Fixed: Sometimes RealTracks would play a dominant 7th chord for plain major triad song chords.
Fixed: The Event List editor window would only work for the Melody or Soloist tracks.
Improved: Elastique has been updated from version 3.1.8 to 3.1.11.

Windows RealTracks Patch Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows users can download the latest RealTracks patch here.

This patch includes RealTracks and MIDI SuperTracks updates we have made since the previous March 22 patch. The files updated are largely those that were released with Band-in-a-Box® 2017, although there are updates to some earlier ones as well.

Summary of changes:
Added: Guitar, Nylon, Rhythm AndesHuayno Ev16 085 now has complete transcriptions Added and can be viewed in the notation or lead sheet window.
Fixed: _BHALSA (Waltz) Style was not set to ¾ time, and now uses a more appropriate Bass
Fixed: _BLUESKY.STY mistakenly had drums in style.
Fixed: _CASUALE Style mistakenly included MIDI Guitar and Strings tracks.
Fixed: _RAMPART Style Demo mistakenly had the Master Volume turned way up.
Fixed: =JOLEO_B did not allow user volume changes
Fixed: Bass, Electric, RockPickedA-B Ev 165 and RT 2589 Bass, Electric, PunkFuzzPickedA-B Ev 165 had timing issues with some of the riffs.
Fixed: Charango, Rhythm AndesHuayno Ev16 085 was not playing sus chords.
Fixed: Guitar, Electric, Soloist JazzRock16thsJon Ev16 090 and RT2605 Guitar, Electric, Soloist JazzRockShuffleJon Sw 130 now have Hi-Q transcriptions. Now when the tablature or notation is viewed it will be more accurate and include bends, slides and other improvements.
Fixed: Loop file 'Trance - kit3beat135b ev16 tempo' was missing.
Fixed: NashvilleBrushesEasyBluegrass had the wrong audition demos.
Fixed: Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm TrainBeatMike12-key Ev 16 090 was playing some slash chords.
Fixed: RealTracks Audition files for "Roadhouse" Resonator Guitar were mixed up.
Fixed: Some direct input files were mislabeled for the RealTracks style 'Guitar, Electric, Rhythm NewOrleansMardiGras Ev16 085'.
Fixed: Some direct input files were missing for the RealTracks style 'Guitar, Electric, Soloist GypsyClassicQuinn Sw 220'.
Fixed: Some small memo typos Fixed including _RESFOLK* _RESWALZ* _BLUESKY*
Fixed: Some style mistakenly specified held chords for tracks. E.G. _NOCARES, _SONGBRD, _SOULPOP, _DAYSEND, _CARRYON
Fixed: The endings were not working properly in the A substyle for two variations in the RealDrums DrivingPop8ths^.
Fixed: The notation subdivision for the RealStyle _ASTRAL.STY was previously incorrect, and has been Fixed.
Fixed: The RealTrack that use Shots and Holds 345 were playing some incorrect chords
Improved: Over 90 RealTracks and MIDI SuperTracks have had the option for a 'Simple' arrangement Added. Now these RealTracks will play without embellishment when the Simple option is selected in the RealTracks picker.
Improved: More than 20 RealTracks now have Transcriptions enabled and the Simple option available.
Improved: Pianohld.sty has been improved, with better voice leading for the held piano.

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac - Build 180 Patch Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac customers can install the latest patch update (Build 180) here.

Added: Several requested 'genre' user categories in the StylePicker.
Added: Web links have been added to the Help menu.
Changed: "Tempo/Pitch Stretching Quality" now defaults to medium instead of low.
Fixed: "Save all tracks as M4A file..." was missing from the Master context menu.
Fixed: Drag and drop would fail if the song title contained a period (eg "Up with the Trees - BGRock.Sty Demo").
Fixed: Drag and drop would fail if the song title contained invalid file name characters (eg slashes).
Fixed: For localized versions, the long style name would be wrong on the main screen.
Fixed: If a flash message was showing, copy/cut/paste commands would not work in dialogs.
Fixed: If there were any style changes in a song, the Bar Settings layer would display "Style changes" on any bar that had any other type of changes (eg tempo, volume).
Fixed: New lines for sections on the chord sheet was not allowed when the song had repeats.
Fixed: Some hints in the Chord Builder were not showing transposed notes, and a % symbol was showing instead.
Fixed: Sometimes RealTracks would play a dominant 7th chord for plain major triad song chords.
Fixed: The Chord Builder would not update to the current bar/beat when re-opening the window.
Fixed: The Play-Loop button (in normal screen mode) was not displaying a check mark.
Fixed: The Play-Loop popup menu was all blank.
Fixed: The popup menus in the Chord Builder were not showing any chord descriptions.
Fixed: The right arrow key would not work in the chord sheet during playback if "MIDI Keyboard Wizard Enabled" was enabled.
Improved: Elastique has been updated from version 3.1.8 to 3.1.11.
Updated: Activation dialog has been improved.

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