Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#357711 07/18/16 07:00 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
I am working with someone and trying to have them see the rhythm of a song's melody without being influenced by the pitch. Is there a simple way to move all of a melodies notes on to a single "pitch?" If I could figure that out, I would just assign it to percussion instrument.

I would like this person to realize the patterns of a melody rhythmically. It's a fun project...just not sure how to put them all on a single pitch. Then I could take any song he likes and do this!

Right now he is frustrated because he isn't really seeing the patterns.

If this has to be done is some simple non PG product that would be ok. If however, something in PG could do this, it's preferred!

Thanks!


Chad (Hope that makes it easier)

TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Caaron,

This might do the job for you...

I nearly always enter my melodies into BIAB as a melodic rhythm in midi on a single note. In BIAB's notation editor, I then drag the notes' pitches up and down to shape the melody. I've found that this is the quickest way to do things (for me at least).

How I enter the melody is simply to record midi in BIAB. For the input, I use the bottom row of keys (C, V, B, N...) to play a note; I usually use M. I set BIAB playing and then tap the rhythm of the words in time to my singing them. This creates the rhythm of the words all notated on a single note.

To do this...

Activate the Keyboard Wizard by following 1, 2 on the image below.



It's then the option show on the second image below...



Once the above is done, set midi recording, get BIAB playing and tap out the rhythm using M (or B or V, etc.). (For your reference, the bottom two rows of the computer's input QWERTY keyboard become a simplified piano keyboard when the Keyboard Wizard is activated: the bottom row = white keys, next row up (ASDF...) = black keys.)

If you then go to notation view (Melody track), you'll see the notes. When you playback, BIAB will also track the notes so that you can see where it's up to (just turn the volume down so that you don't hear the monotonous single note).

Don't forget to deactivate the Keyboard Wizard once the melodic rhythm is recorded.

Regards,
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,899
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,899
Caaron. Send it to me and I will put it into Melodyne for you. Probably just the vocal will be best. I will also send you screen shots of the blobs. joanne at joannecooper dot co dot za


LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024.
https://lyriclab.net
Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files
https://playiit.com/
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
What DAW, if any, are you using? Many DAWs can do this, it just takes a little work.

As JosieC indicates Melodyne can do it. It you have Sonar it can do it as Sonar includes a version of Melodyne. I'm sure other pitch correction software, DAW or wave editors can do it.

I would, in Sonar, convert the lead vocal to MIDI then merge all of the different MIDI notes to one. This would give you one MIDI track with the exact timing as the vocal. Just choose your MIDI sound and you are all set. If you wish I could do this for you.

Ps- Probably that is what JosieC would do for you also.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
I don't understand what "the rhythm of the song's melody" describes. Do you want him to sing a melody precisely based on a transcription? What would be needed beyond having access to the melody and the correct chords at the appropriate key? Pardon my ignorance -- seriously. Just curious.

Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,580
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,580
Quote:
I don't understand what "the rhythm of the song's melody" describes.


Sometimes when we have some complex rhythms, I have my choir just "say" (not sing) the words to the rhythm of the melody to make sure they understand the rhythm. It's not on pitch, but each word will land where it's supposed to. Or sometimes we'll clap the rhythm of the melody to get a sense of where all the notes hit.

I think that's what's being asked here. Convert that melody rhythm so that, for example, a percussion instrument just hit the rhythm of the melody without the actual notes.

That way, you might have:

Some-where o-ver the rain-bow... which is:
half-half-quarter-eighth-eighth-quarter-quarter

so the percussion instrument just hits that:
half-half-quarter-eighth-eighth-quarter-quarter

(without actually doing the melody notes).


John

Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD
Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA

BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK

http://www.sus4chord.com
jford #357856 07/19/16 09:31 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Originally Posted By: jford
Quote:
I don't understand what "the rhythm of the song's melody" describes.


Sometimes when we have some complex rhythms, I have my choir just "say" (not sing) the words to the rhythm of the melody to make sure they understand the rhythm. It's not on pitch, but each word will land where it's supposed to. Or sometimes we'll clap the rhythm of the melody to get a sense of where all the notes hit.

I think that's what's being asked here. Convert that melody rhythm so that, for example, a percussion instrument just hit the rhythm of the melody without the actual notes.

That way, you might have:

Some-where o-ver the rain-bow... which is:
half-half-quarter-eighth-eighth-quarter-quarter

so the percussion instrument just hits that:
half-half-quarter-eighth-eighth-quarter-quarter

(without actually doing the melody notes).



Thanks! If I now correctly understand it is what Janice and I would call phrasing.

Bud

Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,580
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,580
"Phrasing" - good term to use; I should have used it.

Thanks, Bud

Now, hopefully, that's what it's actually all about (other than the hokey pokey, of course). laugh


John

Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD
Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA

BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK

http://www.sus4chord.com
Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
Wow! Talk about a lot of great responses! Thanks for that! Gotta love this forum! smile

Actually, I have someone I am working with that understand the scale side of music theory very well. Where he struggles is coming up with motifs. Then tend to go MUCH longer than you would ever sing. There isn't a whole lot that recognizable from repetition, and when it does, it's mostly by accident.

He is trying to learn how to develop short phrases/hooks. To me, it seems like he is mostly lacking the rhythmic side of things. When to stop a phrase, how much space to use, when to repeat, when to deviate. That is an art all on it's own.

So, I had the idea of just taking the midi vocal track of songs he likes and putting them all on a single note and percussion sound. Then he can visually appreciate what is going on. I strongly feel, he would see the rhythmic patterns and variations pretty easily.

Right now he is just too caught up in hearing what note it is.

That being said, the short version is I am looking for a simple way to move all of the notes in a melody to a sing note.

I thought I remembered seeing in some program, possibly rb, that you could select an entire line of midi notes on a single pitch and move them to any other pitch. So we would just have to do that for each note in the scale. That would be fine. I just don't remember what program on saw it on. Similar to how you could select a whole line of ride cymbal notes and drag them to the hi-hat line.

Any ideas?

Thanks again!

Last edited by HearToLearn; 07/19/16 02:32 PM.

Chad (Hope that makes it easier)

TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
I think there're both gifts and training. Training can enhance a gift but the less the gift the less training can accomplish. Janice and I talk a lot about soul. If a singer has soul we like it - irrespective of genre. And I suspect that at the core of what we call soul is the manner in which the singer phrases. The subtleties that allow the singer to make the song his/hers. A lot of our favorite singers don't have the best technical vocal chops around...but they know their strengths and avoid their weaknesses. When they sing a song they own it. Pardon the ole part ramble. About the only style of singing, regardless of genre, that we absolutely cannot handle is the "follow the bouncing ball" stuff. All with the usual big FWIW.

Bud

Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
Originally Posted By: HearToLearn
......

So, I had the idea of just taking the midi vocal track of songs he likes and putting them all on a single note and percussion sound. Then he can visually appreciate what is going on. I strongly feel, he would see the rhythmic patterns and variations pretty easily.
.........


Have you tried this?

DL a MIDI version of a song he likes; there are lot of free ones that you can DL. In your DAW (RB and BiaB can do this) take the melody line, using the piano roll view put all of the notes onto one line then assign that line to a drum/percussion sound. Save only the melody and you will have what you want.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,580
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,580
A quick way to do this would be to open the song in RealBand, setup a MIDI percussion track, and then just record the phrasing of the song using a single note on an external keyboard to trigger the percussion to play. You don't even need to know the notes to the melody, just the rhythm of the melody. It takes as long as it takes to play the song. Even if you don't get it perfect, it should be close enough for what you are trying to do.


John

Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD
Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA

BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK

http://www.sus4chord.com
MarioD #357947 07/20/16 04:55 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
Quote:
Have you tried this?

DL a MIDI version of a song he likes; there are lot of free ones that you can DL. In your DAW (RB and BiaB can do this) take the melody line, using the piano roll view put all of the notes onto one line then assign that line to a drum/percussion sound. Save only the melody and you will have what you want.


This is exactly what I'm talking about doing smile I'm just curious if there is a function in realband that allows you to select all of the notes on say "D" and drag them to "C". Then drag all the notes on "E" and drag them to "C"...and repeat that process until all of the notes are on "C"...of course then assigning those notes to a non pitched sound, like a drum of some short.

Can you select a all notes on a single pitch and move them to another in RB, or is there another program to do it? Just looking for simple. I would even prefer something free as then he could do this himself.


Chad (Hope that makes it easier)

TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
[quote=HearToLearn....

Can you select a all notes on a single pitch and move them to another in RB, or is there another program to do it? Just looking for simple. I would even prefer something free as then he could do this himself. [/quote]

I don't use RB but I did just experiment with it and yes you can. In the piano roll view and on the left side keyboard click on the key that note you want to move is on. They will change color. Press and hold the shift key and with the mouse over a note move that note to the desired note. All of the notes will move with it. Do this for each different sets of notes.

I hope this is not too confusing! Someone with more experience will probably have a better way.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
MarioD #358060 07/21/16 07:13 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
Originally Posted By: MarioD

I don't use RB but I did just experiment with it and yes you can. In the piano roll view and on the left side keyboard click on the key that note you want to move is on. They will change color. Press and hold the shift key and with the mouse over a note move that note to the desired note. All of the notes will move with it. Do this for each different sets of notes.

I hope this is not too confusing! Someone with more experience will probably have a better way.


Perfect! Thanks much! I will wait and see if there are any free alternatives, otherwise I do now have something that will do the job. MUCH appreciation Mario and every else too! smile


Chad (Hope that makes it easier)

TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,390
Posts732,461
Members38,441
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
Ernest J, ingridguerci94, Izzy, BenChaz, Csofi
38,440 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 113
dcuny 87
rsdean 83
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5