Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#360436 08/11/16 03:09 AM
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
We are using BIAB 2015 in our studio.
We love the RealTracks feature in BIAB.

I am looking over all the new RealTrack series that are being released on the website.

I can't believe that the new RealTracks will only work with 2016 version.

What is this all about! We are not able to purchase new Real Tracks.

Software that is a year old cannot play the newly released RealTracks!

Something is wrong here.

As a long time user of BIAB - since the DOS days - I find this very upsetting.

Has anyone tested this?

This is unethical in my mind.


Last edited by europa_man; 08/11/16 03:22 AM.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Probably not unethical, just the reality of evolution of this and many other products.

Older version perhaps don't recognize some of the features of the newer realtracks, and don't know how to handle them, etc.

Newer versions are made to work with older and newer realtracks and therefore can handle both.

(You probably cannot open that latest MS Word .docx document with the version of Word that came with Windows 95. Same difference isn't it?)


BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
Hugh difference. We are talking about one year.

BIAB 2015 to BIAB 2016 is not Windows 95 to Windows 10!

Windows 95 was released August 24, 1995!

RealTracks are only audio files.

Last edited by europa_man; 08/11/16 04:03 AM.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,558
J
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,558
I use an old copy of Office and open new Word docx files using a free addon from Microsoft.

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Originally Posted By: europa_man
Hugh difference. We are talking about one year.

BIAB 2015 to BIAB 2016 is not Windows 95 to Windows 10!

Windows 95 was released August 24, 1995!

RealTracks are only audio files.

Maybe I should have used a later version than Windows 95 in my example.

I fully understand how new features might not be compatible with an earlier model, even if the older model is not that old. Simply put, if the functionality in the older version didn't anticipate requirements of newer features, then how could it accommodate them? Perhaps the program needs to know about every option beforehand, rather than loading them on the fly like a MIDI file. I'm not the developer so I cannot answer definitively.

Back on topic: My choice was to upgrade BiaB and take advantage of the newer RealTracks. Probably not what you want to hear, but at least everybody has that choice.

BTW: You're not alone. I've purchased this product only to find an update came out shortly after and I missed out on the new features.

We're of course only end-users like you. You could talk to PGM Support for more knowledge of the upgrade mechanisms, and what will work in your 2015 version.



BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Well, I feel your pain but the same thing happened in the audio world. The software operating systems went from 32 bits to 64 bits with the new release of a 64bit OS.

Suddenly, all of the software drivers that were 32 bit would not work on the 64 bit systems and lots of things would no longer work. You either had to buy the new product or get the fix if the programmers were feeling generous. If you bought within 12 months, they normally upgraded you for free, but beyond that.... nope.

Someone came out with J-bridge.... but the fact is manufacturers and programmers are upgrading and improving things all the time and while many times, the new stuff will work on the older platforms, some times it doesn't.

Just out of curiosity, have you asked support about this?


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,056
C
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
C
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,056
I seem to recall the RealTracks will work with older programs but will not integrate correctly with the Stylepicker and show up in searches.


BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Though I'm not certain because I only have the latest build of 2016, I think Charlie is correct. I thought newer 2016 RealTracks are selectable individually in 2015; it's just a case of having these newest XtraStyles show up, and for that new feature you need 2016.

In general, it's great when software is backward compatible, but there is never a guarantee it will be forward compatible.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
Thank you guys for the quick responses.

It's expensive to update.

You would think the core program of BiaB would last longer than a year and that you could buy additional packages along the way to enhance it.

One year is very short lifespan even for a software program.

I sure love my Cakewalk Pro Audio ver 9 for midi. Old but solid as a rock. I still use Sonar Producer 3 but Reaper is my DAW software.

Reasonable price - rock solid and free updates almost every month!
All BiaB RealTracks are saved as waves and imported into Reaper.

Works great.

BiaB now forces you to upgrade to use the new RealTracks.

Disappointed is the word I think is best to describe this problem and I'm a huge fan of BiaB since the 90's.

Thanks for the input.

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
It might be that just something simple like the "What add-ons do I have" function won't reflect the newer styles, or the demo won't play, but they may still be selectable from the StylePicker.

I asked the PG Support team what happens if you purchase a 2016 style. Would it still be usable by the 2015 program, even though there may be some limitations?

I'll report back what I find.

Trevor

Last edited by VideoTrack; 08/11/16 10:11 AM. Reason: Asked PG support for input

BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
As far as I recall, this is first time this has happened, and it's because of the new XtraStyles feature just added.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
M
Me Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
The Real Tracks are made by paying studio musicians and studio time. PG Music needs to be reimbursed for their time, no?

Sorry if Mis-interpreted your question? We have to pay for the latest and greatest.

Trax

You are correct. I thought you wanted the latest RTs for a freebie, I apologize. The 2016 RTs *should* work in Biab 2015.

Trax

Last edited by Me; 08/11/16 11:35 AM.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
You could use the 2016 RealTracks with 2015 but there are inconveniences. Dr. Peter Gannon says something here: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=323287&Searchpage=1&Main=47410&Words=realtracks&Search=true#Post323287

Sometimes evolution has new features where the code of the older version cannot handle newer developments. VideoTrack mentioned different Windows versions. I chime in but I'm using a different harmony. In Windows XP you could search for certain properties like title or certain keywords of files. You still can do this in Windows 10, but since Windows Vista you cannot see the respective entries of e.g. pdf-files anymore. Microsoft was wiping out lots of hours of work put in by users worldwide.

While evolution in software almost always make older files useless after one, two or maybe three generations; PGMusic so far establishes a backward compatibility to the oldest files.

If you need an example of bad customer relationship, Microsoft again jumps in as a volunteer. There are features in Access that we used in Access 2000 and could convey to 2003 but no version of Access later than that is able to run the procedures and there is no (!) conversion to newer functions. And to continue, it is no more possible to install Access 2000 on Windows version after XP -- well you can, but you cannot install any other software after Office 2000 is installed. It destroys the UAC.

Updates can be expensive. But often the most expensive update is the one we skip.


Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,256
OK, here's the official response from PGM Support:

The 2016 styles are technically usable in the 2015 software. However generally the 2016 styles are going to need to reference a 2016 Realtracks which the customer would not have unless they had purchased them separately.

Even it is still a bit of a grey area as the new Xtra Styles Pak states on the website it requires the latest build for 2016.

I would suggest the customer upgrade the full software if he wishes to use the new styles. If he were to upgrade to an UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK or Audiophile Edition they would then have all the new styles and RealTracks would be included in the 2016 upgrade.


BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7

Thank you going the extra mile on this.
I'm still a little confused.
All I want to do is go online and purchase some of the latest RealTrack packages that caught my interest.

I will update to 2016 on my own time.
I feel like we are being forced to update to keep up with the new stuff.
I can't state it any stronger but I'm using ver. from 2015!

I'm not using Band in a Box 2001!

I'm tempted to order some RealTracks for the 2016 ver just to try & see if they will work.

Thanks again.

Great forum support! Appreciate it.



Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
OK, here's the official response from PGM Support:

The 2016 styles are technically usable in the 2015 software. However generally the 2016 styles are going to need to reference a 2016 Realtracks which the customer would not have unless they had purchased them separately.

Even it is still a bit of a grey area as the new Xtra Styles Pak states on the website it requires the latest build for 2016.

I would suggest the customer upgrade the full software if he wishes to use the new styles. If he were to upgrade to an UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK or Audiophile Edition they would then have all the new styles and RealTracks would be included in the 2016 upgrade.

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
The RealTracks will work with 2015.

What everybody else is referring to is the styles. There is a change in the picture and your 2015 StylePicker has difficulties to address the 2016 styles. But the RealTracks are not affected.

It is just bad luck on your side that some major changes are done while you're entering the (moving) train.

You said that updating is expensive. Since I don't know you and your circumstances I cannot argue. I only can state some facts. The current price for the update is USD 129. The last years the update price during the discount season was USD 99 (if you had the current version of that time).

You don't have to buy the complete version, the update, called the PlusPAK, is sufficient. This PlusPAK also includes all the regular styles and RealTracks that are new with BIAB 2016.

Having said this, there is a 49-PAK with some more RealTracks which is available in August 2016, because of the new Xtra styles that reference some of these RealTracks. These may or may not be included in the 2017 version.


Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,214
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,214
I have BIAB 2011 Pro and bought a couple of style packs a couple of months ago - they aren't the newest sets but they work well with my 2011.


Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 152
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 152
Hi All,
The new extra stylepak is brilliant well worth the money. Depending on circumstances of course, I don't feel the upgrades along with new real tracks once a year are expensive. PG have to pay their staff and developing costs and musicians to give us such a great program.
Usually we have had an upgrade mid year I am guessing PG are running out of ideas of what to add to BinB so I assume in the future we will be offered more and more of these new extra styles, so worth upgrading to 2016 I feel.
Regards Jeff (UK)

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7
Thanks for the reply.
This makes sense to me.
How could the "RealTracks" not work?
I never mentioned the word "styles".
I do know the difference.

Please you check out:
63 New Rock-Pop RealTracks in Sets 228-235... (Rock-Pop RealPAK Vol 12)
Requires Band-in-a-Box 2016 or higher in the description.
And it's in red.

I would like to think that they would like to be able to sell these new RealTracks to customers who purchased their software one year earlier.

I hope your clarification is correct.



Originally Posted By: GHinCH
The RealTracks will work with 2015.

What everybody else is referring to is the styles. There is a change in the picture and your 2015 StylePicker has difficulties to address the 2016 styles. But the RealTracks are not affected.

It is just bad luck on your side that some major changes are done while you're entering the (moving) train.

You said that updating is expensive. Since I don't know you and your circumstances I cannot argue. I only can state some facts. The current price for the update is USD 129. The last years the update price during the discount season was USD 99 (if you had the current version of that time).

You don't have to buy the complete version, the update, called the PlusPAK, is sufficient. This PlusPAK also includes all the regular styles and RealTracks that are new with BIAB 2016.

Having said this, there is a 49-PAK with some more RealTracks which is available in August 2016, because of the new Xtra styles that reference some of these RealTracks. These may or may not be included in the 2017 version.

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Well, this is what I take from Peter Gannon in the thread that I linked previously ...

(... and from others who bought them with versions prior 2016 and posted it here in the forum somewhere ...)

... and there is always the money back guarantee.

Last edited by GHinCH; 08/14/16 04:13 AM.

Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,394
Posts732,484
Members38,441
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy, BenChaz, Csofi
38,440 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 112
dcuny 87
rsdean 82
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5