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#362249 - 08/25/16 02:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2552
"it would be great if you can redesign the GUI. In this state it looks old-fashionned, more like a random collection of functions and is therefore not very productive.

There are great GUI designs out there (Cubase, ...) which you could imitate.
"

This goes way back (2008), users come in, see the problems, tell the truth to make it better, get attacked, give up and leave.
Where has it left the software ? stuck in the past !
It's an ingrained culture that has blocked the software from being ahead of the rest.
Far canal, I can see that clearly from 5,000 miles away !

GUI allow Customization of layout and SKINS
for the old users set in their ways and pg, scared change will loose the old users here and chapter 11:
Options > Skins > Classic Skin (Lots of Big Colorful Buttons with Names)
for the rest of the world that don't need big bitmaps, any Moveable Layout/Skin you like for 2017 !

But hey don't come hassling me get on over to the Reaper forum and put up the DOS BLOCKS there and get them to go backwards, they will love you for sure.

"Ring out the old
Ring in the new

Ring out the false
Ring in the true"
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#362255 - 08/25/16 04:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17418
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
This is funny that you might think we longtime users haven't commented on the GUI of BIAB before 2008. I can't prove it because you can't search that far back, but many of us were making suggestions long before the current forum software was installed in 2000.
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#362260 - 08/25/16 05:16 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Pipeline]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8210
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
"it would be great if you can redesign the GUI. In this state it looks old-fashionned, more like a random collection of functions and is therefore not very productive.

Here's where we are really working from the same page. I've put a big effort into promoting ideas for changes that the UI desperately needs.



I won't pretend. It reeks of legacy DOS and still has some clumsy non-intuitive menus. From the sample concept I prepared, barely a word has been sent in reply from PGM Staff.

There's a time-warp thing happening here, and it's holding the product back.

This is not just my view. I can demonstrate other real-world statements that have been mentioned where sales are jeopardized because new and potential users are simply put off by the appearance.

Sometimes you have to be direct, because being blunt and direct is the best way to be. The product is great, and is being improved all of the time. The single feature that desperately needs attention is the UI.

Fresh new inspiration is seriously needed.

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#362269 - 08/25/16 07:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Matt Finley]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11209
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
This is funny that you might think we longtime users haven't commented on the GUI of BIAB before 2008. I can't prove it because you can't search that far back, but many of us were making suggestions long before the current forum software was installed in 2000.


I am one of those longtime and vocal users that want a number of changes in BiaB. I think many of you know what they are wink
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#362281 - 08/25/16 08:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17418
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
And there has never been a cross word by Mario while making those suggestions. That's what I most admire.
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#362302 - 08/25/16 10:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10542
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Well, we did get one feature that made it less clumsy (which was a frequent request of mine): we don't have to type chords into a little box that is hard to see, much less harder to find, and not located close to the cell in which we wanted to enter the chord. smile


I personally don't care if the UI looks dated, per se, but do have issues with things that affect consistency and redundancy:

* if you want to see the Thru or Audio track on the mixer, then you have to extend the mixer down, and now get the ugly grey space between the mixer and the chord grid. Why not be able to see all the tracks in the mixer all the time, as well as the chord grid
* there shouldn't be a static mixer and a different floating mixer; there should be one mixer that is either docked or undocked.
* while there have been some menu improvements, need to do a lot more to remove redundancies. For example, the "File Menu" has "Save Song, "Save Song As...", and "Save Special". And then if you drill into "Save Special", you get (among other things) "Send to SoundCloud.com as .wav", "Send to SoundCloud.com as .wma", "Send to SoundCloud.com as .mp3", "Send to SoundCloud.com as .mp4", "Send to SoundCloud.com as .m4a". Couldn't we just have a single "Send to SoundCloud", and select the file format via a drop down filter box (like you get when you do a "File Open" to decide which kind of file you want to work with)
* we need a common look and feel between all the "pickers" and all the "lists"
* we need to be able to customize toolbars, as well as allow them to be docked or undocked.
* allow the toolbars to use large or small icons (that way, you can get all of them on the screen by using small icons)

Just a few examples, there are many more.

I don't care what the graphic pictures are or the screen layout, but it should be consistent across similar functions. I would think that would not be that difficult to achieve. I'm okay that the BIAB appearance is somewhat unique; so are the other the other major apps, when you get down to it. Sonar's Skylight interface is not like the other DAW interfaces, so different is okay, as far as I'm concerned.

But at lease make things consistent and remove/collapse the redundancies.
_________________________
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HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
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#362308 - 08/25/16 10:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: jr335]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2552
Originally Posted By: jr335
Sorry I was expecting to get jumped on for criticizing BIAB as usually happens here.....


He is only a Newbie , how dare he come here criticizing and not being nice, get rid of him !
4 Post, well it must of worked.

"as usually happens around here" Man that is still going on to this very Day !
Just think how good it could of been 8 years later if the words were heeded then.

I think it's all the niceness and denial that keeps something that can be incredible stuck in the past through ignorance.

No wonder these guys leave, taking all of that year in year out for telling the absolute truth and speaking out through shear frustration.

Even Blind Harry could see that.

There needs to be a collective quantum shift in thinking, not tomorrow, not the next day but NOW.
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#362312 - 08/25/16 11:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17418
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
If you still think there is denial or ignorance, then I fear you are missing what many of us have been saying. Most of us have been using niceness, though. Of that we are guilty.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#362317 - 08/25/16 11:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: jford]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2198
Originally Posted By: jford
For example, the "File Menu" has "Save Song, "Save Song As...", and "Save Special". And then if you drill into "Save Special", you get (among other things) "Send to SoundCloud.com as .wav", "Send to SoundCloud.com as .wma", "Send to SoundCloud.com as .mp3", "Send to SoundCloud.com as .mp4", "Send to SoundCloud.com as .m4a". Couldn't we just have a single "Send to SoundCloud", and select the file format via a drop down filter box (like you get when you do a "File Open" to decide which kind of file you want to work with)

This is a perfect example of programmers adding "features" that are not needed and serve only to impress novices and clutter the interface for everyone! (Sorry if that does not sound "nice"!) We absolutely do NOT need any automated features to send our files to some 3rd-party service that may be out of business next year anyway! But these things get added and then listed as a new feature.

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#362334 - 08/25/16 01:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: jford]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8210
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Strongly agree with you John F. One point to clarify, when I mention 'UI' I'm not just referring to 'graphics', I'm discussing the entire User Interface, including menu's, options, functions layout etc.
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#362338 - 08/25/16 01:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Matt Finley]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8210
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
This is funny that you might think we longtime users haven't commented on the GUI of BIAB before 2008. I can't prove it because you can't search that far back, but many of us were making suggestions long before the current forum software was installed in 2000.

It's interesting reading back through the entire dialog in this and other similar-topic threads of the statements continually put forward by users just identifying the issues and seeking improvements in the UI.
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#362345 - 08/25/16 01:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
I've extensively used BIAB since version 7 (that's 18 years), I've written 3rd party software for it, I've actively promoted it between music students and fellow musicians during all that years and I've always said that buying BIAB is one of the best investments that a musician can do for his musical education, if not the best.

But when I've showed BIAB to music students I've always seen the same reaction: they are amazed with what the program can do, but when they start to try learning it, 90% of them just give up because they think it's very complicated and unintuitive. And I must agree with them. That's why I've said for years that the program needs a brand new GUI, from a fresh perspective. Sorry if saying that is not nice, but it's the truth.

PS: And yes, even if it's not the norm here (95% of the people in this forum are just great), I've seen several people here being harassed just because they were (respectfully) criticizing the program, or exposing some bugs, and I've seen some of them leaving the forum just because of that. I myself have been insulted here just for reporting bugs and program limitations that should be obvious for anyone with a minimum of computer experience. Respect and niceness has always two sides.

I wish this was a forum where mature users could report and discuss bugs of their favorite program without being insulted by a small handful of hardcore fans.






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#362350 - 08/25/16 02:03 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10542
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:
Strongly agree with you John F. One point to clarify, when I mention 'UI' I'm not just referring to 'graphics', I'm discussing the entire User Interface, including menu's, options, functions layout etc.


Also agree; I was merely presenting a handful of things that to me seemed like low hanging fruit. And that was without the benefit of the UI in front of me (well, I did refer to the user manual a little). I think there's a lot that can be done in all the areas you mentioned that doesn't require a total rewrite, but does require careful attention to making sure features don't break.

And as for me, I'll stay nice (at least I think I am, although on occasion I can get a little sarcastic). And there's that old meme about honey versus vinegar...
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web-http://www.sus4chord.com

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#362360 - 08/25/16 02:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2552
Can I have my "Unfavorite Things"? by VideoTrack

Well asked ! keep it up to bring about solid change.
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#362365 - 08/25/16 03:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13456
We are planning to improve the top area of the screen, to make the top toolbar area configurable and make a floating mixer that looks the same as the fixed mixer.

Most of the GUI complaints are concerned with that. We welcome all suggestions for the GUI.
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PG Music Inc.

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#362366 - 08/25/16 03:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Cerio]
raymb1 Online   content
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2539
Loc: Sterling, Va
[quote=Cerio]I've extensively using BIAB since version 7 (that's 18 years), I've written 3rd party software for it, I've actively promoting it between music students and fellow musicians during all that years and I've always said that buying BIAB is one of the best investments that a musician can do for himself., if not the best.

But when I've showed BIAB to music students I've always seen the same reaction: they are amazed with what the program can do, but when they start to try learning it, 90% of them just give up because they think it's very complicated and unintuitive. And I must agree with them. That's why I've said for years that the program need a brand new GUI, from a fresh perspective. Sorry if saying that is not nice, but it's the truth.

PS: And yes, even if it's not the norm here (95% of the people in this forum are just great), I've seen several people here being harassed just because they were (respectfully) criticizing the program, or exposing some bugs, and I've seen some of them leaving the forum just because of that. I myself have been insulted here just for reporting bugs and program limitations that should be obvious for anyone with a minimum of computer experience. Respect and niceness has always two sides.

I wish this was a forum where mature users could report and discuss bugs of their favorite program without being insulted by a small handful hardcore fans.

To be honest with you Cerio, it could be a language and cultural difference. There have been times when you've come across as demanding, insulting and sarcastic.





Edited by raymb1 (08/25/16 05:51 PM)
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#362369 - 08/25/16 03:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: DunedinDragon]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2552
Originally Posted By: DunedinDragon
Quote:
Confusion is solved by study and learning.


Which I would strongly recommend for the BIAB product development team!!


DunedinDragon Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/11/2009
Posts: 6

Why's he gone ?

Originally Posted By: Cerio

they are amazed with what the program can do, but when they start to try learning it, 90% of them just give up because they think it's very complicated and unintuitive.


Same in my experience, good way to keep the 10%, the old users that pg are worried about loosing and loose 90% of potential new customers, brilliant marketing.
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#362372 - 08/25/16 04:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Pipeline]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2552
"In my case, as long as BIAB works like I need it to, I don't care what it looks like. When I'm performing I'm not looking at my laptop anyway."

Options > Skins > Classic Skin


Attachments
BIAB Layout.jpg


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#362374 - 08/25/16 04:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Pipeline]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8210
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
quote] Same in my experience, good way to keep the 10%, the old users that pg are worried about loosing and loose 90% of potential new customers, brilliant marketing.[/quote]
I believe that PGM will not lose any old users, just gain more new ones. Win-win all the way.
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#362375 - 08/25/16 04:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Pipeline]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8210
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
"In my case, as long as BIAB works like I need it to, I don't care what it looks like. When I'm performing I'm not looking at my laptop anyway."

Options > Skins > Classic Skin


Can't possibly agree more! Provide options that users can decide on. Basic through to Advanced. Everyone's a winner.
_________________________

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