Page 6 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#362696 - 08/28/16 01:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: jazzmammal]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8306
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal

This forum is populated by old guys and I'm one of them. Simple as that. Old guys talking about old country music. It used to be jazz but these forums haven't been jazz orientated for years now.
...
See a pattern here? It's old and more old.

That's the problem with young people popping in briefly and leaving imho. An old looking GUI being talked about by their parents (or grandparents) and referencing ancient music to do it. What 25 year old cares about that? As far as they're concerned it's an old program for old people.

To bring this back around to the GUI, most of the old guys here are fine with it because they know it and are familiar with it. And, the number one biggest thing to old people is THEY DON'T LIKE CHANGE.

It would be remiss of me not to remark on some of the comments above.

Recently, I received an email separately from a potential user asking me my thoughts on the program. In the request, he wrote, and I quote, verbatim:
"When I first considered my BIAB purchase last year, the GUI of it was so displeasing to my tastes that I really had to talk myself into overlooking it in order to benefit from the marvelous things this product can do."

I'm trying to be objective rather than subjective. Is that why there are mostly "old guys" using this program? It turns potential customers away because the GUI is stuck in some previous decade?

Re statement: "And, the number one biggest thing to old people is THEY DON'T LIKE CHANGE." Well I have to presume that this is a personal view, 'cause it's certainly not one that I share. Change is inevitable. BiaB has changed continually since its inception. Everything has.

I have been a strong proponent for change to the User Interface for a long time. The reason is that I am passionate about the product, but recognize the limitations and the lost market potential because parts of it are stuck in the past.
The idea of Themes is excellent. Select a 'Stage Presentation', A 'Studio Presentation', an 'Original Presentation' and the user gets the display appearance that they want. Heck, they can even have an 'Old User presentation' option. Get rid of the color and bling, that's old school graphics nowadays. The product doesn't need bling to deliver.

It needs an overhaul, a fresh appearance. It needs to attract a new user base. Old users don't last forever... I know that at PGM must know that also.

Like I mentioned, maybe they can keep the an 'old school' theme just the same as it is now for 'old school' users, but please bring it in line with other modern user interfaces.

I wish they would be prepared to bring in some good modern graphics designers to take a serious look at how the interface can be radically improved. Yes I did user the word 'radically'

Trevor
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#362722 - 08/28/16 06:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: jazzmammal]
MarioD Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11336
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
......

I've brought this up a few times going back 8 years or so. I don't have the answer either because it's very difficult. Someway, somehow Biab needs to create styles for the current, as in RIGHT NOW, era. But how do you create a style for Uptown Funk? Or Drake? Or Galantis? And does anybody here even have a clue who I'm talking about? Hello...Is this thing on??

Here's a list of the Top 40 songs of 2015:

http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/the-official-top-40-most-streamed-songs-of-2015-revealed__13274/

Absolutely NOBODY on this forum has heard of any of these. Absolutely NOBODY on this forum cares either. Yeah I know, there might be one or two of you.

Biab needs to shift direction but how? If they did focus on these modern tunes and artists who would they sell it to? Would I care about that? No. Would all the 60+ year old country pickers? Heck no!

To bring this back around to the GUI, most of the old guys here are fine with it because they know it and are familiar with it. And, the number one biggest thing to old people is THEY DON'T LIKE CHANGE.

I'm a long time marketing guy and that's the problem going forward. The current stuff is great now, we all love most of it but give it another 10 years...

Bob


Bob, I will respectfully disagree with a couple of comments made here.

It doesn't matter if we have heard of those people or groups but it is important to know that others love them and want to imitate them. I for one would welcome them to the forums and listen to some of their music. BiaB users have already increased my music knowledge and enjoyment by their songs posted here. Even if I don't care for some at least I get exposed to them.

BiaB does not, IMHO, need to shift direction but it should include all genres of music, if possible, in both MIDI and RTs. As a fellow old timer we remember when BiaB was all jazz but as you stated country now is the most popular genre posted. If BiaB had not include country styles these musicians would not be posting today and PGMusic would not have sold their products to them. A win-win all around.

I am 70 so I think that I can be classified as an old timer here and I have no problem with change. I learned the new GUI in Sonar and thanks to you I have learned to use the portions of RB when I want to make certain changes to a BiaB file. I am also learning the wind controller and some keyboard. All of these and more can be challenging to an old simple guitarist like me but I accept those challenges.

Also BiaB has incorporated some change when they introduced super MIDI tracks and Sampletank. Now users are asking about MIDI channel selection and how to incorporate other VSTis in their music. PGMusic has responded with jBridge. Questions like these were never asked when BiaB was only GM.
I haven't even mentioned RTs and RDs!

The GUI does need changing. Menus should be revamped. For instance why two print menus?

I agree with you that slick alone is useless but slick with substance works. BiaB has the substance so adding slick would improve the product IMHO.

Peace
_________________________
My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#362725 - 08/28/16 07:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: guitarsonic]
raymb1 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2543
Loc: Sterling, Va
My personal opinion is that if a program does what I need it to, I don't really care what it looks like. I'm not looking at the GUI while I'm playing anyway. Ray
_________________________
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.

Top
#362732 - 08/28/16 08:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: raymb1]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8306
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: raymb1
My personal opinion is that if a program does what I need it to, I don't really care what it looks like. I'm not looking at the GUI while I'm playing anyway. Ray

Yes Ray, valid points, but respectfully you're not a 'potential new customer' and for your purposes, you don't 'need to look at the GUI', but other people use the product differently. They don't have the depth or breadth of knowledge as some others. They're entering from a different playing field. Maybe they've never played a note. Maybe they want to use BiaB to teach. Maybe they are songwriters who use it for creativeness. Everyone will have a different requirement, and rely on the user interface differently. Your points are perfectly valid. Many users will have different requirements though. A lot of these will rely on the GUI.
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#362772 - 08/28/16 03:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: VideoTrack]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6556
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Posting on forums is difficult because we can't post a complete story without writing a book and who has time for that?

What I posted is my observations of what's been on the forum and what I see as PGM's reactions to it. My comments about modern music is another observation. It's NOT what I personally would like to see. I've spent the last 20 years basically in management so I see things from a companies point of view rather than simply my own.

My personal thing goes back to the 80's when my parents started wearing those godawful polyester leisure suits with the white belts. I don't know if that ever caught on in OZ but this was the most ridiculous uncool thing I had ever seen and I vowed to never EVER be that guy. 12-15 years ago I had a closet full of these:

Tommy Bahama http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/tommy-bahama-mens-printed-hibiscus-shirt?ID=2822710&CategoryID=21707#fn=FEATURED-BRANDS%3Dtommy-bahama%26sp%3D1%26spc%3D170%26ruleId%3D85%26slotId%3D16%26rdppSegmentId%3DHO%3AST

A few years ago I began to notice the only people wearing these were bald old guys so I donated them all to Goodwill. I will NOT act or look my age but no I don't chase young women, I've been with the same one who's only 3 years younger than me for 26 years now.

I try to keep up with current trends including music. I try to dress appropriately. I observe what I consider to be hipper older folks dress like.

Here's where I'm at personally concerning PGM. I pretty much agree with all these wishlist items. I think P, C and J have good points. My only thing with them is their attitudes and method of posting about it. They seem to think that only by hammering their points again and again will there be any action. Not true.

They keep going on and on about it because they're not seeing change. I've been on this forum for over 10 years now and trust me guys Peter knows all about it. Not just now, he's know about these concerns for years. And, I'm not about to knock him or belittle him or any of that. It's his company, this is his forum, we're all here because of his good graces. He could shut us all down either individually or as a group at any time with zero warning.

Some of you guys here don't remember or were not around when I posted somewhat tongue-in-cheek about the "Awesome Cool Dude" version of Biab and I listed every possible unbelievably awesome and cool thing I could think of. That could be released alongside the current version so all the old guys who don't need it, don't care, don't want it wouldn't have to deal with it.

I've been all over this stuff some of you have been posting about recently for years now. It's called been there, done that. The difference between some of you and me is once Peter commented on these things 4, 6 or 10 years ago I don't make a big deal out of it all over again. He knows and he'll do whatever he thinks is best for HIS company.

Trev, I think your test video of what a new modern GUI should or could look like is absolutely beautiful and I said so at the time you first posted it.

I think PG should do whatever it takes to come up with a 64 bit version just because. Is it really needed? I doubt it but it makes the company look old.

They need to fix or rewrite or whatever it takes to make these programs work with full VST functionality.

They need to completely rewrite the Help files and reorganize all of the menus. I've written about that off and on for years as well. And at one point they did implement a couple of my suggestions and I took that as a small victory.

There's more points I could make, just refer to what I wrote about the book thing...

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Top
#362783 - 08/28/16 04:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: guitarsonic]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17516
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Bob, it's clear to me that a few of the newer posters have no clue about the effort we have expended on making suggestions to improve the program. We don't see less of a need for further improvement just because we feel a part of a team that is led by Dr. Gannon and has produced something unique and amazing.

I am dismayed, however, that to remain cool, I need to get rid of my leisure suits.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#362800 - 08/28/16 07:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: jazzmammal]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2224
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I pretty much agree with all these wishlist items. I think P, C and J have good points. My only thing with them is their attitudes and method of posting about it. They seem to think that only by hammering their points again and again will there be any action.

Things tend to get done when paying customers voice their concerns! And you gotta admit for every one of the few who complain there are at least an equal number who are quick to jump in and say they love the GUI so much they wish it was DOS based!

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I'm not about to knock him or belittle him or any of that. It's his company, this is his forum, we're all here because of his good graces. He could shut us all down either individually or as a group at any time with zero warning.

I've never intended to belittle Peter or his staff and if my comments upset or offended him or his team I apologize!! I am the first to acknowledge how amazing the RealTracks and RealTracks engine are! Peter deserves some kind of lifetime achievement award for this. Seriously! Nothing short of amazing.

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I've been all over this stuff some of you have been posting about recently for years now. It's called been there, done that.

And, because you have already complained plenty, newer users who notice the same issues should not voice their concerns?

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Trev, I think your test video of what a new modern GUI should or could look like is absolutely beautiful and I said so at the time you first posted it.

I agree 100% and I hope PG considers using it as inspiration! As a software dev it is always nice to have fans who sing your praises but IMHO it is far better to have fans who will give you honest feedback and even put in the extra effort to actually demonstrate possible improvements!

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I think PG should do whatever it takes to come up with a 64 bit version just because. Is it really needed? I doubt it but it makes the company look old.

Agreed!

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
They need to fix or rewrite or whatever it takes to make these programs work with full VST functionality.

Agreed!

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
They need to completely rewrite the Help files and reorganize all of the menus. I've written about that off and on for years as well.

Agreed!

So, it seems we agree on almost everything! As a PG customer who pays for my BIAB, upgrades, add-ons, etc. every year, surely that gives me a wee bit of room to suggest improvements in the public forum? (Even if you have already suggested them!) laugh

Top
#362804 - 08/28/16 08:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: guitarsonic]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6556
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
JJJ, love ya buddy, seriously but what's with all the !!! things?

Just write normally, ok?

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Top
#362805 - 08/28/16 08:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI Modernization [Re: jazzmammal]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2224
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
JJJ, love ya buddy, seriously but what's with all the !!! things?

Just write normally, ok?

Bob

"Normal" is in the eye of the beholder. I wish you would use more of these !!!

Top
#363175 - 08/31/16 06:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8306
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: guitarsonic
hello,

it would be great if you can redesign the GUI. In this state it looks old-fashionned, more like a random collection of functions and is therefore not very productive.

There are great GUI designs out there (Cubase, ...) which you could imitate.

Best regards,

AT Nguyen


It's interesting to note this latest reply from a new independent user where the user states:
"this website seems a bit arcane, unintuitive, and cluttered rather like the GUI of BIAB"

Clearly the user is stating the obvious, well, obvious to me anyway.

Please PG, consider if potential sales are being lost because of this interpretation. Consider if many of the tutorial videos look dated. Consider if potential new customers are dissuaded because of the first impressions (the User Interface).

Please consider a serious re-engineering of the UI. One that really brings it into line with current methods of interface presentation. One that possibly allows 'old users who don't like change' to use it the way they want (no offense, Bob), but opens up potential for new users to be excited, and provides a fresh new modern appearance, and attracts new customers.

Only trying to help.

_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#364333 - 09/07/16 11:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: VideoTrack]
Tom0016 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 14
Quote:


Please consider a serious re-engineering of the UI. One that really brings it into line with current methods of interface presentation. One that possibly allows 'old users who don't like change' to use it the way they want (no offense, Bob), but opens up potential for new users to be excited, and provides a fresh new modern appearance, and attracts new customers.

Only trying to help.



hello users

I am not a forum user really, but read this thread with interest. As a 35-year young casual but long-time user of biab (long for me, perhaps 7-8 years now) I thought I'd chip in a perspective. I write as someone in the UK, not a formal music student but in touch with a number of people who might use BIAB as students, or otherwise be appropriate audiences.

First, I've been so attached to the program I've used it constantly, if irregularly, that I considered creating one of the 'endorsement' videos people have made. However, I realised for all my basic instinctive enthusiasm for BIAB, I felt I'd end up being tempted to implore PG to do a number of the things raised in this thread. I don't think therefore that I'll go the extent of creating a video, but will instead throw in my reflections here.

Yes, the interface is a huge 'turn-off' even as someone relatively seasoned in using it. Especially so because I come to BIAB only once every often, when I have a specific task that I often end up struggling to figure out (e.g. finding a soloist that sounds appropriate to my tune has taken me hours recently). I'll come back to my instinct for what would help, bearing in mind the needs of the different user groups.

To me, the single most glaring oversight, should PG wish to reorientate at all to a younger or unfamiliar crowd, is to explain why the program exists. While it's clear what it can do (e.g. generate backing tracks), and how is does it (e.g. amazing quality realtracks) it's not necessarily obvious WHY you'd want this particularly, it seems to me - or how in various ways the product might be useful to a keen student.

In other words, I would think the videos and other marketing don't adequately answer the question 'What's the point of this product? How will it easily make me a better guitarist/singer'? Demonstrating exciting realtracks does not achieve this goal. Another way I've heard this put is the 'what's in it for me?' test for product description - I think biab could REALLY benefit from a series of vid tutorials showing off how e.g. a guitarist could strangely turn up to a band rehearsal with a new solo already learned for some chords, or a bunch of new rhythmic ideas. For that matter, given that the prog is much a swiss army knife of assisted practice techniques, I wonder what other inventive ways other users have. Would be great to emphaise the variety and creative possibilities I presume are out there (nb. can't claim I have devised creative/advanced ideas myself, but I do find BIAB very helpful to propose ideas to bandmates for example, and this kind of application would be a far stronger selling point than new features. With due respect, I wonder if new feature videos may be even be rather boring to some new or even existing users).

My background is in publishing, both editing text and graphics, and its interesting to consider how BIAB might be approached were it a book going out to market. I'd picture:

- the text content being scrutinzed for errors and consistency
- the text being scrutinzed for ease of use
- visuals being added that enhance the experience of using the content

In BIAB, as a youngish and mobile phone orientated person, there are whole areas I avoid due to its technical language or presentation. BIAB would come back with a lot of comments from our proofreaders. Take the addition of 'Xtrastyles' in the latest version. My issue is this is not a self-evidently descriptive word. It could mean anything really, and therefore is just an arbritary label, meaning its a missed opportunity to guide the user towards a feature (e.g. 'curated realtrack combinations' would do this, albeit in an excessively wordy way).

Same goes for the way the colours and underlining is used to indicate which instruments are 'real' or MIDI, or whether they have notation. In book editing practice, simple is always preferred, and compared to the standards of iPhone and even android apps, the colours/terminology PG has added over the years actually amount to a kind of foreign dialect of software conventions. The inclusion of odd, non-musical terms in the settings menu (like 'ASIO'/'MME' for example), only further force the user to confront alien techy language; personally I've got lost on the audio settings screen more than once, and it's taken days to establish what influence 'latency' and other gremlins might be having. This, I would suggest hugely detracts from the users basic expectation that they can achieve certain goals simply (e.g. record themself soloing over a backing track). And therefore is the stuff that risks causing people to walk away.

Perhaps it's unkind, but I would describe BIAB's visual presentation as 'terrifying'. BIAB has obviously evolved through many iterations, but like any project without a finite end, it risks obscuring the original and inspired ideas behind the product. With each new year, I think, this becomes a greater risk.

For whatever it is or isn't worth, my (yes, unsolicited) recommendations would be:

(in the following sequence)

1. to consider completely suspending development of new features and commit to delivering BIABs huge existing range of possibilites in the most accessible and direct ways possible.
> This could be part product design, part reinvestment in training videos or help functions (but no referring us to the manual, please)

2. to rationalize the primary applications of the product, and reorganise buttons and menus into hierarcies around very simple and basic uses (e.g. creating a backing track, or printing a tune).

3. to commision user experience testing, and to tackle design informed by this but independent of it

4. to embed 'classic' biab into the new design, perhaps with the use of skins, as has been proposed by others.

5. this may seem rather provocative but I even wonder whether 'band in a box' remains the best name for this product. following the principle of more self-evident language, i'd think 'Realband' is now the more descriptive name, and since that product (the existing realband) is bundled, that could simply become e.g. 'Realband Sequencer'. Of course this may be marketing suicide, and alienate many. I can't really comment on that - am just wondering what title might best incite someone in a music shop to take it down from a shelf to look more closely (or by parallel, look more closely online).

This may have seemed an odd way to endorse this product, but I write this much because I think of BIAB as one of the most imaginative and unique ways individuals at home can improve the ability and enjoyment of music. Thank you if you've made it this far. I don't expect to be on the forum regularly, but hopefully the post will suggest there are at least a number of us semi-devout younger people on board. (*although underpresented in the forum, I wonder if as a group we're simply less proactive in terms of posting online).

many thanks to all involved
Tom

London, UK


Edited by Tom0016 (09/07/16 11:35 AM)

Top
#364345 - 09/07/16 12:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17516
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Tom, thank you for this fine comment. You should post more often. In fact, although I'm very proud of my contributions over many years as a BIAB beta tester, I would happily yield my spot to you. Your thoughts are constructive and positive, and come from a perspective of experience and admiration as well as youth.

I will only point out that you might be surprised how many of your suggestions we have already made. There are a few newcomers here who don't seem to believe that, but almost everyone here shares your desire to support the company and help the programs improve.

Please stay active and keep posting.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#364369 - 09/07/16 05:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Tom0016]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8306
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Tom, your objective comments are well articulated and associated with substantial practical reasoning.

It's refreshing to have constructive feedback from less-regular posters, as it demonstrates that the issues are noted and experienced by the broader community.

Thank you again for your constructive comments. Stay around. This level of contribution is well received.

Trevor
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#364383 - 09/07/16 06:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18956
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Personally, I think there are some things PGMusic NEEEDS to hear from younger new users.
It represents the future growth of the company. Sure there are a lot of us old timers around, and we have voiced many of these concerns previously, but
A. We are fading away over time
B. We are not growing the user base at the rate new younger users would
C. We continue to upgrade each year without the new interface

We are devoted and continue to upgrade, which of course has value, but like I said every year we get older and more of us fade away.

I welcome a new interface, and have tinkered with creating skins for RB simply because I want it to look better. At one point this was encouraged then fell away a bit as very few of us tinkered with it.

I agree that simply updating the interface is worth the trade off of having less new features one given year. It could be done once and make BiaB/RB a more enjoyable experience for many years to come.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

Top
#364406 - 09/08/16 01:00 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: rharv]
Tom0016 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 14
thanks Forum, for your welcome. I sense the strength of support for BIAB in these replies alone.

Yes, I'm not exactly surprised to hear these thoughts have been voiced already. Actually I posted partly just to 'let off steam' after a few difficult sessions with the software (but good results in the end!) - but also to voice another 'vote' in favour of the things discussed.

Something else occurred to me after posting yesterday - I was wondering what a rehaul of the interface would really take. Presumably, depending on how ambitious it was, it would be rather fraught to say the least:

a) logically
rethinking priorities in visual design, and the implications of these on other functions

b) logistically
implementing a new design and evaluating components throughout BIAB for consistency with it

c) emotionally
a certain amount of energy required, a certain amount of risk, a certain amount of negotiation and persuasion involved

The above would therefore entail a major project somewhat outside the usual habits established in the upgrade cycle.

> idea: could a kickstarter type campaign be suited to address these requirements? Arugments for it might be:

- funding requirement could be assessed and determined by PG
- those who wish to support BIAB could consider donating:
a) whether just to assist in achieving redesign
b) whether just to re-establish BIAB and invest in its future

- a kickstarter in which PG commissioned this work would also allow them free to continue with their own upgrade cycle or other plans, assuming any developments could be subsumed with a redesign at whatever point in the future.
- kickstarter campaigns, I believe, are self-cancelling (and refunds donors) if money falls short of funding targets. Therefore, this project would be 'non-risk' in the sense that if the target's met it would be executed; otherwise it would be shelved without any lost investment.

I'm 'thinking aloud' in suggesting any of this, so perhaps ignore established upgrade processes PG might be comfortable with or forced to remain with. And perhaps it's been considered already in any case. However it would at least seem to capitalise (ok.. literally) on BIAB's broad and loyal community base - which may be one of its most valuable assets?

thanks -
Tom


Edited by Tom0016 (09/08/16 03:02 AM)

Top
#364408 - 09/08/16 01:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Matt Finley]
Tom0016 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Tom, thank you for this fine comment. You should post more often. In fact, although I'm very proud of my contributions over many years as a BIAB beta tester, I would happily yield my spot to you. Your thoughts are constructive and positive, and come from a perspective of experience and admiration as well as youth.


Hi, Matt - thank you for this comment, how generous.

Certainly, if possible I would be interested in learning more on how beta testing works.

best wishes
Tom

Top
#364451 - 09/08/16 06:54 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17516
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
That idea alone, a kickstarter campaign, would hardly occur to those of us on Medicare!

On occasion, PG Music asks for those interested in being a beta tester to submit a short statement on your musical background and interests. If you send one to me via PM here, I'll pass it along to them. Of course, they might say, Oh No, not another GUI guy... shocked

Here's my quick take on beta testing, though I don't want to go into too much detail here. Beta testing has, for the last few years when we have had one annual release, involved about a week or ten days of high-intensity usage of the upcoming release, reporting whatever didn't work for us. There's lots and lots of downloading huge files and multiple release candidates. We are instructed to use the program as we normally would, and most of us dive into the new features to try those out, too. We listen to the new RealTracks and report if there are errors in the documentation. It's a great and fun job for retirees, though we are not all retired. And then, throughout the year, we get advanced releases prior to the public release updates. Again, we use it normally and report. We also on occasion offer more penetrating comments on topics like the GUI, where those comments will not affect what a prospective customer might see.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#364464 - 09/08/16 07:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: Matt Finley]
Tom0016 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
That idea alone, a kickstarter campaign, would hardly occur to those of us on Medicare!



really? well glad to offer that thought then smile

I'm afraid I don't know much about KS, except that I'm aware as you perhaps will be that they *sometimes* seem to dramatically surpass expectations either in how quickly they can amass a following, or in the total contributions they gather. But, of course they've been around for a while now and someone more knowledgeable would be better positioned to outline any caveats that might be important.

I think I would really enjoy getting stuck into the beta testing, it sounds the perfect excuse to dive into BIAB and whatever project is underway. My only concern is that I might not be able to be available at the precise time of releases, or able to give it the comprehensive testing that would be appropriate (ie a week or 10 days at a time). I'm very grateful for you recommending it however. Well, perhaps we'll see BIAB thrive despite our GUI fears and I'll one day get to enlist anyway ...

cheers
Tom

Top
#364481 - 09/08/16 10:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4021
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Nice thread with some interesting thoughts expressed.

When Kickstarter was mentioned my first thought was, "Why?" PG Music develops their products themselve. A Kickstarter campain would provide extra funding that could be used to hire developers but is that a route PG Music wants to travel?

Imagine this, five contract developers work for a year under the leadership of Dr. Gannon or a PG Music employee to put together a "new" Band-in-a-Box, RealBand, combination of the two or something completely new and different that we haven't even thought about! The product is released but the development team is gone. PG Music support will have to support legacy products and the new.

Software developers have styles just like musicians, songwriters, authors or any other creative work. Knowing the development team and having the developers available for support questions is a huge asset that will be lost by using outside contractors.

Can PG Music afford to retain the team after the Kickstarter funds are depleted? Who knows, not me.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (520) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#364550 - 09/08/16 06:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: band in a box GUI [Re: guitarsonic]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13456
Thanks for the offer, but we don't want a kickstarter project.

This thread is full of helpful suggestions, much appreciated.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

Top
Page 6 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


PG Music News
#TBT - The First Audiophile Edition

A blast from the past... the introduction of the Audiophile Edition with Band-in-a-Box 2008.5!

The first Audiophile purchase included the WAV files for all the RealTracks & RealDrums that were available at that time: RealTracks Sets 1-9 and RealDrums Sets 1-20. It shipped pre-installed on a 250GB USB hard drive - take a look...

Wondering what else was introduced with Band-in-a-Box 2008.5? Click here to see the "Band-in-a-Box 2008.5 New Features List."

RealBand 2018 Interactive Online Upgrade Manual Available!

The newest addition to our Online Manuals support page is the RealBand 2018 New Features Guide!

Just like the other Online Manuals now available on our Support page, this Upgrade Manual can be easily navigated by chapter, or using the main Table of Contents window!

New Interactive Online Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Manual for Mac!

We've added an Online Manuals option to our Support page, where you can access an interactive online Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac User's Guide!

The Online Manual can be easily navigated by chapter, or using the main Table of Contents window! Also available on our Online Manuals page is the PDF files for Band-in-a-Box® 2017-2018 Full manuals & Upgrade manuals.

User Feedback - Run as Administrator

Our Forum is a great resource for all your Band-in-a-Box questions (and a GREAT place to connect with other program users!)

Among the many forums available, we have a User-to-User Tips & Tricks forum - perfect for sharing your own technical tips and tricks for any PG Music product!

Like the recent post by jford: You Should Run BIAB and RealBand As Administrator!

Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest - Over 25 Entries!

We recently launched an Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest with 4 prizes of $150!

So far, there are more than 25 entries! Have a listen to these entries and submit your own song here.

Contest Rules:
-You must own Band-in-a-Box® 2018 along with one or more of the Xtra Styles PAK 5 packages (Country, Jazz, Rock-Pop, MIDI)
-The song you submit must be your own original composition. This could be simply typing in chords to your song and pressing play, but you may also add additional instruments, solo, and/or melody.
-Public domain songs will be accepted.
-Multiple entries are permitted.
-Submit your song to the "Xtra Styles 5 Contest" forum, before the deadline. (This contest runs until September 30th)

For complete information on this contest, click here.

New Online Band-in-a-Box and RealBand Manuals

Do you hate digging around for manuals as much as I do? Now you can access the most recent Band-in-a-Box® and RealBand manuals with just a few clicks on the new Online Manuals section of our website.

The PDF manuals for version 2017 and 2018 are available now. Plus, we're adding online versions of these manuals too! The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Windows User's Guide is complete, and the Mac User's Guide will be coming very soon. We're even adding a search feature to make it even easier for you to find features that you are looking for - stay tuned!

You Could Win $150 PG Bucks with our Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest!

Want to WIN $150 PG Bucks? Join the entries already submitted into our Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest! When the contest closes on September 30th, we will be picking 4 winners (1 per genre)!

What you need:
-Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition
-Xtra Styles PAK 5 Windows | Mac
-a song written using one of the 160+ fully-mixed Styles included in your Xtra Styles PAK 5 purchase.

Complete contest rules list here.

Forum Stats
27964 Members
57 Forums
53937 Topics
445467 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
kikesh, RedVampirePrince, rockmarcus28, Bart Vervaeck, goldensleather

27963 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Alyssa - PG Music 502
David Snyder 146
Al-David 140
MarioD 124
Deryk - PG Music 114
Matt Finley 102
Janice & Bud 102
VideoTrack 97
Jim Fogle 97
Kent - PG Music 91
Today's Birthdays
Helmut Neidig, Pekstrom