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#369001 - 10/07/16 11:15 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist?
Matt Finley Offline
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Apologies if this is common knowledge, but I've never had the time to research UserTracks creation very much. Some posts today got me interested.

For a UserTrack of jazz flugelhorn soloing to be useful to me and perhaps others, I think I would have to make a template of a BIAB song that would best have me record over almost all possible changes and keys. With extensions like b9, #9, 11, 13 and Alt chords and their combinations, in progressions, this would be a pretty long song, wouldn't it? I wouldn't want my style defaulting to playing major, minor, sus, augmented and diminished chords only, but instead get into the upper extensions and modes.

If my assumption is correct, has anyone made such a song template?

Thanks.
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#369007 - 10/07/16 12:33 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
OK, after doing some research and receiving some wonderful tips from Frank (Seeker), I think what I need is a jazz version of this supplied Pop music template:

Pop UserTracks 30 minute template.zip

More detail: In the PG Music tutorial http://www.pgmusic.com/usertracks1.htm they have a Pop 1 minute and a Jazz 1 minute. But for the 10, 20 and 30 minute templates, there is only one for Pop, not for Jazz. The 30-minute Pop template says it has some jazz chords, but I need more extensions (even if the template has to be longer).

Is this a Wishlist item?

Thanks.


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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#369915 - 10/13/16 10:03 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
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You have a good ear Matt, you can chord out a RealTrack Jazz Soloist to create a template:
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=203498
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#370054 - 10/14/16 08:42 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
Matt Finley Offline
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Oh - I see what you mean. Thanks.
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#373355 - 11/06/16 01:18 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
jazzmammal Offline
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This is a very interesting discussion. I think the key to a Soloist RT is the link between a certain phrase and the underlying chord. I've heard some RT Soloists play basic pentatonic phrases over all kinds of complex extensions. Other times there will be something like a Gb9#5 chord and all the soloist does is play one note until the next chord change so obviously there is nothing there that encompasses that chord. This is just an observation, I have no idea how that chord/soloist link actually works.

Many of the midi soloists are much better than the RT soloists except of course for the overall sound quality and live nuances that's missing from midi. But as far as actual notes are concerned the midi soloists really do follow the changes better than the RT soloists do.

I think the reason for that is the file size limitation of the RT's. The RT artist would have to play so many different variations that the file size would be too big while midi can keep scrambling and creating note phrases almost endlessly. I say I think because it's just a guess.

Bob
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#373364 - 11/06/16 02:51 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: jazzmammal]
Pipeline Offline
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RapidComposerLE is great for fitting midi anywhere you like.
It will read the chords from BB Chord Output midi and give you the same chord sheet as BB.





Attachments
RC_Midi_Rearrange.gif (1253 downloads)

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#374575 - 11/16/16 07:04 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I can see a use for that, Pipeline, thanks.

Bob, I believe you understand what I'm asking; the soloist who vamps on a whole note because that particular chord extension wasn't in the song used as a template. I think you are correct based on an early experience I had with RealTracks: I discovered that one piano part didn't know what a minorMajor7 chord was, so every time I wrote that chord, the piano stopped playing for that measure. After I reported it to PG Music, they released a patch and it was fixed. It could have been miscoded, or maybe there really wasn't a recording snippet of that chord type - we don't know.

This is why I originally asked about the need for a jazz template song with all the chord types.
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#385946 - 12/23/16 12:28 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
Tommyc Offline
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Registered: 01/08/11
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I love reading what the smart folk post! I have avoided some chords because of what the soloist played. Great Post

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#386005 - 12/23/16 07:04 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3913
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Matt,

I'm wondering, what if you found a style you believe could be enhanced with a jazz flugelhorn solo and identified the RealTracks used in the style.

Then you could take one of the Realtracks and run ALL the wave files through the Audio Chord Wizard. The Audio Chord Wizard can "build" the chord sheet or at least help you determine what chords that RealTracks instrument provides.

Once you have a chord sheet you can more easily determine what solo is appropriate.
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#387495 - 12/31/16 10:05 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17408
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Thanks, Jim. This is one of many things that fell way down on my to-do list. Perhaps next year.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#431346 - 09/26/17 05:08 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: Matt Finley]
MarkAlan Offline
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Registered: 09/26/17
Posts: 3
For making Jazz User Tracks, please do create a far more complex set of chords. I fell in love with BIAB because it had such a strong emphasis on jazz, salsa, blues, etc. However, making a user track is meaningless, unless the "training" template contains the many variations that you'd find in, e.g. the Jazz Real Books. Without a 9th, maj9th, flatted 9th, etc, one can't really create a useful jazz user track.

Since there's even an excellent video on making your own user tracks, a user gets a sudden disappointment when trying to do so. Since it makes sense to have this done in the same way the Pop User Track Templates were done, please DO get to this (I invested the $1k, & keep it up to date each year). It would make NO sense for each user to create their own TEMPLATE files, since each person who wants to use this feature for Jazz will re-invent the wheel!

The quality of BIAB is now rather impressive; please keep it moving to a better & better product!

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#431384 - 09/27/17 06:53 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: MarkAlan]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
MarkAlan

A great first post and welcome to the forum.

This request might also get better attention in the Wishlist section of the forums.
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#431429 - 09/27/17 02:35 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: VideoTrack]
MarkAlan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/26/17
Posts: 3
Thanks, I posted a very similar item about adding Jazz-specific User Track templates to the User Track Wishlist area. Is this the area you meant? Are there any user-created Jazz User Track Training templates posted elsewhere?

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#431430 - 09/27/17 02:47 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: Does a contemporary jazz soloist template exist? [Re: MarkAlan]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2550
You just need someone with a good ear to load each track from a realtrack jazz instrument into RealBand or Biab then chord each one out and save them as Jazz UserTrack Templates.

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