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#379013 - 12/01/16 07:05 PM [My Favorite Things] +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++
Jim Fogle Online   happy
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3851
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
I have not purchased it yet but I already know the 2017 program updates of Band-in-a-Box and RealBand programs will be my favorite updates.

The reason is very simple; throughout 2016 PG Music made significant strides in fixing bugs and making both RealBand and Band-in-a-Box more stable. 2017 continues that trend while also integrating many program enhancements suggested by forum users.

Seeing forum suggestions implemented demonstrates far better than words that our suggestions have merit.

I'm especially glad to read a lot of work was done to make UserTracks work better. I think UserTracks may become the greatest invention since RealTracks and RealDrums but it can't happen until they perform properly. 2017 may be when the UserTracks puzzle is completed!

I can't wait to start working with the 2017 BiaB and RB programs.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (519) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#379028 - 12/01/16 08:07 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: Jim Fogle]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Good observations, Jim. I'm having a blast with BIAB 2017. And, just as you said, a bunch of my suggestions made it into this version. The system works.
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#379061 - 12/02/16 12:48 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: Jim Fogle]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13319
Loc: Australia
Yep, one suggestion that immediately springs to mind is that insert/delete bars in now available on right-click (Chordsheet) as wished for by JohnJohnJohn.

see this link

Noel
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#379227 - 12/02/16 10:11 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: Jim Fogle]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2173
Yay!!!

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#379407 - 12/02/16 10:12 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: Jim Fogle]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
So simple, yet helpful. Very nice.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#379410 - 12/02/16 11:02 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: Jim Fogle]
SFG Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 57
Have fun guys enjoy smile .., as for me disappointment reins supreme with this 2017 offering frown

..., as I was only hoping to finally see a 64 bit platform introduced , and also an introduction to 24 bit sound samples instead of their antiquated 16 bits on offer.

I can't find a use for this product within the studio 'as is' .., therefore I'm outta here PG , until you can seriously lift your game and get with the times ..., see you in 2018 (maybe)
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My Specs
Computer : Mac Pro (late 2013) - OS Yosemite 10.10.5
Processor : 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
Memory : 64 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 ECC
Graphics : AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB
Interface : Avid Mbox 3 Pro
DAW : Pro Tools 12.6.0 (64 bit AAX)

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#379827 - 12/04/16 10:29 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: SFG]
Jim Fogle Online   happy
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3851
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: SFG
Have fun guys enjoy smile .., as for me disappointment reins supreme with this 2017 offering frown

..., as I was only hoping to finally see a 64 bit platform introduced , and also an introduction to 24 bit sound samples instead of their antiquated 16 bits on offer.

I can't find a use for this product within the studio 'as is' .., therefore I'm outta here PG , until you can seriously lift your game and get with the times ..., see you in 2018 (maybe)


SFG,

I understand your disappointment and agree everyone should make the choice that works best for them.

I made a wishlist request for 24 bit audio a few months back and the request received some discussion but little support. You can read the discussion and add your support to my request ++ HERE ++. I strongly believe upgrading the source material (RealTracks, loops, etc.) will be extremely beneficial to users that use PG Music products to produce commercial products. I also believe everyone else will benefit by gaining about 6 dbFS of additional headroom in our mixes.

The request to upgrade the software applications to add native support to 64 bits has been ongoing for years but nobody has presented reasons that make a compelling case that the upgrade MUST happen now. Perhaps you know a reason why the 64 bit upgrade must happen immediately; ++ HERE ++ is a link to that 64 bit conversation. Peter Gannon indicated the upgrade to 64 bit software applications will happen sometime in the future and I have no reason not to believe him.

Now consider the improvements that you will be missing out on by not upgrading to 2017; the list is available ++ HERE ++ . The majority of these improvements answer user requests; jcspro40 requested Hawaiian RealTracks, I requested a Even/Swing identifier in the control bar, both Radiopoet, mal12345 and I requested a fix for 3/4 time UserTracks and how UserTracks handles special chords like shots or holds. There are many improvements that will just help the programs to work better.

I understand your disappointment. As I indicated I've stated my wish for upgrades that haven't happened yet. However, I plan to continue to use the programs so I am excited about the changes that will make my use of the programs easier.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (519) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#379932 - 12/04/16 04:29 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: Jim Fogle]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13453
We could provide an option in the future, to render the material in 24-bit when rendered.

That might help, especially if your DAW is using 24-bit. To be clear, this wouldn't be 24-bit source material in your Realtracks folders, it would be 24-bit when rendered out of BIAB. The music is already mixed internally in BIAB, RealBand (and other DAWS) using floating point, so bit depth is not an issue.
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Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#379978 - 12/04/16 07:05 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: PeterGannon]
SFG Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 57
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
We could provide an option in the future, to render the material in 24-bit when rendered.

That might help, especially if your DAW is using 24-bit. To be clear, this wouldn't be 24-bit source material in your Realtracks folders, it would be 24-bit when rendered out of BIAB. The music is already mixed internally in BIAB, RealBand (and other DAWS) using floating point, so bit depth is not an issue.


Hi Jim and Peter,
Thank you for your replies .

While I agree BIAB has great features..., I truly believe a 32 bit platform is eons behind a 64 bit platform in terms of performance. 64 bit lets us make full use of our RAM and CPU's

I (personally) have no use for 16 bit recorded tracks , even if they are up converted to 24 bit (which our DAWS currently do when we import them to suit out project rates). One thing I do know is in 2016 I have never heard of a single DAW user choosing to open a new DAW project in 16 bit as the headroom and end result of mixed tracks is atrocious compared to those of 24 bit (industry standard bit rates) or better.

I do fully realise that even if BIAB was now 64 bit platform with all new 24 bit recorded and supplied REAL Tracks ..,
- that the older real tracks that were originally 16 bit and up-converted to 24 bit (to allow them to be included with an upgraded modern BIAB offering) .., then those older 16 bit (but upconverted) real tracks would still retain that 'less pristine' 16 bit quality
>>> But I CAN live with that wink



..., My point is that the NEWLY added tracks would have been True 24 bit , and also those added in the future would be true 24 bit also.


There has to be a turning point to modernisation sometime ...,

- and this turning point is something I notice PG keeps putting off for reasons I cannot understand ,other than laziness ?
- i just don't get it ?

Perhaps the reason is : for most BIAB users the current offering is fine, and is maybe all they will ever need.



My needs are for 24 bit files to only ever be imported into my DAW
..., that can withstand the mixing, twisting , time stretched , chopped , multiple FX added etc, etc ....,
and to still have them retain their quality once they are mixed , mashed, mastered and eventually reduced to 16 bit (as in a CD)
.., and now there is a market emerging to lift that up quality of the music we buy to 24 bit anyway.

For my use - I find files that originated in 16 bits (eg; BIAB) lose too much sound fidelity after all the mixing and mashing that goes on inside a modern DAW , and as Computer power (and data storage) gets cheaper and cheaper there are increasing numbers rapidly jumping into this bandwagon (ie; using DAWS) .

PG needs to realise this and get on board also and look to these new emerging markets, rather than continuing to ignore them.


Edited by SFG (12/05/16 03:05 PM)
Edit Reason: typo's
_________________________
My Specs
Computer : Mac Pro (late 2013) - OS Yosemite 10.10.5
Processor : 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
Memory : 64 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 ECC
Graphics : AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB
Interface : Avid Mbox 3 Pro
DAW : Pro Tools 12.6.0 (64 bit AAX)

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#379985 - 12/04/16 07:55 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: Jim Fogle]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13453
SFG,
You're a Mac user. It is the Windows version that just got released. I'd advise at least hanging around until our next Mac version is released.
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Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#380015 - 12/05/16 01:44 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: PeterGannon]
SFG Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 57
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
SFG,
You're a Mac user. It is the Windows version that just got released. I'd advise at least hanging around until our next Mac version is released.

ah-ha, cheers Peter ..,

I hope I am reading between the lines correctly .., this might mean there could be a change in the weather wink .., fingers crossed.
_________________________
My Specs
Computer : Mac Pro (late 2013) - OS Yosemite 10.10.5
Processor : 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
Memory : 64 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 ECC
Graphics : AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB
Interface : Avid Mbox 3 Pro
DAW : Pro Tools 12.6.0 (64 bit AAX)

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#380137 - 12/05/16 11:38 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: SFG]
Jim Fogle Online   happy
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3851
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
SFG,

It seems you and I share many of the same thoughts about the advancement path Band-in-a-Box should follow. However we express our thoughts differently.

Dr. Gannon,

An option to up-convert exported audio to 24 bits would be nice. Having the option to purchase future audio releases in native 24 bit depth is preferable. Forum user, Zedd, states the reason much better than I can in his response to my ++ wishlist request for 24 bit Audiophile RealTracks ++

Quote:
I would also really appreciate this.

I was just doing tests this past week and importing BIAB tracks into my DAW where I always work at 24bit/48kHz. There is a noticeable degradation of the BIAB bedtracks because the upsampling adds some slur to the tracks. It's not a huge degradation, but some of the crispness is gone.

If I work with them at 16bit/44.1kHz then all of my added guitars, vocals, percussion and any other instruments will be at the lower quality, which I don't want to do, so it becomes a tradeoff.

It would certainly be nice if we didn't have to degrade the quality of the BIAB Audiophile tracks as soon as we're ready to start working with them outside of BIAB.


Edited by Jim Fogle (12/05/16 05:36 PM)
Edit Reason: Add quote and link
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (519) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#380351 - 12/06/16 08:49 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: SFG]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 765
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: SFG
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
SFG,
You're a Mac user. It is the Windows version that just got released. I'd advise at least hanging around until our next Mac version is released.

ah-ha, cheers Peter ..,

I hope I am reading between the lines correctly .., this might mean there could be a change in the weather wink .., fingers crossed.


SFG, if we Mac users are lucky, we may barley get half the features Windows users get.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

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#380409 - 12/06/16 11:19 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: Jim Fogle]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13453
>>> SFG, if we Mac users are lucky, we may barley get half the features Windows users get.


In the past... (sad, but) true. In the last 2 years (and going forward) .... not true! Mac version's caught up, and similar features added to both.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#381153 - 12/09/16 02:07 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: +++ 2017 Program Updates Are My Favorite +++ [Re: SFG]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2508
Yes, that says it all in my experience, I will hand the batton over to you SFG as I'm too worn out from trying n crying for too long for 64 24/48. The best time to start recording in 24bit was 9 years ago the second best time is now.
Well the Mac is ahead in that respect as it can process the 24/48 RTs/RDs as I converted a set over and MacBB used them but WinBB couldn't so Mac might be the first to get the MacBB64 24/48 Audiophile Drive, that will compensate Mac users for what they have been missing smile
The other option, if (is ??) 64 bit is too much of an undertaking, is to have a vst that uses the Band-in-a-Box.app silently in the background to generate up the 24bit tracks direct to disk rather than in ram, that are just dragged into your 64 bit DAW, so it is all done within your DAW quicker than you can get that session player around.
This way it's less off a headache for PG and gives the uses a game changer, until such time as the development of the current 64bit is finished (wishful thinking, I don't know ???).


Originally Posted By: SFG
....
While I agree BIAB has great features..., I truly believe a 32 bit platform is eons behind a 64 bit platform in terms of performance. 64 bit lets us make full use of our RAM and CPU's

I (personally) have no use for 16 bit recorded tracks , even if they are up converted to 24 bit (which our DAWS currently do when we import them to suit out project rates). One thing I do know is in 2016 I have never heard of a single DAW user choosing to open a new DAW project in 16 bit as the headroom and end result of mixed tracks is atrocious compared to those of 24 bit (industry standard bit rates) or better.

I do fully realise that even if BIAB was now 64 bit platform with all new 24 bit recorded and supplied REAL Tracks ..,
- that the older real tracks that were originally 16 bit and up-converted to 24 bit (to allow them to be included with an upgraded modern BIAB offering) .., then those older 16 bit (but upconverted) real tracks would still retain that 'less pristine' 16 bit quality
>>> But I CAN live with that wink

..., My point is that the NEWLY added tracks would have been True 24 bit , and also those added in the future would be true 24 bit also.

There has to be a turning point to modernisation sometime ...,

- and this turning point is something I notice PG keeps putting off for reasons I cannot understand ,other than laziness ?
- i just don't get it ?

Perhaps the reason is : for most BIAB users the current offering is fine, and is maybe all they will ever need.

My needs are for 24 bit files to only ever be imported into my DAW
..., that can withstand the mixing, twisting , time stretched , chopped , multiple FX added etc, etc ....,
and to still have them retain their quality once they are mixed , mashed, mastered and eventually reduced to 16 bit (as in a CD)
.., and now there is a market emerging to lift that up quality of the music we buy to 24 bit anyway.

For my use - I find files that originated in 16 bits (eg; BIAB) lose too much sound fidelity after all the mixing and mashing that goes on inside a modern DAW , and as Computer power (and data storage) gets cheaper and cheaper there are increasing numbers rapidly jumping into this bandwagon (ie; using DAWS) .

PG needs to realise this and get on board also and look to these new emerging markets, rather than continuing to ignore them.

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