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I'm curious what methods people have used, and what they found to be simple, straight forward, etc...
Thanks!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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In the USA AFAIK there is only one way...through the copyright office. Cheaper to register a set rather than one at a time. Your songs are automatically copyrighted when you write them but registering them is how you prove ownership.
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You only need to register your songs with the copyright.gov site when you are ready to sue (ha, ha). Since a collection of songs is as cheap as one song, then that is a good option.
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Yep. You write them you own them. Post it somewhere that date stamps it,e.g. SoundCloud and don't worry unless it's lawsuit time at which point you can copyright them. Some folks mail the song to themselves and don't open the package.
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Just remember, if you want to sue the song MUST be registered at copyright.gov (or so I understand). They are "copyrighted" by you as soon as they are placed on a "tangible" medium. So as soon as you post an original tune here, it is considered copyrighted.
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Yep. You write them you own them. Post it somewhere that date stamps it,e.g. SoundCloud and don't worry unless it's lawsuit time at which point you can copyright them. Some folks mail the song to themselves and don't open the package. The only thing that will stand up in court is a copyright from the government. Don't wait until you want to sue as the other party may have copyrighted it themselves and then you are SOL.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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Thanks for the replies! I guess what I've been doing is the way it should be done. I just feel, every so often, it's best to check your methods. I've had too many times in my life where there was "a better way" after the fact! Thanks all! 
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Yep. You write them you own them. Post it somewhere that date stamps it,e.g. SoundCloud and don't worry unless it's lawsuit time at which point you can copyright them. Some folks mail the song to themselves and don't open the package. The only thing that will stand up in court is a copyright from the government. Don't wait until you want to sue as the other party may have copyrighted it themselves and then you are SOL. According to U.S. copyright law, songwriters own their songs the moment their songs are completed You would simply have to prove via the posted date that you copyrighted the song. When you put "copyright 2016" beside it it is copyrighted. Really that it. You can then register your copyright at the US office if you choose but that is not required for the song to be considered legally copyrighted. So you aren't SOL. Just in for more of a hassle should it be stolen Here's a good perspective. http://www.greatamericansong.com/copyrights.php
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I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?
The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration. That's right from the copyright office.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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>> You would simply have to prove via the posted date that you copyrighted the song
Yes, if you emailed it to yourself at a hosted email like gmail or hotmail, that would be be strong proof of the date that it was sent. Because that couldn't be faked. You could open up the account, and show whoever was interested that gmail or hotmail received the email.
There could be problems with things mailed to your house, because you could mail yourself an unsealed envelope, and then seal it years later, after inserting something after-the-fact.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Hi Ok anyone know the copyright agency in Britan and Ireland?or can people outside USA copyright with .gov ?
Thanks Hugh
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I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?
The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration. That's right from the copyright office. And more right from the same FAQ at the US copyright office "Do I have to register with your office to be protected? No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.” From stopfakes.gov Do I Have to Register My Copyright Claim? Last Published: 7/16/2016 No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright protection exists from the moment the work is created (fixed in a tangible medium). However, registration provides important benefits, such as proof of ownership. In addition, copyright owners who have registered their copyright have additional remedies if their copyright is infringed. Visit the U.S. Copyright Office for details about U.S. copyright law. The key is proof of ownership. If you post a song to to a website with X date then a thief would have to prove that they have an earlier date that can be affixed to the song. Now would it be easier for you to prove them wrong if the song were registered? Perhaps. But the copyright allows you no legal assistance...nothing but readily accessible documentation of the date you registered it. Would that be stronger in a court of law? Beats me. All I've been trying to point out is that the copyright office does not copyright your material. And in this day and age their documentation of registration may be an antiquated mechanism given the multitude of opportunities to affix dates to it via the web.
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From everything I have heard, that whole "mail a copy to yourself" is just a myth and has absolutely no standing in a legal dispute. I think Mario is right about being SOL if you fail to copyright your work and later have to prove ownership. Of course, the odds any most/none of us will ever need this protection!
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And a website provides no proof of copyright! I can post to my own website and then change the date any time I want. I would assume SoundCloud and others can do the same. Really proves nothing.
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From the US government site: "Copyright Protection Is Automatic Under the present copyright law, which became effective January 1, 1978, a work is automatically protected by copyright when it is created. A work is created when it is “fixed” or embodied in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. Neither registration in the Copyright Office nor publication is required for copyright protection under the law." I'm out
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No one is arguing that your work is not automatically copyrighted. It is! Most people know this.
Yet there is still a Very Important Reason serious writers still use copyright registration...because it is MUCH easier to prove ownership when a song is registered with the copyright office.
Disputes involving registered works are settled with a simple letter that includes a copy of the registration. One stamp and a copy. Case closed. Done deal.
On the other hand if someone big stole your song and your only proof of ownership is a letter you mailed yourself, you are still tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars in legal fees away from possibly winning that case!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 12/15/16 02:24 PM.
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I never suggested that a letter was the way to go only that some folks use that method. If you have a song posted at SoundCloud or soundclick or reverbnation or other such sites then in a court of law the infringer would have to show similar evidence of their "ownership" that predates yours or hire a Russian hacker However, if I were writing for commercial interests I'd register them...or at least I would at the point somebody showed any interest. I was only suggesting that there are alternatives ways of recording your date of ownership that are viable but perhaps nowhere as seamless as "real" registration. Heck, at my level I'd be gobsmacked and flabbergasted and flattered if someone attempted to appropriate one of my tunes!
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Heck, at my level I'd be gobsmacked and flabbergasted and flattered if someone attempted to appropriate one of my tunes!
I am with you here Bud. I was relieved to learn that my songs are copyrighted as soon as I upload to the web. With so little time to devote to making music I prefer to spend my time writing the songs. I think too many amateur musicians think that there is someone trawling sites to try and steal their songs while in reality we are much more likely to fade into obscurity that have our songs nicked.
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I think that regardless of what anyone here has posted, myself included, if one is truly interested in copyrighting then they should contact a good lawyer that knows about such things.
I copyrighted every original that Pumping Station Road, a group that I have studio worked with, has written. I doubt very much that anyone is interested in my originals.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Copyright ....
So, to copyright in the USA, the only correct way to do it is through the US Library of Congress. (USLOC) To save money, copyright a group of songs... (2 or more) at the same time and list it as a collection. If an artist then decides to record the song, the publisher will pay for the copyright fees to copyright the song as a single song. When that happens, you have generally signed the song to a publisher and you no longer own the rights anyway.
As far as writing and copyrighting your own stuff.... the collection is the best bet.
However, all that said..... using the mail it to yourself doesn't work or hold up in court, so don't waste your time. Third party registrations and using the time/date stamp of a server works as good as anything short of a full USLOC copyright. USLOC is not a copyright....it's the registration of the copyright. The copyright is created when you first record the song in a tangible form.
Then, there's what I do. I don't copyright my songs. Yeah I use a third party registration site called SONGUARD but I don't bother with copyrights on the songs. Yes I place the symbol on my stuff....because there's an automatic copyright in place when you record the song for the first time.
I figured out that no one is out there wanting to steal my songs. Nope.... as hard as it is to just get someone to listen.... lets be real. So I don't waste money on copyright. I have some songs copyrighted, but they are signed to a publisher and the publisher did all the paperwork and paid the fees.
Of course, if you sleep better at night with copyrights.... get it done.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I love this subject. Songuard. Never heard of that! Cool.
Paul Zollo just published his follow up tome, "More Songwriters on Songwriting"... He interviewed John Prine who talked about mailing himself his first recording (I don't remember if it was reel to reel?, and lyrics), before he was discovered. This was Hello In There, and Donald & Lydia, et al... Wow... He said he'd forgotten about it and it was unopened for 20 years (or something like that). Pretty funny. "The Mailman Delivers."
Paul also interviewed James Taylor and one subject was "Something In the Way She Moves," "Something", and George Harrison. It was pretty cool. JT didn't point a finger, said there were similarities but words are finite and there's nothing new under the sun.
But labels & publishers...$$$....they battled it out for what, 15 years?
Good luck with your letter or email or webpage as Exhibit "A." If there's real money involved, that is not self-proving evidence and you won't find a patent attorney to represent you without a 12-month* retainer.
Sure, the odds are slim, and if someone stole from me I'd probably wear it as a badge of honor.
But.....you know.... $$$$.....
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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I love this subject. Songuard. Never heard of that! Cool.
It comes free with MasterWriter software. At the time, it was a free lifetime service offered when you bought the MasterWriter songwriter's software. Last time I registered a full song (vs short cues) it was still working so I guess they are true to their word. It's not a copyright but it does provide a secure server date of origin.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I love Masterwriter, also; looked at it a few years ago. Powerful! I didn't go with it, I think the annual $ was beyond what I wanted to invest, but it is awesome. (I love a lot of inanimate things, I guess. I should look into that.)
Andy
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Songwriting
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I love Masterwriter, also; looked at it a few years ago. Powerful! I didn't go with it, I think the annual $ was beyond what I wanted to invest, but it is awesome. (I love a lot of inanimate things, I guess. I should look into that.) Yeah I think they went to a subscription plan. I bought mine before they switched and have used it since.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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All the comments about "if someone stole my song I would consider it an honor" yada yada would change VERY quickly if it became a hit & was used in TV shows, movies, etc for years.....and knowing that $$$ was being made for decades after the fact.
Just protect yourselves & get it copyrighted thru the gov in the USA......I have had 3 books since the 80's and don't worry about any of my tracks. I invest in instruments software to create the music, why not protect my interests?
Of course this subject is all IMHO, YMMV, etc etc....
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Heck I can't give 'em away, why would anyone need to steal 'em.
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There's a great "series" of articles on all things copyright on Musician's Unite Website. The author is of course also selling his book, but the series of articles posted (free) is well worth the read. (Administrator if I'm violating a rule, please let me know and I won't do it again, just trying to help out here with the link to the article itself...no spamming here at least not intentionally.) Here's the link to the article: http://www.musiciansunite.com/articles/royalties---oh-the-money-your-music-can-make.html
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Waiting for lawsuits only makes lawyers money.
Register your catalog with the copyright office as it's only a one time expense (I believe around $50.00) then as you write new material you can just add it to your catalog.
This is good as in this biz volume of production matters.
A&R folks don't spend a lot of time just "carefully listening" to a specific song. They spend possibly about 15 seconds then move on to the next submission as they are getting thousands of submission per day if they are a large successful org.
They also troll YouTube, and other sites. So...
If they see consistency, and lot's of songs they can get a better feel for the artist. The large volume says to them that you are producing. In other words lot's of possibilities to make their client money.
It also shows them work ethic...you are putting time in each and every day making new material. This matters as if they do like your submissions and they do well for the client's requirements, that means instead of trolling for new...they are calling you back for more.
Think about it...while we all want to receive our Performance Rights and sync rights royalties...sometimes a given song that maybe you might not be crazy about, can generate a ton of ad revenue for you as a make up for the other songs that may not be "Killing It" on the royalties side. A balance.
Also, with your catalog registered in the copyright office, if someone does try to pirate your intellectual property, instead of doing a "Take Down" or a bunch of letters back and forth, you can go straight to "Hey man, this song is already registered with copyright office, let's make a deal." After all if the pirates biz is generating a ton of money, wouldn't it be better to just negotiate the price in royalties for usage and leave it up and running? It is after all your income.
Perfect example of this is a Little Feat Song called "Let It Roll." release back in the 80's I believe. This band while hugely popular with it's fan base has always had problems with labels not doing enough to keep the energy alive. They released the song, it was a minor hit on radio for a bit but died like a lot of their other songs. BUT... it was picked up by a whole slew of Cable Networks for their original films. (lifetime, and others) so they wound up making a lot of royalties from the sync licensing for the films that were being broadcast everywhere on the different (and often separate networks) channels via cable.
So always do the copyright. No one likes law suits except lawyers.
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Thank you... no brainer, register your catalog with the copyright office and save yourself a world of hassles.
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ad revenue...adsense, affiliate marketing etc.
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Register your catalog with the copyright office as it's only a one time expense (I believe around $50.00) then as you write new material you can just add it to your catalog.
I know you can register single songs and collections of songs but both of those are a one time deal. I've never heard of any sort of "open catalog" where you pay $50 one time and can then "just add....(new material) ... to your catalog" as you write it. Heck I'd have been doing that if it existed. I did look on the LOC website because that would be really cool and a great deal for any writer. I couldn't find it. Please correct me if I'm wrong Also, I've never had anyone other than scammers contact me because of a song on a social media site. All of my contacts and placements that are legit, came from me contacting the library/publisher, and them vetting the quality of my music, then signing it.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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